AZ GTI and wedge for portable imaging and visual set up?

[Shimrod]

I want to get a smaller, portable imaging set up for travel, and to take advantage of those short breaks in the cloud when it might not be practical to get my AVX out. The idea is to have everything set  up so I can just carry out the tripod/mount with one hand, and the camera with the other.

I have been looking at the Skyguider/Skytracker options, but neither has any goto facility which I really need in my light polluted skies. The AZ GTI  doesn't seem to be much bigger and will also work with a wedge. Using the AZ GTI without the wedge looks like I might be able to get away with my 80ed as a visual setup if I restrict myself to 1.25" diagonal and eyepieces. Using the wedge would support imaging with either my DSLR or ASI533 with Canon lens - and probable excuse to buy another, smaller widefield telescope in the future.

I'd appreciate any comments on which wedge might be best to use and any other portable mount options I should consider. Budget is around £400 for mount and wedge - I already have a suitable tripod.

thanks

[Space Oddities]

The AZ-GTi is a very capable little mount! This is my main mount for visual, planetary imaging and deep sky imaging with a wedge. It has a few quirks of course, but for a £250 mount that has go-to and fits in a backpack... it's one of a kind!  

For the wedge, you have 2 options mainly:

• The iOptron or Sky-Watcher wedge, that they sell for their respective mounts. They're cheap and they do the job! 
• The William Optics one. It's 3x the price of the Sky-Watcher... But probably 3x better too. It's very solid and heavier, but IMO a big step up from the iOptron one I used previously. Probably the same with the Sky-Watcher one.

There are a few accessories that I would recommend:

• The ADM saddle (the default one will drill holes in your dovetail bar...): https://www.firstlightoptics.com/adm-replacement-saddles/adm-dual-dovetail-adaptor-for-az-gti.html
• A counterweight. In EQ mode, it really helps, even with just a DSLR and lens. It might also bring more stability with a 80ED in visual mode, since it's not far from the payload limit. The AZ-GTi accepts M12 shafts, and I've been told the one from the EQ1/EQ2 fits. I personally use the counterweight from the Star Adventurer, but you'll need a M8-M12 adapter to be able to attach it to the mount. Otherwise, any M12 shaft from your hardware store will work fine!

Also keep in mind this little mount wasn't meant to be polar aligned in the first place. Luckily though, there are many ways to do it:

• The polar alignment routine in the SynScan smartphone app
• An external polar scope (either mounted as a DIY hack, or using this very cool accessory from Artesky and a separate polar scope)
• With a Pole Master. The accessory from Artesky above is compatible with it.
• Via your main or guide camera and a dedicated software. I'm using my guide scope and ASIAIR to do it, and it works great!

One last comment: if you have ZWO or Canon gear, I think this little mount really starts to shine when you pair it with an ASIAIR. This allows you to leave the laptop at home, and still have the possibility to polar align precisely, auto guide, and plate solve, with just your smartphone or tablet  Really handy!

[Adam J]

1 hour ago, Shimrod said:

I want to get a smaller, portable imaging set up for travel, and to take advantage of those short breaks in the cloud when it might not be practical to get my AVX out. The idea is to have everything set  up so I can just carry out the tripod/mount with one hand, and the camera with the other.

I have been looking at the Skyguider/Skytracker options, but neither has any goto facility which I really need in my light polluted skies. The AZ GTI  doesn't seem to be much bigger and will also work with a wedge. Using the AZ GTI without the wedge looks like I might be able to get away with my 80ed as a visual setup if I restrict myself to 1.25" diagonal and eyepieces. Using the wedge would support imaging with either my DSLR or ASI533 with Canon lens - and probable excuse to buy another, smaller widefield telescope in the future.

I'd appreciate any comments on which wedge might be best to use and any other portable mount options I should consider. Budget is around £400 for mount and wedge - I already have a suitable tripod.

thanks

Depends on how heavy your setup is, i am using the skywatcher wedge and it seems to be fine with a 3.5kg payload on it. I can consistently get a "good" polar alignment as measured by sharpcap when using it. Achieving excellent is more of an issue due to backlash in the Altitude adjustment but in my experience there is very little practical benefit going from good to excellent anyhow. 

The thing to watch out for with the WO wedge is it has a limited range of altitude adjustment that will be an issue if you want to travel to exotic locations with your kit. 

Adam

Edited March 11, 2021 by Adam J

[Shimrod]

6 minutes ago, Space Oddities said:

The AZ-GTi is a very capable little mount! This is my main mount for visual, planetary imaging and deep sky imaging with a wedge. It has a few quirks of course, but for a £250 mount that has go-to and fits in a backpack... it's one of a kind!  

For the wedge, you have 2 options mainly:

• The iOptron or Sky-Watcher wedge, that they sell for their respective mounts. They're cheap and they do the job! 
• The William Optics one. It's 3x the price of the Sky-Watcher... But probably 3x better too. It's very solid and heavier, but IMO a big step up from the iOptron one I used previously. Probably the same with the Sky-Watcher one.

There are a few accessories that I would recommend:

• The ADM saddle (the default one will drill holes in your dovetail bar...): https://www.firstlightoptics.com/adm-replacement-saddles/adm-dual-dovetail-adaptor-for-az-gti.html
• A counterweight. In EQ mode, it really helps, even with just a DSLR and lens. It might also bring more stability with a 80ED in visual mode, since it's not far from the payload limit. The AZ-GTi accepts M12 shafts, and I've been told the one from the EQ1/EQ2 fits. I personally use the counterweight from the Star Adventurer, but you'll need a M8-M12 adapter to be able to attach it to the mount. Otherwise, any M12 shaft from your hardware store will work fine!

Also keep in mind this little mount wasn't meant to be polar aligned in the first place. Luckily though, there are many ways to do it:

• The polar alignment routine in the SynScan smartphone app
• An external polar scope (either mounted as a DIY hack, or using this very cool accessory from Artesky and a separate polar scope)
• With a Pole Master. The accessory from Artesky above is compatible with it.
• Via your main or guide camera and a dedicated software. I'm using my guide scope and ASIAIR to do it, and it works great!

One last comment: if you have ZWO or Canon gear, I think this little mount really starts to shine when you pair it with an ASIAIR. This allows you to leave the laptop at home, and still have the possibility to polar align precisely, auto guide, and plate solve, with just your smartphone or tablet  Really handy!

 

Thanks, some useful information there. I have an ipolar so was wondering whether I could get that to fit in someway. I'm avoiding an ASIAIR at the moment because I have an electronic focuser on my AVX which the ASIAIR won't control and I don't want to change it - I also have a standalone guider so the ASIAIR would mean more spend to replace existing accessories.

I've also just been looking at the Ioptron Smartstar Cube which has similar specifications, but with GPS. The AZ GTI does have the advantage of being in stock at the moment, and seems to be much more widely used.

[Shimrod]

2 minutes ago, Adam J said:

Depends on how heavy your setup is, i am using the skywatcher wedge and it seems to be fine with a 3.5kg payload on it. I can consistently get a "good" polar alignment as measured by sharpcap when using it. Achieving excellent is more of an issue due to backlash in the Altitude adjustment but in my experience there is very little practical benefit going from good to excellent anyhow. 

The thing to watch out for with the WO wedge is it has a limited range of altitude adjustment that will be an issue if you want to travel to exotic locations with your kit. 

Adam

I would like this to be a small, quick carry out set - for the garden, but we also for weekends away when we can travel again and taking a larger set up is not practical. I'd like to keep this as light and simple as possible - I have a tablet laptop I could use if I can fit the ipolar to the mount, but for my ASI533 was going to try out the ZWO android app for 'standalone' imaging - otherwise restrict myself to my DSLR.

In terms of location, outside my home location I would be taking it up near Aberdeen (family) and ideally to Iceland (annual aurora hunting).

[Adam J]

7 minutes ago, Shimrod said:

I would like this to be a small, quick carry out set - for the garden, but we also for weekends away when we can travel again and taking a larger set up is not practical. I'd like to keep this as light and simple as possible - I have a tablet laptop I could use if I can fit the ipolar to the mount, but for my ASI533 was going to try out the ZWO android app for 'standalone' imaging - otherwise restrict myself to my DSLR.

In terms of location, outside my home location I would be taking it up near Aberdeen (family) and ideally to Iceland (annual aurora hunting).

The SW has a big range or motion, so no worried with that. For the other two I would check that Iceland is not getting too high. But in general the bigger problems happen close to the equator when you will need a pier extension even with the SW to prevent things from hitting the tripod legs. 

I would say the 80ED is fine visually but for AP its going to be too heavy for the AZ GTI. 

Adam

Edited March 11, 2021 by Adam J

[Space Oddities]

16 minutes ago, Adam J said:

The thing to watch out for with the WO wedge is it has a limited range of altitude adjustment that will be an issue if you want to travel to exotic locations with your kit. 

Adam

Actually the "high" and "low" version of the wedge are nearly identical, and you can actually convert the "low" into a "high" (or vice versa) by unscrewing something   Which is super handy, you just need to convert it before your trip, and you're all set.

The only thing is that you won't be able to use the printed latitude anymore, but that's not a big deal. I actually never use this scale and just eyeball Polaris, or use the live view to aim!

The conversion is explained in this video below (around 2:00):

 

[Space Oddities]

23 minutes ago, Shimrod said:

 

Thanks, some useful information there. I have an ipolar so was wondering whether I could get that to fit in someway. I'm avoiding an ASIAIR at the moment because I have an electronic focuser on my AVX which the ASIAIR won't control and I don't want to change it - I also have a standalone guider so the ASIAIR would mean more spend to replace existing accessories.

I've also just been looking at the Ioptron Smartstar Cube which has similar specifications, but with GPS. The AZ GTI does have the advantage of being in stock at the moment, and seems to be much more widely used.

For the iPolar, perhaps you could DIY something. I think that's the only way to mount an iPolar.

Someone in the AZ-GTi Facebook group I'm following posted the picture below, where you can see he installed an iPolar. It's a rather extreme modification for sure, but that gives you an idea of how to position the iPolar. 

 

A simple way to attach it would be to mount an L shaped plate on the side of the mount, perhaps where it's written "Freedom Find". And bolt the iPolar to that L plate. A lot of people actually do this to mount a polar scope on the side. But that requires opening the mount and perhaps drilling a couple holes.

Another way would be to use a flat plate, that you place between the bottom of the mount and the polar wedge's saddle. It would need to be long enough, so that when the mount rotates along the RA axis, it doesn't bump into the iPolar and your wedge. Similarly to this adapter below: 

Other people found ingenuous ways to mount a polar scope:

[Shimrod]

2 hours ago, Space Oddities said:

For the iPolar, perhaps you could DIY something. I think that's the only way to mount an iPolar.

Someone in the AZ-GTi Facebook group I'm following posted the picture below, where you can see he installed an iPolar. It's a rather extreme modification for sure, but that gives you an idea of how to position the iPolar. 

 

 

A simple way to attach it would be to mount an L shaped plate on the side of the mount, perhaps where it's written "Freedom Find". And bolt the iPolar to that L plate. A lot of people actually do this to mount a polar scope on the side. But that requires opening the mount and perhaps drilling a couple holes.

Another way would be to use a flat plate, that you place between the bottom of the mount and the polar wedge's saddle. It would need to be long enough, so that when the mount rotates along the RA axis, it doesn't bump into the iPolar and your wedge. Similarly to this adapter below: 

 

Other people found ingenuous ways to mount a polar scope:

 

 

Those modifications look a bit brutal to me, and I'd be reluctant to do any on mount while it is under warranty. I noticed Altair Astro have a bracket for mounting the ipolar on a scope ring or dovetail, but they only sell it packaged with the ipolar itself. I think a bit more research is called for!

[Shimrod]

2 hours ago, Adam J said:

The SW has a big range or motion, so no worried with that. For the other two I would check that Iceland is not getting too high. But in general the bigger problems happen close to the equator when you will need a pier extension even with the SW to prevent things from hitting the tripod legs. 

I would say the 80ED is fine visually but for AP its going to be too heavy for the AZ GTI. 

Adam

I was thinking 80ed in Alt-Az for visual, and with the DSLR or ASI533 attached to a Canon lens. I already have the appropriate adapters to use the ASI533 with my lenses. I had read somewhere (on here I think) that someone damaged the gearing on the AZ GTI using it in EQ mode at the maximum 5Kg payload - which the 80ed would be very close to reaching.

[Adam J]

1 minute ago, Shimrod said:

I was thinking 80ed in Alt-Az for visual, and with the DSLR or ASI533 attached to a Canon lens. I already have the appropriate adapters to use the ASI533 with my lenses. I had read somewhere (on here I think) that someone damaged the gearing on the AZ GTI using it in EQ mode at the maximum 5Kg payload - which the 80ed would be very close to reaching.

Huum I would think its more the motor and motor controller that would have sufficient torque to and become damaged. The gears themselves are quite substantial and I would find it difficult to imagine that a 5kg payload would cause issues. 

An ASI533 and Lens of up to aboout 300mm focal length should be easily handled. 

Adam 

[Adam J]

7 minutes ago, Shimrod said:

Those modifications look a bit brutal to me, and I'd be reluctant to do any on mount while it is under warranty. I noticed Altair Astro have a bracket for mounting the ipolar on a scope ring or dovetail, but they only sell it packaged with the ipolar itself. I think a bit more research is called for!

I just use sharpcap polar alignment its much cheaper than a ipolar even if you need to buy a guide scope and camera. Also that way you also have a guide scope and camera. 

[Space Oddities]

1 hour ago, Shimrod said:

Those modifications look a bit brutal to me, and I'd be reluctant to do any on mount while it is under warranty. I noticed Altair Astro have a bracket for mounting the ipolar on a scope ring or dovetail, but they only sell it packaged with the ipolar itself. I think a bit more research is called for!

They actually sell this clamp separately: https://www.altairastro.com/altair-gpcam-photo-tripod-clamp-25-p.asp

It has a 1.25" inner diameter. If your iPolar has the same diameter, it should be compatible, but from what I remember from mine, I think the diameter is less than 1.25". And judging by the product pictures of your link, it seems they inserted some kind of black ring, probably 3D printed, between the clamp and the iPolar itself.

I agree with Adam though, you could use your ASI533 to polar align the mount with SharpCap. It's even cheaper than the clamp itself, and probably as precise!

[StevieDvd]

32 minutes ago, Space Oddities said:

They actually sell this clamp separately: https://www.altairastro.com/altair-gpcam-photo-tripod-clamp-25-p.asp

It has a 1.25" inner diameter. If your iPolar has the same diameter, it should be compatible, but from what I remember from mine, I think the diameter is less than 1.25". And judging by the product pictures of your link, it seems they inserted some kind of black ring, probably 3D printed, between the clamp and the iPolar itself.

I agree with Adam though, you could use your ASI533 to polar align the mount with SharpCap. It's even cheaper than the clamp itself, and probably as precise!

That Altair clamp does take a 1.25"  camera - I just fitted a QHY 5-II to mine to check for you. The one I purchased came with 2 small rings, each with 3 grub screws, which I presume allow you to let the camera rotate.

[Shimrod]

54 minutes ago, StevieDvd said:

That Altair clamp does take a 1.25"  camera - I just fitted a QHY 5-II to mine to check for you. The one I purchased came with 2 small rings, each with 3 grub screws, which I presume allow you to let the camera rotate.

Now I have a quandry - I thought the AZ GTI was in stock at FLO - and it is, but only has a tripod, pier and mount package. I really only want to buy the mount. Do I spend the extra now or wait...it would still be within budget, but the extra cost is a 'wedge' of cash.

[StevieDvd]

7 minutes ago, Shimrod said:

Now I have a quandry - I thought the AZ GTI was in stock at FLO - and it is, but only has a tripod, pier and mount package. I really only want to buy the mount. Do I spend the extra now or wait...it would still be within budget, but the extra cost is a 'wedge' of cash.

You could try https://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/skywatcher-az-gti-wifi-goto-az-mount-head-only.html it says low stock.

or

https://www.widescreen-centre.co.uk/sky-watcher-az-gti-wifi-go-to-alt-azimuth-mount.html select button for mount only.

And if you need it, the extra wedge is a 'cost' of cash. 🙂

 

[Shimrod]

15 minutes ago, StevieDvd said:

You could try https://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/skywatcher-az-gti-wifi-goto-az-mount-head-only.html it says low stock.

or

https://www.widescreen-centre.co.uk/sky-watcher-az-gti-wifi-go-to-alt-azimuth-mount.html select button for mount only.

And if you need it, the extra wedge is a 'cost' of cash. 🙂

 

Thanks, I thought I had checked widescreen centre - a quick rumage through the in-stock wedge options and I'll order.

I won't shop at Rother Valley as I found them quite rude and unhelpful when I was getting back into this hobby a couple of years ago. I know other people have had good experiences with them but it was a very poor first impression.

[StevieDvd]

Not had any problems myself but those were the only ones seemingly with stock from those I checked.

[ScouseSpaceCadet]

42 minutes ago, Shimrod said:

Now I have a quandry - I thought the AZ GTI was in stock at FLO - and it is, but only has a tripod, pier and mount package. I really only want to buy the mount. Do I spend the extra now or wait...it would still be within budget, but the extra cost is a 'wedge' of cash.

Ask FLO if they will split the package. It's not unheard of.

 

[Shimrod]

So I've ordered the mount - I went for the full package with extension pier and tripod from FLO so I can leave everything set up at home . I'll tripod share when I'm traveling abroad. I was going to buy the Williams Optics wedge but it doesn't seem to be suitable for Iceland (which is 63+ degrees north), so I have ordered the Skywatcher wedge from Amazon US which should be with me in about 10 days. Just need to sort out something for the counterweight now.

[StevieDvd]

11 hours ago, Shimrod said:

So I've ordered the mount - I went for the full package with extension pier and tripod from FLO so I can leave everything set up at home . I'll tripod share when I'm traveling abroad. I was going to buy the Williams Optics wedge but it doesn't seem to be suitable for Iceland (which is 63+ degrees north), so I have ordered the Skywatcher wedge from Amazon US which should be with me in about 10 days. Just need to sort out something for the counterweight now.

The WO wedge comes in 2 'packaged' versions, differing in the latitude settings. Though they are both the same just assembled for instant use,  takes a few minutes to dis-assemble/re-assemble  to change one to the other.

Why USA for the Skywatcher version - thought they were available here in stock?

Counterweight a few people use counterweight kit first link I found. May need a thread reducer (mine was already fitted as I bought a used setup).

[Shimrod]

3 minutes ago, StevieDvd said:

The WO wedge comes in 2 'packaged' versions, differing in the latitude settings. Though they are both the same just assembled for instant use,  takes a few minutes to dis-assemble/re-assemble  to change one to the other.

Why USA for the Skywatcher version - thought they were available here in stock?

Counterweight a few people use counterweight kit first link I found. May need a thread reducer (mine was already fitted as I bought a used setup).

The Williams Optics wedge comes in a low and high latitude version, but even the high latitude only goes to 60 degrees. I couldn't find any references to people successfully using it at higher latitudes so I've gone for the safer (and lighter) option.

I couldn't find the Skywatcher wedge available standalone (except for overpriced items on ebay and one shop), although a number of places did have the full star adventurer package in stock.  The wedge was £60 delivered ordered through amazon.co.uk although it is sold by Amazon US and has a delivery time of around 10 days.

[StevieDvd]

22 minutes ago, Shimrod said:

The Williams Optics wedge comes in a low and high latitude version, but even the high latitude only goes to 60 degrees. I couldn't find any references to people successfully using it at higher latitudes so I've gone for the safer (and lighter) option.

I couldn't find the Skywatcher wedge available standalone (except for overpriced items on ebay and one shop), although a number of places did have the full star adventurer package in stock.  The wedge was £60 delivered ordered through amazon.co.uk although it is sold by Amazon US and has a delivery time of around 10 days.

OK good call on the wedge then, did not realise Amazon did US stock like that. Does that include taxes, duties etc?

[Shimrod]

7 minutes ago, StevieDvd said:

OK good call on the wedge then, did not realise Amazon did US stock like that. Does that include taxes, duties etc?

Includes taxes and duties. Includes delivery as well even without prime. You can pay for faster delivery, but that's another £15 - I'm happy to wait 10 days, and having Prime doesn't get it here any quicker.

[Shimrod]

On 11/03/2021 at 15:37, Adam J said:

Huum I would think its more the motor and motor controller that would have sufficient torque to and become damaged. The gears themselves are quite substantial and I would find it difficult to imagine that a 5kg payload would cause issues. 

An ASI533 and Lens of up to aboout 300mm focal length should be easily handled. 

Adam 

I came across the post again today while looking for counterweight options - it was the clutch that failed with a Mak 127 in EQ mode.