Starcharts for at the telescope

[Waddensky]

*double post*

Edited March 6, 2021 by Waddensky

[wibblefish]

18 hours ago, SuburbanMak said:

Reached a similar conclusion today after squinting at Sky Safari these past months & have ordered the Cambridge Atlas - Herschel objects edition.
 

Getting more analogue by the day, carry on like this and I’ll be sketching before long...

I would like to do sketching at the telescope actually at some point but waiting for my Orion Astro Lamp to arrive 🧙‍♂️

Apparently my books will arrive on 11th March pretty quick turnaround 😀 Exciting!

[SuburbanMak]

On 03/03/2021 at 19:57, ScouseSpaceCadet said:

Stars - Collins Gem  Chocca with maps and tiny.

 

Just got one through my letter-box, looks very good indeed and actually pocket sized. 

[AlexK]

On 06/03/2021 at 07:24, wibblefish said:

I would like to do sketching at the telescope actually at some point but waiting for my Orion Astro Lamp to arrive 🧙‍♂️

I guess you've got certain paper sketching skills? Do you know the digital sketching exists and that certain smartphones are providing quite interesting tools for that out of the box? E.g. here is my "Fantasy Nebula" sketch done on my ODA (Samsung Galaxy Note 3 "phablet" with its integrated S-Pen) several years ago. Just to demo several techniques possible on digital canvas which you can zoom in to define details and zoom out to define contours at will:

Edited March 10, 2021 by AlexK

[wibblefish]

1 hour ago, AlexK said:

I guess you've got certain paper sketching skills? Do you know the digital sketching exists and that certain smartphones are providing quite interesting tools for that out of the box? E.g. here is my "Fantasy Nebula" sketch done on my ODA (Samsung Galaxy Note 3 "phablet" with its integrated S-Pen) several years ago. Just to demo several techniques possible on digital canvas which you can zoom in to define details and zoom out to define contours at will:

Unfortunately I have zero drawing skills and even less with digital I suspect 😂

I figure paper sketching at least would be simple and I have the materials to hand. Plus it might be fun to try you never know I might not be terrible at it! Astronomy is all new to me so I am just trying lots of things to see what aspects interest me and maybe sitting and drawing will mean I “see” more as I wont be ticking off targets oh my lists and moving on which I feel I do a lot at present.

Thats a lovely picture, you have some talent and its interesting to see what digital is capable of. If I go down the route of digital maps etc and get a tablet that can support that (I am not sure my little iphone will cut it) that would also be an interesting thing to try thanks for the suggestion and something to aspire to be able to do 😎

Edited March 10, 2021 by wibblefish

[Pixies]

I'm very new to sketching (and proper astronomy in general). So I'm hardly an expert. The sketches I've been doing at the eyepiece are just that - sketches. I'll make several, often each one focusing (sorry) on a different aspect of the image. Spacing/geometry, shades/brightness, colour notes, fine details in certain areas. Then when I get back inside, I'll combine them into a finished sketch., sometimes using digital.

For example, these:

became this:

 

But there are times when you just need a quick sketch to be able to confirm locations and objects when you can get back inside.

 

[Spile]

I now do not consider an object "ticked" unless I have sketched it. Well apart from open clusters which are too much for me.

If I had to sketch the Double Clusters, I'd still be at the eyepiece now 🙂

 

[John]

I observed 30+ galaxies the other night. I could not have sketched any of them, at least with any realism. Most were just a barely perceptible patch of light. 

 

[AlexK]

Nice sketches Pixies!
I believe nebulae are most rewarding for sketching as they are gradually revealing their fine features as you observe them and allow multiple takes on their appearance capturing in the observer's mind. But definitely you want a large aperture, NB filters, and truly dark skies.

When I've been developing my app, I've been thinking of adding the dedicated sketching tool as well allowing to draw right on the star chart, but then found a very limited interest in the community as artists were sticking to their pencils and charcoals and the WACOM S-Pen was largely unknown to the public at the time...

[NorfolkGazer]

On 03/03/2021 at 19:37, Tiny Clanger said:

And another freebie : https://www.deepskywatch.com/deepsky-atlas-release1.html

or the 'serious' version for A3 printing https://www.deepskywatch.com/deep-sky-hunter-atlas.html

which the creator says is " for serious deep sky observers." .

I've just downloaded this and started printing it. I like something tangible in front of me to use and think this will be better for me than using an app when at the scope. I think app's have their place, but for me this is better. 

[casati]

Especially for the visual observer these star charts can become handy:

https://mitdensternentanzen.jimdofree.com/ansicht-hinweise/

Google Translate required for the introduction.

[wibblefish]

I forgot to update to say I got my charts and have looked up some of the sissy haas on the pocket atlas think my brain is just about there with the idea of right ascension and declination lol look forward to trying them ... been 3 weeks of no clear skies but maybe later? 

Edited March 13, 2021 by wibblefish

[NorfolkGazer]

As a bit of a side topic on this one, would anyone know what size I would have to draw the three reticles for the Telrad to be in scale with the deep sky watch printouts. Apologies if this is hijacking the thread a little, but it seemed the best place to post it. Was thinking of drawing them on a clear sheet so I could use it with the atlas to star hop.

[Waddensky]

4 minutes ago, NorfolkGazer said:

As a bit of a side topic on this one, would anyone know what size I would have to draw the three reticles for the Telrad to be in scale with the deep sky watch printouts. Apologies if this is hijacking the thread a little, but it seemed the best place to post it. Was thinking of drawing them on a clear sheet so I could use it with the atlas to star hop.

It depends on the paper size you print the charts on (it's a vector PDF so you can pretty much choose any paper size). The Deep-sky Watch atlas has a declination grid of 5 degrees, if you measure the distance between two grid lines you can calculate the size of the Telrad circles (they are 4, 2 and 0.5 degrees).

[NorfolkGazer]

25 minutes ago, Waddensky said:

It depends on the paper size you print the charts on (it's a vector PDF so you can pretty much choose any paper size). The Deep-sky Watch atlas has a declination grid of 5 degrees, if you measure the distance between two grid lines you can calculate the size of the Telrad circles (they are 4, 2 and 0.5 degrees).

Perfect, cheers for that, I’ll have a go.

[AlexK]

Just keep in mind that most paper charts have a different scale on different charts in the set. And the scale of the top is often different from the scale on the bottom, all the way to the need of not circular rings for Telrad, as the projection of a sphere to the surface can be done in several ways but always with certain distortions, which are very visible on large field charts. So don't expect a perfect sky match with your DIY Telrad rings. While properly implemented digital star charts don't have such an issue at all. My in-app Telrad rings are so precise that I'm using even the width of the lit ring to judge my pointing precision.

By the way, the best method of making accurate overlays is using special projection transparencies for LaserJet printers (with a LaserJet printer of course). They last forever, have a very high contrast, and that way it's easy to print good overlays in various scales as needed for paper charts scale variances matching. I've been preferring thinnest film as I could electrify it to be a bit sticky to the chart. Though, again, that 30 years-old high-tech is even worse a chore to use at the eyepiece. While with the digital overlay I'm now pointing having the chart frankly side by side with the Telrad view. That makes the perfect indirect pointing with the Telrad a dozen of seconds nobrainer even for a beginner.

On a side note, the proven flow with paper charts and Telrad from 80-es is making individual finder charts for every object you plan to observe, with Telrad rings on them exactly as needed for the object finding. I recall crawling over some ancient professional grade star atlas (stars down to 10m) pages on the floor (as it was like 120x100 cm large) with a piece of contact paper and a pen planning the night several days. That flow is addressing all of the above issues, as rings are drawn with the compass measured with the chart's grid in the vicinity of the target.

The fun thing about that tech is that to avoid using a broad light flashlights with these charts folks were making light boxes with momentary light button, brightness control, and a projection transparency film cover to tuck finding charts under it for protection. Most advanced amateurs fighting for the perfect darkness adaptation, were also transferring their finding charts with black ink copier paper and using the resulting used copier sheets to create inverse charts (red symbols on black background) with these light boxes. An OLED smartphone screen prototype from XX century.  I would say, even better than some modern smartphones and apps, as you could also draw with markers on that reusable/replaceable transparency cover...

Edited March 29, 2021 by AlexK

[jadcx]

On 03/03/2021 at 19:37, Tiny Clanger said:

And another freebie : https://www.deepskywatch.com/deepsky-atlas-release1.html

or the 'serious' version for A3 printing https://www.deepskywatch.com/deep-sky-hunter-atlas.html

which the creator says is " for serious deep sky observers." .

I've just had this printed (A3) and it's pretty great for ~£20 (I used https://www.doxdirect.com A3, 130gsm satin paper).

[tripleped]

I have  Sky Safari and like it alot but is there a way to measure distances from reference stars to your desired object in  degrees and minutes like  a start  chart  would  show?

[jadcx]

1 hour ago, tripleped said:

I have  Sky Safari and like it alot but is there a way to measure distances from reference stars to your desired object in  degrees and minutes like  a start  chart  would  show?

I have the Plus version, when you select an object, you can then open the context menu (tap the Selection option in the bottom bar/menu) and then 'Measure from.  You can then select another object and see the angle and distance.

[tripleped]

oh that  sounds  good-  I'll get that  version and try it out.  Thank you!