Astrophotography Setup

[Daf1983]

Hi,

Having done a fair bit of observing with my dob and imaging with DSLR, lens and the Omegon Minitrack over the past year, I'm ready to invest some money in a more serious astrophotography rig. I've read 'Making every photon count' (twice), and I think I have an idea of what I need to get started. My logic is to start with a fairly simple setup with no guiding, and then build from there. This is what I have in mind:

1. HEQ5 pro

2. Evostar 72ED - I decided on this rather than the 80ED to make it easier to track unguided 

3. OVL field flattener

4. Astro essential dovetail bar - in order to balance the scope properly

5. Lynx Astro 12v DC power supply - to power mount from mains supply

6. DSLR and t ring adapter (which I already have).

Befoe I pull the trigger, is this a decent starting setup to get into astrophotography, and does anyone have a similar setup? Have I missed anything that I need?

 

Thanks in advance

Dafydd

Edited January 26, 2021 by Daf1983

[PeterCPC]

Depending on your light pollution, you might want to add a LP filter. Otherwise, it should be ok. I'm assuming that you have a laptop. You might also need something to control dew.

[Daf1983]

Hi, thanks for the reply. I live in bortle 4 skies, so I'll see how I get on before investing in a LP filter. Also, as I won't be guiding to begin with, am I right in saying subs won't be long enough for LP to be an issue?

I have a laptop. With regards to dew control, I 've had no issues at all with due while imaging with a dslr and lens,. Would a refractor be any more prone to dew than a standard lens?

[PeterCPC]

I also have (allegedly Bortle 4 skies) but I find that I need a LP filter when shooting lowish targets. Depends what you mean by short subs. I don't see why a refractor would be more prone to dew but I need a dew strip on my ED80 in some cases. The best thing to do is to try it and see. If you really want some good results you really should consider long subs with guiding especially if the DSLR is not modified.

[Daf1983]

Short subs - I'm assuming as I won't be guiding to begin with, I won't be able to obtain very long subs. But I take your point on needing to guide to get good results, but I want to get used to using a eq mount and polar aligning etc first, before I add an extra layer of complexity which guiding brings (plus I've blown my budget on the mount and telescope😪)

As you say, the best thing to do is try and see what works. 

Thanks for your input

[Stub Mandrel]

I think taking a step at a time is sensible, I feel that in many ways it makes the journey more rewarding.

But I would go straight to a scope that will serve your needs long term. The ED80 should tack for a minute or longer if you have good PA and the mount is well adjusted.

The step to guiding is relatively cheap if you already have a suitable laptop, so you pr4obably won't take too long before moving forwards.

[Daf1983]

25 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

I think taking a step at a time is sensible, I feel that in many ways it makes the journey more rewarding.

But I would go straight to a scope that will serve your needs long term. The ED80 should tack for a minute or longer if you have good PA and the mount is well adjusted.

The step to guiding is relatively cheap if you already have a suitable laptop, so you pr4obably won't take too long before moving forwards.

I have to be honest, this has been my major dilemma! Would the 80ed give much better results?

[Stub Mandrel]

ED72 is a much shorter focal length, making the ED80 more of an all-rounder. I suggest using the field of view simulators in Stellarium to look at how they suit different targets.

Bear in mind though that if you go for a dedicated astro camera in future it will probably have a smaller sensor, especially if you want to stick with 1.25" filters

I have a scope made with the lens from the obsolete ED66 that is superb as a wide field scope and is same focal length as the ED72 (400mm) there are some hints the ED72 may not be quite as sharp being a faster scope than ED80/ED66, but personally I doubt it's noticeable under most circumstances. The ED66 complements my 130PDS which is similar Fl to the ED80 with the coma corrector (590 vs 600mm).

I also have a 1200mm scope for small DSOs and planets, and various wider camera lenses.

Of all of them I think ~600mm (130p-DS/ED80) is a 'sweet spot' in terms of price/performance and flexibility of targets, but that's only my view.

A good combo might be ED72 and a 130P-DS for not a huge amount more than an 80ED alone.

 

[Daf1983]

14 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

ED72 is a much shorter focal length, making the ED80 more of an all-rounder. I suggest using the field of view simulators in Stellarium to look at how they suit different targets.

Bear in mind though that if you go for a dedicated astro camera in future it will probably have a smaller sensor, especially if you want to stick with 1.25" filters

I have a scope made with the lens from the obsolete ED66 that is superb as a wide field scope and is same focal length as the ED72 (400mm) there are some hints the ED72 may not be quite as sharp being a faster scope than ED80/ED66, but personally I doubt it's noticeable under most circumstances. The ED66 complements my 130PDS which is similar Fl to the ED80 with the coma corrector (590 vs 600mm).

I also have a 1200mm scope for small DSOs and planets, and various wider camera lenses.

Of all of them I think ~600mm (130p-DS/ED80) is a 'sweet spot' in terms of price/performance and flexibility of targets, but that's only my view.

A good combo might be ED72 and a 130P-DS for not a huge amount more than an 80ED alone.

 

Would the 80ed not need a focal reducer to make it quick enough for imaging? This would bring the focal length to 510mm (with 0.85 reducer which most use), which is not that much longer than the 72ed. I'm not disagreeing with you by the way, just trying to get my head around both optiins😁

I've had a play on the field of view simulators, and while the 80ed is probably better for more targets, I felt there wasn't much in it(assuming you use a focal reducer)

[Gerr]

Hi Dafydd,

I am up the Donkey in Holyhead and use a HEQ5 Pro and have an ED80 Refractor.

Your set-up is similar to mine and it is a great combo for wide field targets such as the North America Nebula and also big galaxies like Andromeda.

Bright targets like M42 you can achieve unguided but most of my imaging is in the order of minutes (usually 3 or 4) to achieve good results.

Consider a SW EvoGuide 50ED Refractor scope and ZWO AS1120mm Mini guide camera combo (see FLO site) as a solution for guiding long exposure astrophotography.  

I do find I can get dew forming on the lens of the scope (even though I store equipment in a cold garage before use). I have made cardboard dew shields as a cheap solution to this.

I also use light pollution filters to reduce light gradients in my images and a field flattener to eliminate lens field distortion.

Gerr.

[Daf1983]

1 minute ago, Gerr said:

Hi Dafydd,

I am up the Donkey in Holyhead and use a HEQ5 Pro and have an ED80 Refractor.

Your set-up is similar to mine and it is a great combo for wide field targets such as the North America Nebula and also big galaxies like Andromeda.

Bright targets like M42 you can achieve unguided but most of my imaging is in the order of minutes (usually 3 or 4) to achieve good results.

Consider a SW EvoGuide 50ED Refractor scope and ZWO AS1120mm Mini guide camera combo (see FLO site) as a solution for guiding long exposure astrophotography.  

I do find I can get dew forming on the lens of the scope (even though I store equipment in a cold garage before use). I have made cardboard dew shields as a cheap solution to this.

I also use light pollution filters to reduce light gradients in my images and a field flattener to eliminate lens field distortion.

Gerr.

Thanks, that good to know! Looks like I'll have to invest in some guiding equipment sooner rather than later!

What field flattener due you use with the 80ed? The main thing that's putting me off is the skywatcher ff/fr is about £180, which makes it a much more expensive option than the 72ed (where you can use the ovl flattener)

[fifeskies]

An ED80 is a very good all rounder and not too demanding on the mount.

I do use a reducer/flattener with mine so enjoy the slightly faster response , and I do guide, but both these "extras" can be seen as your upgrade path.

Before guiding I found 90 sec to be the limit depending on how close I was to the zenith. Lower objects track faster.

With guiding I take 8 min exposures now.

 

Here is an "unguided" M31 image from my ED80, back when I was just starting out (90 sec exposures).

 

 

[fifeskies]

3 minutes ago, Daf1983 said:

 

What field flattener due you use with the 80ed? The main thing that's putting me off is the skywatcher ff/fr is about £180, 

I bought my Televue reducer flattener second hand (TRF-2008) , they come up fairly often and was a fair bit less than the dedicated one new.

[Daf1983]

Just now, fifeskies said:

I bought my Televue reducer flattener second hand (TRF-2008) , they come up fairly often and was a fair bit less than the dedicated one new.

Thanks for that, I've seen a few people use the altair ff/fr also. Am I right on assuming that any field flattener will work as long as it matches the specs of the scope?

[fifeskies]

15 minutes ago, Daf1983 said:

Thanks for that, I've seen a few people use the altair ff/fr also. Am I right on assuming that any field flattener will work as long as it matches the specs of the scope?

The TV one suits any scope of 400-600 according to the box , but I had seen it recommended may times for the ED80.

It is 0.8 so gives a big advantage reducing my Equinox version of the Skywatcher ED80 to 400mm (from its 500mm native) and speeds it up to F5.

Just see what other's think of any reducer you consider.

 

Don't worry about a reducer at first , you may get some edge coma but when starting out there is a lot to learn before worrying about all the bells and whistles. You can get some nice images (and can crop if you think the edge is bad).

 

Another ED80 pic below , North America Nebula , also from my unguided days and only 90 sec exposure time.

Its nice and bright so you don't need as long as with the fainter targets

 

Edited January 26, 2021 by fifeskies

[Gerr]

I was lucky and bought my ED80 second hand from this forum and it came with a SW Field Flattener.

My ED80 'speeds' up to f/ 6.37 with this!!

Unfortunately these are expensive new (just like most things in this hobby).

However;

I connect all my stuff through EQMOD / ASCOM / EQDIR cable to Astro Photography Tool (APT). This software is brilliant  and you can control your whole imaging session with it. It works seamlessly with guiding camera (PHD2), HEQ5 mount control, camera functions and sky charts (Cartes du Ciel - is best). It basically converts your telescope and mount into a stand alone and remotely controlled set-up. APT is free (you do have option to pay 18 euros for full fancy version) and so are all the other applications.

You do need a laptop and connecting cables (especially EQDir to mount).

I have not looked back since.

Gerr.

 

 

[Daf1983]

1 minute ago, Gerr said:

I was lucky and bought my ED80 second hand from this forum and it came with a SW Field Flattener.

My ED80 'speeds' up to f/ 6.37 with this!!

Unfortunately these are expensive new (just like most things in this hobby).

However;

I connect all my stuff through EQMOD / ASCOM / EQDIR cable to Astro Photography Tool (APT). This software is brilliant  and you can control your whole imaging session with it. It works seamlessly with guiding camera (PHD2), HEQ5 mount control, camera functions and sky charts (Cartes du Ciel - is best). It basically converts your telescope and mount into a stand alone and remotely controlled set-up. APT is free (you do have option to pay 18 euros for full fancy version) and so are all the other applications.

You do need a laptop and connecting cables (especially EQDir to mount).

I have not looked back since.

Gerr.

 

 

This is my plan eventually, but I'm trying to take things one step at a time.

[Daf1983]

5 minutes ago, fifeskies said:

The TV one suits any scope of 400-600 according to the box , but I had seen it recommended may times for the ED80.

It is 0.8 so gives a big advantage reducing the ED80 to 400mm (from its 500mm native) and speeds it up to F5.

Just see what other's think of any reducer you consider.

 

Don't worry about a reducer at first , you may get some edge coma but when starting out there is a lot to learn before worrying about all the bells and whistles. You can get some nice images (and can crop if you think the edge is bad).

 

Another ED80 pic below , North America Nebula , also from my unguided days and only 90 sec exposure time.

Its nice and bright so you don't need as long as with the fainter targets

 

Thanks again for the input! My only worry with using the 80ed without a focal reducer, is that it would be too slow, especially as I won't be guiding to begin with. 

[fifeskies]

8 minutes ago, Daf1983 said:

Thanks again for the input! My only worry with using the 80ed without a focal reducer, is that it would be too slow, especially as I won't be guiding to begin with. 

You can select plenty bright targets to get used to the whole process, where the slower scope wont be such a problem.

 

Orion Nebula , Pleiades , M31 Andromeda , North America Nebula , all should be good starter targets., as well as some globular clusters , and don't forget some Lunar imaging as well.

Also recommend the free APT software and DSS to stack lots of shorter exposures and so get long "integrated" times.

Free and there are plenty good tutorials on using them , also free GIMP for stretching the final results to bring out the DSO targets.

 

I did start with the advantage of the Faster Equinox version of the ED80 and bought it 2nd hand with the 0.8 TV reducer/flattener in the pack , so it was a lucky find for my first imaging scope.

Edited January 26, 2021 by fifeskies

[7170]

3 hours ago, Daf1983 said:

5. Lynx Astro 12v DC power supply - to power mount from mains supply

Can I suggest you consider looking into a 12v 10amp CCTV power adaptor instead. About £15 from a well known online retailer and I have found them to very reliable long term. 2.1mm splitter leads are cheap too and 10amp gives you ample current for future equipment, or DIY/purchased dew bands etc.

You will probably also need some T2 extension tubes (again cheap online) as you don't want to use the diagonal, and with my ED80 the focus tube is out further than I like with no extension tubes and a camera on the end. I don't use a focal reducer though.

[Daf1983]

3 minutes ago, fifeskies said:

You can select plenty bright targets to get used to the whole process, where the slower scope wont be such a problem.

 

Orion Nebula , Pleiades , M31 Andromeda , North America Nebula , all should be good starter targets., as well as some globular clusters , and don't forget some Lunar imaging as well.

Also recommend the free APT software and DSS to stack lots of shorter exposures and so get long "integrated" times.

Free and there are plenty good tutorials on using them , also free GIMP for stretching the final results to bring out the DSO targets.

 

I did start with the advantage of the Faster Equinox version of the ED80 and bought it 2nd hand with the 0.8 TV reducer/flattener in the pack , so it was a lucky find for my first imaging scope.

It's good to now that it's useable without a reducer. I'm being swayed towards getting the 80ed without a reducer to begin with, and keep an eye out for one on the 2nd hand market.

I've used dss and gimp quite a bit while imaging with dslr and lens, so at least that's one less thing I have to learn!

[Daf1983]

1 minute ago, 7170 said:

Can I suggest you consider looking into a 12v 10amp CCTV power adaptor instead. About £15 from a well known online retailer and I have found them to very reliable long term. 2.1mm splitter leads are cheap too and 10amp gives you ample current for future equipment, or DIY/purchased dew bands etc.

You will probably also need some T2 extension tubes (again cheap online) as you don't want to use the diagonal, and with my ED80 the focus tube is out further than I like with no extension tubes and a camera on the end. I don't use a focal reducer though.

Thanks for that. The power supply is something that's been bugging me. The lynx power cable seems very expensive for what it is, but coming from a position of zero experience it's difficult to know what alternatives will work

[7170]

9 minutes ago, Daf1983 said:

Thanks for that. The power supply is something that's been bugging me. The lynx power cable seems very expensive for what it is, but coming from a position of zero experience it's difficult to know what alternatives will work

PM sent with details of the one I bought, incase directly linking publicly here on the forum to a product is not permitted.

[KP82]

You will need a dew heater and stripes for these cold winter nights.

Also I'd recommend guiding which would greatly improve your imaging experience and reduce the amount of wasted subs. The software is readily available and free. Personally I was using guiding from day 1. The only thing that would have stopped me was my budget.

A mini-PC or RPi or an old laptop which you don't mind leaving outside in the cold would be handy if you're going to image from your backyard. You could wire everything to it and then control the whole rig remotely from another computer in the warmth of your house.

Edited January 26, 2021 by KP82

[Daf1983]

49 minutes ago, KP82 said:

You will need a dew heater and stripes for these cold winter nights.

Also I'd recommend guiding which would greatly improve your imaging experience and reduce the amount of wasted subs. The software is readily available and free. Personally I was using guiding from day 1. The only thing that would have stopped me was my budget.

A mini-PC or RPi or an old laptop which you don't mind leaving outside in the cold would be handy if you're going to image from your backyard. You could wire everything to it and then control the whole rig remotely from another computer in the warmth of your house.

Hi, this is definitely the plan eventually, however I only have one laptop, and I use it with work, so I'm reluctant to take it outside. When budget allows, I will get a cheapish 2nd hand laptop which I can take outside.