Best telescope + Camera for solar?

[Datalord]

I've been pondering the virtues of solar observation for quite a while and I think I want to try it out. However, I don't want to do it half-assed, so I need some advice on what great gear combinations I should look at. I don't really have a budget, but I'd probably keep it below £10k.

I will put it on my 10Micron GM2000 mount, so that's not a problem.

Is there anything other than scope and camera I should consider?

Edited March 27, 2021 by Datalord

[Highburymark]

Well - lots of choice of scope/etalons for that investment. Lunt 80 or 100 double stacked. Solarscope SF70 double stacked filters mounted on a refractor of your choice - see pic. Solar Spectrum 0.3A etalon for close up detail. Probably best to avoid Coronado as support lacking due to Meade financial problems. 

[Datalord]

Yes, it's not for lack of choice. That's almost the problem. What I don't want to do is buy something I want to upgrade in 3 months time, so might as well go for proper gear. 

Interesting about coronado, I thought they were a premium brand. 

I'd prefer to get something purpose built instead of modding a different frac. Maybe I'm wrong? 

[Highburymark]

The advantage to modding an existing frac is you can use two larger external etalons, which normally offer more uniform contrast across the fov, compared to smaller internal etalons, which most solar scopes are built around (producing a ‘sweet spot’ rather than more even disc detail). Catch number 1 is they are more expensive. Quite a lot of Lunt scopes combine a small internal etalon with a larger external one - these can be excellent.
Then obviously, more aperture reveals more detail, and allows you to retain sharpness at higher powers. For the money you’re investing, you should be looking at 70mm-100mm double stack, or LS130 single stack. The new Lunt range is modular, so you also get an ED night scope as part of the package.
Catch number 2 is that all etalons are unique and variable, so there will always be exceptions to any rule - both nice exceptions and not so nice ones. I’ve seen 60mm single stack scopes that knock your block off with fine detail, and double stacked scopes of 90/100mm that have left their owners disappointed. But 99% of the time double stacking transforms surface detail and comes highly recommended.
The third option is a rear mounted etalon (Daystar, Solar Spectrum), which can be used with any parent refractor, but these come with high power barlows to work at around F/30, so are mostly used for close up views, and require v good seeing to strut their stuff. They also require heating for 10 minutes before they’re on band, so can’t really be described as ‘grab and go’.
I say this all the time but it bears repeating, all manufacturers of commercial solar etalons produce poor examples. Some more than others. So do your research - Solarchat and Cloudy Nights are particularly useful forums. If you are not able to test the product out first, make sure you buy from a reputable dealer who will take back substandard filters. Hopefully then you’ll end up with a scope that will provide you with decades of enjoyment. There’s nothing in the night sky that in my view compares with the sun in hydrogen alpha - watching our own star changing every day never loses its appeal.

[Highburymark]

I’d missed out on the camera bit of the question. I’m only just starting to learn about solar imaging myself. But for my system (600mm refractor, F/7), the best contender (for both full discs and close ups at F/14 with a 2x Barlow) is an asi1600mm. Others with far more knowledge than me can chime in on best cameras for a Lunt 80 or 100.

[Merlin66]

I use double stacked external Coronado SM60 etalons on my ED80 with a BF15 blocking  filter.

I’ve tried a few cameras and now use the ASI 1600. Works very well for me.

I also use either the Baader x2.25 Hyperion Barlow or the TV x2.5 powermate.

To make tuning of the etalons a bit easier I added a couple of small DC motors and rubber wheels to allow remote adjustment from the office.

Firecapture, AS3! and IMppg for processing.

 

[Datalord]

2 hours ago, Highburymark said:

The advantage to modding an existing frac is you can use two larger external etalons, which normally offer more uniform contrast across the fov, compared to smaller internal etalons, which most solar scopes are built around (producing a ‘sweet spot’ rather than more even disc detail). Catch number 1 is they are more expensive. Quite a lot of Lunt scopes combine a small internal etalon with a larger external one - these can be excellent.
Then obviously, more aperture reveals more detail, and allows you to retain sharpness at higher powers. For the money you’re investing, you should be looking at 70mm-100mm double stack, or LS130 single stack. The new Lunt range is modular, so you also get an ED night scope as part of the package.
Catch number 2 is that all etalons are unique and variable, so there will always be exceptions to any rule - both nice exceptions and not so nice ones. I’ve seen 60mm single stack scopes that knock your block off with fine detail, and double stacked scopes of 90/100mm that have left their owners disappointed. But 99% of the time double stacking transforms surface detail and comes highly recommended.
The third option is a rear mounted etalon (Daystar, Solar Spectrum), which can be used with any parent refractor, but these come with high power barlows to work at around F/30, so are mostly used for close up views, and require v good seeing to strut their stuff. They also require heating for 10 minutes before they’re on band, so can’t really be described as ‘grab and go’.
I say this all the time but it bears repeating, all manufacturers of commercial solar etalons produce poor examples. Some more than others. So do your research - Solarchat and Cloudy Nights are particularly useful forums. If you are not able to test the product out first, make sure you buy from a reputable dealer who will take back substandard filters. Hopefully then you’ll end up with a scope that will provide you with decades of enjoyment. There’s nothing in the night sky that in my view compares with the sun in hydrogen alpha - watching our own star changing every day never loses its appeal.

Thanks, that's a lot to consider.

Being completely blind to the pitfalls, I am close to deciding on a second scope for home use, which would be a 140mm or 160mm refractor. Is it possible to get these external etalons in that size?

[Peter Drew]

I think the largest currently available external etalons are Solarscope 100mm, lunt 100mm and Coronado 90mm.       🙂

[Highburymark]

56 minutes ago, Peter Drew said:

I think the largest currently available external etalons are Solarscope 100mm, lunt 100mm and Coronado 90mm.       🙂

Yes - Peter’s right. A pair of Solarscope 100s would be significantly above a £10k budget. Even two Lunt external 100m filters would be around £14k I believe in the UK. The new Coronado SMIII 90mm DS scope would be the most affordable option with two large external etalons - but as discussed Meade/Coronado’s customer support has been poor, particularly since the financial problems. Not easy, picking the best option. ALSO - if buying two external etalons, you should ask for a matched pair, not just two random filters. Solarscope provides this and does its own testing before the goods are dispatched for more peace of mind.

[Datalord]

I looked more at the DayStar Quantum. Have to say that looks appealing if I can use it with a large refractor I plan to order. 10 min heating time seems like a very small price to pay compared to the 1-2 hours I usually have to cool my nighttime scope.

If I went that route for an f/7 refractor, I would need:

1. DayStar Quantum SE 0.3A

2. Baader E-DRF rejection filter in the right size.

3. Rejection filter holder.

4. Barlow x4 or aperture reducer+barlow

Is that correctly understood? While appealing, experience tells me this will be a whole lot of faff...

 

The alternative is a Lunt LS152. Made for purpose and would cost the same as the above.

Edited March 28, 2021 by Datalord

[inFINNity Deck]

11 hours ago, Highburymark said:

I’d missed out on the camera bit of the question. I’m only just starting to learn about solar imaging myself. But for my system (600mm refractor, F/7), the best contender (for both full discs and close ups at F/14 with a 2x Barlow) is an asi1600mm. Others with far more knowledge than me can chime in on best cameras for a Lunt 80 or 100.

I use a ZWO ASI174MM in combination with my Lunt LS80THA single stack pressure tuner. For details I use a TeleVue 4x PowerMate in between, which results a bit in oversampling, but I had it lying around...

Nicolàs

[Peter Drew]

I have been a Ha solar observer for over 20 years.  I began with a Coronado Helios1 70mm telescope, bought used for £2000, it was the one originally used for Coronado's publicity photos.  When the PST arrived on the scene I was amazed to find that a good one gave very similar performance at the then price of £499.  I purchased a used one and subsequently another to make a PST binoscope which gave wonderful results.  The cost of larger apertures then, as now, gave me no option but to make my own so I joined the early pioneers of PST modding and have made more than 20 in the 100 mm- 150 mm range.  My current PST (Peter's Solar Telescope) is a 150mm F10 optimised for high resolution, high magnification binoviewing.   I have no interest in imaging or full disc viewing, I have a 60mm for the latter if needed.  I have no extra input to the X versus Y "debate",  I have seen excellent and disappointing versions of all makes.     🙂  

[xtreemchaos]

you all know im quarkers and in my view there nothing better for a cheapish close up view/image of the sun. ive just got my quark back from service so hopefully will be back to posting images soon weather permiting 🙂 charl.

[Rusted]

It has almost all been covered by previous posters. Like Peter, I am only interested in "close-ups." Except that I image.

I used a very secondhand 6" f/8, internal 90mm D-ERF, PST etalon, original blocking filter and ASI120MC camera for a couple of years.
Having had more fun, more often, than in all of 5 decades of the dark side, it was time to invest more heavily.

Now I use a 180mm Baader D-ERF, iStar 6" f/10 H-alpha objective, PST etalon, Lunt BF1200S, FT2535 focuser and ASI174MM camera.
I had to make my own main tube but everything else is just screwed together from standard parts.
Since I practically live in my DIY 10' domed observatory during sunny days, the cost per minute has dropped like a stone.

As already mentioned: You need good seeing for close-up images.
Early morning or late afternoon are usually best. Though there is always a chance of lucky seeing.

Your choice of H-a filter will decide the required focal ratio of the donor telescope.
An off-the-shelf H-a scope will have made the choice for you. Buy from a reputable dealer.
Or test a secondhand instrument yourself. Just because a seller belongs to a forum doesn't make them honest!
Be VERY careful of buying anything on UK Buy-Sell without testing it personally!

 

[Highburymark]

12 hours ago, Datalord said:

I looked more at the DayStar Quantum. Have to say that looks appealing if I can use it with a large refractor I plan to order. 10 min heating time seems like a very small price to pay compared to the 1-2 hours I usually have to cool my nighttime scope.

If I went that route for an f/7 refractor, I would need:

1. DayStar Quantum SE 0.3A

2. Baader E-DRF rejection filter in the right size.

3. Rejection filter holder.

4. Barlow x4 or aperture reducer+barlow

Is that correctly understood? While appealing, experience tells me this will be a whole lot of faff...

 

The alternative is a Lunt LS152. Made for purpose and would cost the same as the above.

Personally, I’d look at Solar Spectrum first instead of Daystar - distributed in Europe by Baader. Have a look at the Astrograph website here in the UK - they sell Solar Spectrum. Also have a look at Solarchat (‘commercial filters etc’ forum) - there are some recent reports on there that provide views on quality and reliability of this type of filter. 
 

[Datalord]

51 minutes ago, Highburymark said:

Personally, I’d look at Solar Spectrum first instead of Daystar - distributed in Europe by Baader. Have a look at the Astrograph website here in the UK - they sell Solar Spectrum. Also have a look at Solarchat (‘commercial filters etc’ forum) - there are some recent reports on there that provide views on quality and reliability of this type of filter. 
 

Had a look. Everything is out of stock, so that would have some long wait. And the faff would remain.

I think I'll go the Lunt road. It seems like the easiest way for me to achieve what I want. If it goes pearshaped I can also easier sell it I think.

Thanks everyone!