Sky-Watcher Price Increases

[Kimboman]

It must be the right time for uk manufacturers to emerge and take advantage of the demand for astro equipment.

The time may be right to sell my house and buy as much astro equipment as I can lay my hands on, anyone got a spare room??

[Whirlwind]

12 hours ago, Deadlake said:

The free lunch of lower prices from China could never last. If transport costs did fall, I suspect cost of living rising in China will make up the difference. The new normal.

Transport costs are unlikely to fall anytime in the future.  There are bigger dynamic changes occurring in the wider market.  One of the large factors for increased shipping costs is due to waste changes.  A couple of years ago a lot of waste for recycling went to China but it has increasingly closed its doors to most waste (barring metals).  Shipping use to be able to offset costs partially through having ships full for both journeys (you ship the goods one way and the waste the other way).  With much less waste going to China a significant fraction of ships are going back empty.  As such the shipping costs have almost doubled (as you pay to ship the product and then pay to move the ship back empty).  It's not really a pandemic issue either.

[Robindonne]

I think it would also benefit all the shops if there is some announcement about a temporarily or permanent increase.   Temporarily will let all interested buyers wait for that moment the price drop. Who wants to pay 20% more, knowing in 6 months all prices would drop again. I would buy more easy knowing this is the new normal.

Edited February 13, 2021 by Robindonne

[Deadlake]

12 hours ago, Kimboman said:

It must be the right time for uk manufacturers to emerge and take advantage of the demand for astro equipment.

The time may be right to sell my house and buy as much astro equipment as I can lay my hands on, anyone got a spare room??

Two main lens fabs in the world, One in Japan (optcorp, Canon) and LZOS in Russia. An EU based manufacturer would need to ship blanks from Asia and then figure etc. Supply chain integration is against them, CFF is moving away from smaller aperture as shipping and supply of glass costs.

[malc-c]

13 hours ago, Kimboman said:

It must be the right time for uk manufacturers to emerge and take advantage of the demand for astro equipment.

The time may be right to sell my house and buy as much astro equipment as I can lay my hands on, anyone got a spare room??

But look at all the companies that used to make scopes, that are no longer around dues to inroads Chinese mass production had.  All of the components would need to be made in the UK, otherwise it somewhat defeats the object as you would then have to inflate the RRP if half the parts cost you 30% more due to the issues described here.

Back in the 80s you had manufacturers such as Superscopes in Bedford, Fullerscopes in London, and Astrosystems in Luton to name a few.  Most used Optics made by David Hinds.  But these were more or less made to order or in small batch runs, so you couldn't really visit and walk out with one like you can these days (well pre-covid !).  They also lacked the refinement of the Vixens and Celestrons that were starting to become popular, at least not for the regular models, like the 6" from Astrosystems.  

I think that it would take considerable investment to set up a telescope manufacturing plant in the UK that didn't source the raw materials from overseas, and that could provide the output to meet current demand  

[Deadlake]

4 minutes ago, malc-c said:

But look at all the companies that used to make scopes, that are no longer around dues to inroads Chinese mass production had.  All of the components would need to be made in the UK, otherwise it somewhat defeats the object as you would then have to inflate the RRP if half the parts cost you 30% more due to the issues described here.

Back in the 80s you had manufacturers such as Superscopes in Bedford, Fullerscopes in London, and Astrosystems in Luton to name a few.  Most used Optics made by David Hinds.  But these were more or less made to order or in small batch runs, so you couldn't really visit and walk out with one like you can these days (well pre-covid !).  They also lacked the refinement of the Vixens and Celestrons that were starting to become popular, at least not for the regular models, like the 6" from Astrosystems.  

I think that it would take considerable investment to set up a telescope manufacturing plant in the UK that didn't source the raw materials from overseas, and that could provide the output to meet current demand  

Look at the US. In the 1980's they had capacity to make ED glass, in fact that is where Astro physics got their first batches from. An accountant worked out to maximise returns the glass foundry smelters should be shut down and the palladium stripped out to be sold off. This was a short term win, just mean the US cannot fabricate ED glass and has to import from Japan. Good or bad on you view on economics and supply chains.

LZOS still make glass for the Russian military primary, consumers get it as it's an advert for LZOS to win big deals from the scientific community. 

[TerraC]

ARgh So frustrating..   Just about to hit the buy on an Az-GTI from FLO.   This morning £215 or £285 with tripod and extension.  This afternoon £249 for the head and £339 for tripod and pillar.   That's scuppered that then.   back to the drawing board.  

 

[MiladyB]

20 minutes ago, TerraC said:

ARgh So frustrating..   Just about to hit the buy on an Az-GTI from FLO.   This morning £215 or £285 with tripod and extension.  This afternoon £249 for the head and £339 for tripod and pillar.   That's scuppered that then.   back to the drawing board.  

 

I feel your pain. I'd been looking at a Heritage 150p to combine with an az-gti mount - it was between that setup and the 250px flextube. The 150p wasn't in stock and I wouldn't have ordered the mount on its own as I wanted to get the scope first. I was hoping to get into a shop to look at the 250px. Now the big dob is simply too expensive, and the other setup will probably cost way more than it would have been.

I thought I was being wise being patient for once - d'oh! 🤦🏻‍♀️

[malc-c]

1 hour ago, TerraC said:

ARgh So frustrating..   Just about to hit the buy on an Az-GTI from FLO.   This morning £215 or £285 with tripod and extension.  This afternoon £249 for the head and £339 for tripod and pillar.   That's scuppered that then.   back to the drawing board.  

 

Seems everyone has applied the same increases - RVO have it listed for the same amount.  However Harrisons are showing it as in stock and at £299 for the mount and tripod

Here

Edited February 15, 2021 by malc-c
added link

[malc-c]

1 hour ago, TerraC said:

ARgh So frustrating..   Just about to hit the buy on an Az-GTI from FLO.   This morning £215 or £285 with tripod and extension.  This afternoon £249 for the head and £339 for tripod and pillar.   That's scuppered that then.   back to the drawing board.  

 

I would contact FLO in that case.   The price increase should only affect new stock arriving.  If this is stock that FLO have in their showroom / warehouse form their last order then IMO that's just a rip off as they (along with other retailers) are profiteering form the new pricing announcement. 

[johninderby]

Have you checked to see that Harrisons  actually has stock. 🤔

[TerraC]

19 minutes ago, malc-c said:

I would contact FLO in that case.   The price increase should only affect new stock arriving.  If this is stock that FLO have in their showroom / warehouse form their last order then IMO that's just a rip off as they (along with other retailers) are profiteering form the new pricing announcement. 

I've sent them an email over - Worth a try thank you.  

It looks like most people have hiked their prices today.  One breaks and the rest all follow    There are some people on ebay really going crazy and making some money with the prices of these things.  £339+ for mount head only!     

I'll keep my nose to the ground on the used market.  I missed two of them a couple of weeks ago at good prices, I'm just not fast enough on the classifieds. 

 

[TerraC]

4 minutes ago, johninderby said:

Have you checked to see that Harrisons  actually has stock. 🤔

They claim they have them in stock.  They've put theirs up by £10 so it seem.   It was £289 on Friday.     

 

 

[malc-c]

13 minutes ago, johninderby said:

Have you checked to see that Harrisons  actually has stock. 🤔

Their website is showing stock.  - Naturally I've not telephoned them as it's nothing to do with me.  

[FLO]

1 hour ago, TerraC said:

ARgh So frustrating..   Just about to hit the buy on an Az-GTI from FLO.   This morning £215 or £285 with tripod and extension.  This afternoon £249 for the head and £339 for tripod and pillar.   

Welcome to SGL! 

What you claim is not true. Our price changed back when this discussion was started. It has not moved even £1 today. 

39 minutes ago, malc-c said:

I would contact FLO in that case.   The price increase should only affect new stock arriving.  If this is stock that FLO have in their showroom / warehouse form their last order then IMO that's just a rip off as they (along with other retailers) are profiteering form the new pricing announcement. 

Oh Malcolm!

Consider how many UK astronomy retailers have closed their doors over the years. Telescope House (now owned by Bresser-Germany), Telescope Planet, Venturescope, Scopes'n'Skies, Pulsar Optical, Astronomy & Nature Centre, Astronomia, F1telescopes, Greenwich, David Hinds... Together with others I have probably forgotten. Were they all profiteering too? 

With stock as scarce as it is we will still be dispatching customer backorders at pre-increase prices well into late summer / early Autumn. Many at little or no profit, because it is the right thing to do. We will not extend this sentiment to someone joining SGL only to complain about a price increase that affects all UK retailers. 

Steve 

[johninderby]

Couple of times I’ve ordered “in stock” items from Harrisons only to be told that sorry but we don’t actually have stock. Their  stock system isn’t as modern as FLOs.

[malc-c]

4 minutes ago, FLO said:

Welcome to SGL! 

What you claim is not true. Our price changed back when this discussion was started. It has not moved even £1 today. 

Oh Malcolm!

Consider how many UK astronomy retailers have closed their doors over the years. Telescope House (now owned by Bresser-Germany), Telescope Planet, Venturescope, Scopes'n'Skies, Pulsar Optical, Astronomy & Nature Centre, Astronomia, F1telescopes, Greenwich, David Hinds... Together with others I have probably forgotten. Were they all profiteering too? 

With stock as scarce as it is we will still be dispatching customer backorders at pre-increase prices well into late summer / early Autumn. Many at little or no profit, because it is the right thing to do. We will not extend this sentiment to someone joining SGL only to complain about a price increase that affects all UK retailers. 

Steve 

Steve,

I'm beginning to question being a member of this forum.  Seems these days I seem to  unintentionally end up sticking my foot in it and upset people.

My comment was based on what Terrac posted.  Naturally there are two sides to any story, and that is why I included the IF statement in my post.  By that it could have been a case that the last one of these mounts had been sold that morning, and now you were awaiting new stock which naturally will be at the new price.  IF on the other hand the item was in stock, and had been purchased from OVL at the pre-increase price then it would seem as I suggested, which given FLO's reputation would be most out of character, and hence why I suggested Terrac made contact with you.    

None of us know what's transpired before... I don't monitor your prices on a daily basis just so I can correct what appears to be a false statement by Terrac.  It's a public forum, where people make opinions and posts replies based on what's been posted by others.  His post didn't seem like they were having a pop at UK retailers pushing up the prices, it seems as if he was looking for the  sort of response I gave him, by that it would seem a different supplier is advertising the same product at a lower price and claim to have stock.  You have accused them of joining SGL just to slagg FLO off...  and have called them out over the pricing claims... which I can understand if that is indeed the case (as I said, I don't monitor your prices so can't really comment on that).

As for all those excellent companies you list... again, I have no information on what influenced them to close and stop trading.  There are no doubt old stories floating around where they may have served in injustice and made money off the back of  one or two customers, but again, that's hearsay and is now water a long way under a bridge, but if true that poor reputation could have been the deciding factor....

Anyway... time for me to just lurke and browse the forum, rather than try and contribute or voice an opinion

[TerraC]

20 minutes ago, FLO said:

Welcome to SGL! 

What you claim is not true. Our price changed back when this discussion was started. It has not moved even £1 today. 

Oh Malcolm!

Consider how many UK astronomy retailers have closed their doors over the years. Telescope House (now owned by Bresser-Germany), Telescope Planet, Venturescope, Scopes'n'Skies, Pulsar Optical, Astronomy & Nature Centre, Astronomia, F1telescopes, Greenwich, David Hinds... Together with others I have probably forgotten. Were they all profiteering too? 

With stock as scarce as it is we will still be dispatching customer backorders at pre-increase prices well into late summer / early Autumn. Many at little or no profit, because it is the right thing to do. We will not extend this sentiment to someone joining SGL only to complain about a price increase that affects all UK retailers. 

 

Now that bit I find offensive.  I didnt only join to complain.  I've actually been a watcher and reader on the site for over a year.  I am an amateur and beginner and did not feel experienced enough to join in with discussions - I signed up a short while ago to hopefully join in.  I noticed this thread as I was trying to find out information on why the sudden price increases. 

Now both my mobile phone and chrome on my laptop showed the old prices this morning.  Possibly due to caching maybe as I had looked on the site previously whilst trying to make my mind up which mount/star tracker to purchase. 

Not a problem - As you can see from my first post I was sharing frustration at missing the boat with something that appeared (to my browser anyway) to have had happened in the space of a couple of hours.

 

[TerraC]

1 minute ago, malc-c said:

 

Anyway... time for me to just lurke and browse the forum, rather than try and contribute or voice an opinion

And this is the reason I dont usually bother to join and comment on forums.  Been there, seen that, done it.  Fishkeeping, photography et all.   The written word and and other jovial discussion I always tend to rub people up the wrong way.    ditto thank you for your advice and input.   Over and out..   

 

[Carbon Brush]

2 minutes ago, TerraC said:

And this is the reason I dont usually bother to join and comment on forums.  Been there, seen that, done it.  Fishkeeping, photography et all.   The written word and and other jovial discussion I always tend to rub people up the wrong way.    ditto thank you for your advice and input.   Over and out..   

 

I have been an SGL member since 2010. Not necessarily agreed with everyone. But definitely found SGL to be great place for many reasons.
Lurk and look a while before abandoning?

[teoria_del_big_bang]

3 hours ago, malc-c said:

I'm beginning to question being a member of this forum.  Seems these days I seem to  unintentionally end up sticking my foot in it and upset people.

My comment was based on what Terrac posted.  Naturally there are two sides to any story

Anyway... time for me to just lurke and browse the forum, rather than try and contribute or voice an opinion

Malcom,

You will feel different in a day or two I am sure.
You have been a member for a long while and make some great contributions to SGL.
If I count how many times I have put my foot in it or said the wrong thing then I will need more fingers.
Also somebody on here really upset me not long after joining and felt the same where I though should I be on the forum or not and did consider just not participating anymore but glad I thought again. 

Remember it is a forum which means everybody is entitled to their opinion or to calmly state their thoughts, whether right or wrong.
I think it will be a sad day when you stop posting so please think again. Nobody was hurt or really offended, as I read it Steve was just stating things from his (or FLO's) point of view and I don't think was particularly upset by your remarks, so you have no reason to feel you have (In my opinion - there may be others ha ha).

Steve

Edited February 15, 2021 by teoria_del_big_bang

[Robindonne]

 

[Skipper Billy]

4 hours ago, Carbon Brush said:

Over and out..   

Point of order - its either 'over' OR 'out' it cannot ever be both. 😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃🙃

'Over' means over to you.

'Out' means conversation end.

As a mariner it annoys me to hear that phrase in films etc

 

[teoria_del_big_bang]

5 minutes ago, Skipper Billy said:

Point of order - its either 'over' OR 'out' it cannot ever be both. 😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃🙃

'Over' means over to you.

'Out' means conversation end.

As a mariner it annoys me to hear that phrase in films etc

 

I did hear this on QI, before that I too would have thought it was normal to say over and out, as you say from various films I had seen.

Steve

[tomato]

7 minutes ago, Skipper Billy said:

Point of order - its either 'over' OR 'out' it cannot ever be both. 😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃🙃

'Over' means over to you.

'Out' means conversation end.

As a mariner it annoys me to hear that phrase in films etc

 

Roger that.🙂