Eyepieces befitting a Takahashi!

[Nicola Fletcher]

Hi everyone, 

So I recently bought a FC76-DCU, and am slowly accumulating a portable travel setup. I'm thinking of getting a TeleVue 1.25" diagonal for it, and was wondering if you could recommend eyepieces. At the moment I have some BST Starguiders (I used to use them on a 127 Mak that I recently sold) and a Baader Hyperion MKIV zoom, that I use on my 4" Starwave. I'd like some reasonably lightweight, high-quality eyepieces for home and travel. I've been looking at the TeleVue Delite, Nagler and Delos, as well as the Baader Morpheus eyepieces. To be honest, I don't really get a sense of the difference between these, and whether you would recommend one over the other, or something else entirely?

As I am under no illusions about my lack of willpower, and will no doubt add to my Takahashi collection in the future, it would be useful if these could potentially be used on other scopes.

Really appreciate your advice as always!

[dweller25]

This is going to be expensive.......

[dweller25]

But seriously, the eyepieces you have are quite good.

What kind of observing do you do ?

[jetstream]

14 minutes ago, Nicola Fletcher said:

I'm thinking of getting a TeleVue 1.25" diagonal

Baader BBHS,..

15 minutes ago, Nicola Fletcher said:

I'd like some reasonably lightweight, high-quality eyepieces for home and travel

17.3mm Delos to start.

[Nicola Fletcher]

5 minutes ago, dweller25 said:

But seriously, the eyepieces you have are quite good.

What kind of observing do you do ?

I know it won't be cheap, but the Tak has set a new bar 🤩

I like planetary when there are planets to see, but would like to expand to DSOs within the limits of what these scopes will allow. I don't see myself getting anything bigger than the TSA120 so basically 3-5 inch refractors. 

[Nicola Fletcher]

12 minutes ago, jetstream said:

Baader BBHS,..

17.3mm Delos to start.

Thanks - hadn't even looked at the Baader BBHS! Thanks for your advice

[John]

The set that I use with my refractors, which include the Takahashi FC100-DL are:

Panoptic 24mm

Delos 17.3mm

Delos 14mm

Pentax XW 10mm, 7mm, 5mm and 3.5mm

Nagler zoom 2-4mm

Of these, the Delos 17.3mm is probably not really needed because I tend to skip straight from the 24mm Panoptic to the 14mm Delos. The zoom to some extent doubles up on the 3.5mm Pentax XW as well but the versatility of the zoom is very valuable IMHO

There are other choices of course (rather a lot !) but this is where I've ended up and I'm very content with them. My diagonal for the Tak is the Baader T2 Zeiss-standard prism. I mostly use 1.25 inch eyepieces with my refractors and keep the 2 inch ones for the 12 inch dob.

@dweller25 makes a good point though, your current eyepieces are not bad by any means.

 

 

[dweller25]

I use the Baader BBHS Zeiss Prism with T2 connections and it is superb, it also has the advantage of being able to screw in lightweight glass path correctors that act as x1.24, x1.6 or x2.6 multipliers. This would be my first move and I would then re-asses the performance of my current eyepieces.

This may help with the eyepiece choice.

 

Edited March 11, 2021 by dweller25

[Nicola Fletcher]

4 minutes ago, John said:

The set that I use with my refractors, which include the Takahashi FC100-DL are:

Panoptic 24mm

Delos 17.3mm

Delos 14mm

Pentax XW 10mm, 7mm, 5mm and 3.5mm

Nagler zoom 2-4mm

Of these, the Delos 17.3mm is probably not really needed because I tend to skip straight from the 24mm Panoptic to the 14mm Delos. The zoom to some extent doubles up on the 3.5mm Pentax XW as well but the versatility of the zoom is very valuable IMHO

There are other choices of course (rather a lot !) but this is where I've ended up and I'm very content with them. My diagonal for the Tak is the Baader T2 Zeiss-standard prism. I mostly use 1.25 inch eyepieces with my refractors and keep the 2 inch ones for the 12 inch dob.

@dweller25 makes a good point though, your current eyepieces are not bad by any means.

 

 

Thanks - that's great. The Nagler zoom would also complement the Hyperion which is 8-24mm so maybe that would be a good one to start with. I do like the BSTs and have also enjoyed using them with the Starwave, but the Hyperion is a fairly bulky, heavy thing and I wondered if it would be too big for the small Tak. There's a little devil on my shoulder saying I should get better eyepieces for the beautiful Tak too, so I get the most out of the optics....

[Captain Scarlet]

Also consider getting a 45 degree correct-image diagonal/prism, so you can use your scope for terrestrial viewing too. I use one a on my medium-sized scopes for fun during the daytime. The one I have is this: WO 45deg diagonal

Cheers, Magnus

Edited March 11, 2021 by Captain Magenta

[Nicola Fletcher]

9 minutes ago, dweller25 said:

I use the Baader BBHS Zeiss Prism with T2 connections and it is superb, it also has the advantage of being able to screw in lightweight glass path correctors that act as x1.24, x1.6 or x2.6 multipliers. This would be my first move and I would then re-asses the performance of my current eyepieces.

This may help with the eyepiece choice.

 

Excellent, sounds like a plan. That's exactly what I will do. Thank you very much!

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

For my APM 80 mm F/6 triplet (which is actaully a bit more demanding of eyepiece quality given it is faster than the TFC76), when not using the 2" diagonal (something I would really consider getting, it gives a FAR wider FOV), my set either consists of

MaxVision 24 mm 68 deg (works like  a Panoptic 24 at these focal)

Vixen SLV 15, 9 and 5 mm

if I want to travel light, or

MaxVision 24 mm 68 deg

Delos 14 mm

Pentax XW 10, 7 and 5

 

If I do take the 2"diagonal, I replace the 24mm with the Nagler 22 mm T4, or even add the Nagler 31 mm T5 "Panzerfaust". These latter give awesome wide-field views.

[Deadlake]

I'd also take a look at the APM EP's as well, since I know some people (above) use these more then the Ethos equivalents and they are very good value even after the price rises:

e.g. a APM HDC - XWA 20 mm 100° Eyepiece

The Ethos weigh more and stay tucked up so they do not get damaged.

A Nikon 12.5 HW would also be a good choice as well, as a Doctor EP's are hard to source.

With regards to the Baader diagonal, what sort of fields stop did you need to cover (How wide are the EP's you are going to use?). The Baader T2 goes up to 33 mm aperture, so if you are going with a wide EP you will need to step up to the 2" diagonal. The prism will give you less scatter, the mirror will cool down quicker and be better for faster scopes.

Best to plan for the future now on the diagonal or end up like me with both a T2 prism and a 2" BBHS.

You also may want a zoom, I'd wait for this one to be reviewed as people have high hopes for it:

https://www.apm-telescopes.de/en/hot-products/new-apm-super-zoom-eyepiece-7.7-mm-15.4-mm-1.25-connector.html

Ps. Did someone say this is going to cost more then your scope. 😀
 

[Nicola Fletcher]

11 minutes ago, Deadlake said:

I'd also take a look at the APM EP's as well, since I know some people (above) use these more then the Ethos equivalents and they are very good value even after the price rises:

e.g. a APM HDC - XWA 20 mm 100° Eyepiece

The Ethos weigh more and stay tucked up so they do not get damaged.

A Nikon 12.5 HW would also be a good choice as well, as a Doctor EP's are hard to source.

With regards to the Baader diagonal, what sort of fields stop did you need to cover (How wide are the EP's you are going to use?). The Baader T2 goes up to 33 mm aperture, so if you are going with a wide EP you will need to step up to the 2" diagonal. The prism will give you less scatter, the mirror will cool down quicker and be better for faster scopes.

Best to plan for the future now on the diagonal or end up like me with both a T2 prism and a 2" BBHS.

You also may want a zoom, I'd wait for this one to be reviewed as people have high hopes for it:

https://www.apm-telescopes.de/en/hot-products/new-apm-super-zoom-eyepiece-7.7-mm-15.4-mm-1.25-connector.html

Ps. Did someone say this is going to cost more then your scope. 😀
 

Yep - lots of questions here and lots to think about! This is turning into more of a debate about the diagonal which is obviously important to get right before I decide on eyepieces. Do I really want to go for a 2" considering that one of the big advantages of the FC76 is its portability? I totally understand that the FOV will be far wider as @michael.h.f.wilkinson says, but to be honest I was thinking of sticking with 1.25" for this, getting eyepieces that can preferably also be used with 2" diagonals, and maybe going for a 2" when I go for a bigger scope? 

In terms of how wide the EPs are that I want to use, the 24mm Panoptic has been mentioned here and seems to be used by others with this and the 100mm Taks. Planning for the future is a great idea, but is it possible since it seems I have two different requirements, a fairly lightweight setup with the FC76, yet futureproofing this investment to allow me to use the kit with bigger scopes at home in the future?

I may be asking for too much here!

[Deadlake]

1 minute ago, Nicola Fletcher said:

Yep - lots of questions here and lots to think about! This is turning into more of a debate about the diagonal which is obviously important to get right before I decide on eyepieces. Do I really want to go for a 2" considering that one of the big advantages of the FC76 is its portability? I totally understand that the FOV will be far wider as @michael.h.f.wilkinson says, but to be honest I was thinking of sticking with 1.25" for this, getting eyepieces that can preferably also be used with 2" diagonals, and maybe going for a 2" when I go for a bigger scope? 

In terms of how wide the EPs are that I want to use, the 24mm Panoptic has been mentioned here and seems to be used by others with this and the 100mm Taks. Planning for the future is a great idea, but is it possible since it seems I have two different requirements, a fairly lightweight setup with the FC76, yet futureproofing this investment to allow me to use the kit with bigger scopes at home in the future?

I may be asking for too much here!

It is the field stop of the EP, not the size of the scope that governs which diagonal to use. I have a SD103S which is light weight, however to use wide field EP's a 2" BBHS is the way to go.

An Ethos 21 is not a lightweight EP for instance. 🤣

The T2 Baader is good for Bino's as it has a short light path, so having both is not a waste, you may have to get one anyway

Dan has a great spread sheet over at CN (pinned to the top of the eyepiece section) which can be used to calculate the field stops, that way you know if you are covered.

The sheet is also good to show the eye relief of EP's you are looking at.
 

[jetstream]

39 minutes ago, Deadlake said:

A Nikon 12.5 HW would also be a good choice as well

These are excellent but big and with a brutally stupid eyecup and top cap design.

[Deadlake]

Just now, jetstream said:

These are excellent but big and with a brutally stupid eyecup and top cap design.

The Apollo 11 are a little smaller and more expensive. Yeah, the eye cap is a little silly on the 12.5 HW. I'd take the Doctor (good for a Bino use),  if I could get one, you selling Gerry. 😀

[jetstream]

16 minutes ago, Nicola Fletcher said:

I may be asking for too much here!

No, you are on the right track.

I use the must have 3-6 Nagler zoom a lot in refractors- I think the 2-4mm is still available. I don't like the weight of low power 100 deg EP's in the fracs, just me.

[jetstream]

Just now, Deadlake said:

The Apollo 11 are a little smaller and more expensive. Yeah, the eye cap is a little silly on the 12.5 HW. I'd take the Doctor (good for a Bino use),  if I could get one, you selling Gerry. 😀

Its really too bad this EP has been discontinued- its the only " orthoscopic" widefield around IMHO. I gotta keep it!

[Louis D]

1 hour ago, Nicola Fletcher said:

I like planetary when there are planets to see, but would like to expand to DSOs within the limits of what these scopes will allow. I don't see myself getting anything bigger than the TSA120 so basically 3-5 inch refractors. 

Then I would invest in a binoviewer.  Even the entry level units are quite good.  I saw far more detail on Mars during this latest opposition with my Arcturus binoviewer and two 50 year old B&L microscope eyepieces than with any of my XL, XW, Delos, or Morpheus eyepieces in mono mode.  There's no substitute for using two eyes to pick out low contrast, fine detail.

[Deadlake]

20 minutes ago, Louis D said:

Then I would invest in a binoviewer.  Even the entry level units are quite good.  I saw far more detail on Mars during this latest opposition with my Arcturus binoviewer and two 50 year old B&L microscope eyepieces than with any of my XL, XW, Delos, or Morpheus eyepieces in mono mode.  There's no substitute for using two eyes to pick out low contrast, fine detail.

DSO's, aperture 76 mm. Presume you are thinking about travelling as you will need all the light you can get?

[JeremyS]

My lightweight ancillaries for my Tak FC 76 DCU in airline portable mode focus on 1.25 inch.

I use the Tak prism diagonal which is lightweight and has short light path. then a Panoptico 24, Nagler 13 and Televue Zoom 3 to 6 mm. I have other eyepieces, but this is my minimal set.

[Louis D]

27 minutes ago, Deadlake said:

DSO's, aperture 76 mm. Presume you are thinking about travelling as you will need all the light you can get?

Small DSOs like globular clusters look really poor in ~75mm scopes.  There's simply not enough resolution to resolve them at 200x and above in my experience.

[Nicola Fletcher]

@JeremyS do you find the Tak prism good? It seems to have mixed reviews online. I thought the TeleVue Everbright might be a step up from it but the feedback here seems to be overwhelmingly in support of the Baader T2 Zeiss prism. The Tak prism would definitely fit (a nice advantage!).

I agree, I had intended on 1.25 inch for travelling. I like the idea of the Baader BBHS Zeiss prism as you can use it as a 2" or 1.25" setup which would expand the potential for future use with 2" EPs or indeed on another scope. 

This setup looks cool: https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/662918-takahashi-fc-76-dcu-vs-fc-76-ds-which-would-you-prefer-for-visual-observation/?p=9397436

The Baader T2 system looks heavier and is undoubtedly more expensive, but I can definitely see the advantages. 

@John is this the same as yours? https://www.firstlightoptics.com/diagonals/baader-t-2-bbhs-mirror-star-diagonal.html Would you mind sharing the other bits and pieces I would need, as the FC76-DCU has a 1.25" optical back and would therefore need an adaptor I think.

 

[John]

51 minutes ago, Nicola Fletcher said:

 

@John is this the same as yours? https://www.firstlightoptics.com/diagonals/baader-t-2-bbhs-mirror-star-diagonal.html Would you mind sharing the other bits and pieces I would need, as the FC76-DCU has a 1.25" optical back and would therefore need an adaptor I think.

 

Yes, that is the diagonal. I currently use it with the Baader click lock 1.25 inch eyepiece holder, a 15mm T2 extension to ensure that my longest eyepiece barrel does not contact the prism and on the scope side a T2 - 1.25 inch push fit adapter. Links below. I have used this diagonal in 2 inch mode with a 2 inch eyepiece holder and a 2 inch push fit adapter but currently I find that I just use 1.25 inch eyepieces with my Tak refractor.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/adapters/baader-click-lock-125-inch-eyepiece-adapter-with-t-2-thread.html

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/adapters/baader-t2-extension-tube.html

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/diagonals/baader-nosepiece-125-t2.html

I owned the Tele Vue 1.25 inch dielectric for a while and still have a couple of the 2 inch versions with other refractors. Very nicely made mirror diagonals. I didn't get a chance to compare it (the 1.25 inch) with the Baader prism though. In all honesty I can't see much in the way of performance difference between the Baader prism and my 2 inch Tele Vue and Astro Physics diagonals but that's probably just me

I like the T2 prism diagonal on the Tak because it seems to suit the slender lines of the scope !

 

Edited March 11, 2021 by John