(Star)gazed and confused 🤯

[MiladyB]

Hi,

So after a LOT of reading, video-watching and head-scratching, I'm desperately in need of some guidance from you lovely people, please!

I don't have a clear line of sight on Polaris from my back yard due to buildings, so an EQ mount isn't going to be that great for me. I might look at one for taking out into the countryside later, but I'm thinking alt-az for now.

I looked at the Star Discovery 150pi, but am not sure how good they are - no collimation, and some reviewers seem to dislike the focuser and vanes? I don't mind star-hopping with my planisphere and an app.

I'd like to get into AP at some point perhaps, but it's not my first priority.

I'm basically wanting to see some nice planets and DSOs, so I'm guessing as I don't have the room to store a 10" dobsonian and I want something portable, either a 6" newtonian or a decent refractor would make sense.

I'm liking the look of this combo, but am not sure if I'm barking up the wrong tree? 

One of these:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/pro-series/skywatcher-evostar-80ed-ds-pro-outfit.html

On one of these:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/alt-azimuth-astronomy-mounts/skywatcher-az4-alt-az-mount.html

What do you think?

Thanks in advance, and wishing you all clear skies!

MiladyB

[Cosmic Geoff]

The Star Discovery is a cut-price 6" Newtonian on a GoTo mount. If that is what you want, fine.

The 80ED is not cheap, and has a small aperture.  Most people buy them for deep space astrophotography, so far as I am aware. For planets and DSOs you really need more aperture.

The AZ4 is a good solid mount for general grab'n' go use.

If you are thinking of spending in the region of £660 for the scope and mount you could cast your net a bit wider.

Do you want GoTo?  Or a plain manual alt-azimuth mount?

 

[MiladyB]

Hi,

Goto isn't a massive priority at this point. I initially liked the look of the SW Explorer 150p - it seems to have a lot of fans - but I gather it would be a bit heavy for the az goto mounts. I'm happy to put in the work to learn to navigate without goto, with the option to go EQ goto later.

I've got a reasonable budget - up to £1000 for OTA, mount/tripod and some accessory bits. I really just want something good quality that I can get stuck in with, and has the potential to be 'scalable' later on. The more I've looked at and read up on the more I've boggled my mind to be honest so all advice is very much appreciated 😊

 

 

[Waddensky]

The Heritage 150P has a small footprint and can easily be stored, try to find some unboxing videos so you get an idea of the size collapsed - it's smaller than you'd expect! A dobson like this telescope has a mega solid base so you don't have to mess around with flimsy mounts or invest in a decent alt-azimuth mount. Its aperture is large enough to enjoy many years (some say: a lifetime) of observing and the scope can easily be upgraded with new eyepieces or other accessories in the future.

It's not suitable for photography, but that usually requires another setup altogether - it's a whole other branch of the hobby.

[ScouseSpaceCadet]

The Star Discovery 150i is popular. The Synscan GoTo is tried and tested. The optics are the same mirrors as the other Skywatcher 150mm reflector variants. The focuser is a cheap plastic horror but plenty of people put up with it. The spider vanes are on the thicker side but again, possible to live with. Primary collimation is fixed. Secondary collimation will need a quick tweak occasionally. This isn't a route into astrophotography (AP). An alt-azimuth mount and a focuser requiring modification to fit a camera.

If GoTo isn't a priority then consider a 6" reflector on a dobson mount. Due to a small footprint when stored upright, the more diminutive Dobsonians use less storage space than a mount/tripod/telescope.

The Skywatcher Classic 150p at f7.84 will be decent on planets and brighter DSOs while forgiving on cheaper eyepieces.

At £220 it's well within your budget, allowing you to purchase eyepieces and still save a bit more for dedicated AP kit should you decide AP is for you. Easy to put into the back seat of a car. Likewise the Heritage 150p at £200 is even more portable and easier to store.

The Explorer 130P-DS is a popular route into astrophotography. At £180, it leaves plenty of spare cash from your budget for the really important kit; a decent EQ mount/camera/filters etc. There's a thread dedicated to it in the forum Imaging section. The results people obtain with it are fantastic.

[MiladyB]

Thank you SO much for the advice! I knew I was over-complicating things. 😄

I think it's going to be a Heritage 150p for now, and once I've got the hang of that and can venture further afield than my back yard, I can look at a Goto EQ setup for some AP as well.

Now I just need to find somewhere with the Heritage 150p in stock!

Thanks again,

MiladyB x

[Cosmic Geoff]

A Heritage 150p should be a sound starter, and if you decide you later want GoTo, or astrophotography kit, you can add to your lineup later on. Just be aware that astrophotography can be a massive investment in time, effort and money.

[Zermelo]

+1 for everything @ScouseSpaceCadet says.

I Have the 150i and I'm very happy with it, but I had specific reasons for wanting GoTo and tracking (convenience when sharing sessions with others). If you think you're not going to make good use of it then you can either spend that (not inconsiderable) premium on either more aperture, or a 6" with a better focuser, or on accessories. Taking the time to learn to navigate will be time well spent.

If you are tempted by the 150i then yes, there is a degree of polarization of opinion. Some observers would never consider a primary they can't (easily) adjust; others trust that it will never need collimating and are thankful for one less thing to worry about. Mine has been fine so far; I've adjusted the secondary once and otherwise it's never moved. The design has been around for several years now. If it arrives out of collimation, send it straight back (to your trusted, specialist supplier of course). I have read (on other forums) some criticism of the Star Discovery mount, but it seems to be related to the early days of production when the clutches were not tightened correctly in the factory.

If you decide to start off with visual rather then AP (which I think is wise) then I'd go for an alt-az mount, especially with your polaris situation. If you were thinking of going EQ in anticipation of later AP, you would need to spend several hundreds on the mount alone, for best results. As mentioned above, even a 130PDS can take great images, if it's on the right mount.

[MiladyB]

While reading up on the Heritage 150p I noticed someone had posted on here last year about using their Heritage 150p dob on an az-gti mount (which I really like the look of but had discounted as they don't do a 6" in the range) so that's maybe something for me to consider if I feel like I want goto for fun without going full EQ - must admit it hadn't occurred to me that could be done 🤦🏻‍♀️ I clearly have a LOT to learn!

 

[Stu]

13 minutes ago, MiladyB said:

While reading up on the Heritage 150p I noticed someone had posted on here last year about using their Heritage 150p dob on an az-gti mount (which I really like the look of but had discounted as they don't do a 6" in the range) so that's maybe something for me to consider if I feel like I want goto for fun without going full EQ - must admit it hadn't occurred to me that could be done 🤦🏻‍♀️ I clearly have a LOT to learn!

 

I have never used my Heritage 150p on its Dob mount, I’ve always put it on a tripod on an alt az of some sort. Would be fun on the AZGTi I reckon.

[Tiny Clanger]

36 minutes ago, MiladyB said:

While reading up on the Heritage 150p I noticed someone had posted on here last year about using their Heritage 150p dob on an az-gti mount (which I really like the look of but had discounted as they don't do a 6" in the range) so that's maybe something for me to consider if I feel like I want goto for fun without going full EQ - must admit it hadn't occurred to me that could be done 🤦🏻‍♀️ I clearly have a LOT to learn!

 

Yep, most current scopes have a standard rail attached to their tube, the usual size is often referred to as a Synta or Vixen rail or bar or dovetail  ...  all those names seem interchangeable as far as I can see (please someone correct me if I'm wrong, the vagueness of the naming annoys me, I appreciate different manufacturers want to make their own brand distinct, but it's accursedly confusing !))    The length of the bar/rail/dovetail allows you to adjust the precise balance point,  different accessories on a 'scope will affect it

Similarly , most mounts have a standard dovetail clamp of matching size.
The heritage 150 has a standard vixen/synta/rail/bar/clamp/dovetail/whatever the heck, and the tabletop dob stand it comes with has the matching clamp , so the telescope tube can be taken off and shifted to any mount with a suitable matching clamp.

One thing to be aware of though, which may be a limiting factor if you are thinking aha ! Buy Heritage 150 (or 130 for that matter) now, and buy expensive tripod & EQ mount later to move it to ... There is a good reason why reflector 'scopes on EQ mounts have rings which their standard vixen/synta/rail/bar/clamp/dovetail/whatever-the-heck is fixed to. It is so that when the angle of the telescope makes it really hard to get your face in position to see through the telescope eyepiece, you can loosen the rings a little, and turn the telescope inside them, so the eyepiece tube rotates to a more convenient angle.

The Heritage 150 (did I mention how much I love mine ? 😀  It's a great little simple 'scope ) does not have tube rings, but rather a bolted in place rail (bar/vixen  etc etc ... ) You could add tube rings afterwards , but they cost quite a bit, and I think would have to be carefully selected to not interfere with the mechanism which allows the tube to, um , telescope down .

Don't be put off the heritage 150 , the simple dob base means you get a lot of telescope for  your money, rather than a similarly priced package which includes a flimsy cheap EQ and necessarily cheaper optics. If you started with visual, and thought you might want to move on to astro photo eventually, the heritage 150 could be supplemented with a more specialist 'scope & mount when you are ready, it is well regarded as a 'grab & go' option by folk with bigger instruments , or I suspect if you decided to move on from it, selling a heritage 150 second hand would see plenty of eager buyers ...

Heather

 

 

[MiladyB]

Excellent advice @Tiny Clanger - thank you 😊

As you say, there's no harm having a 'grab and go' as well if/when I get more confident 😄

MiladyB x

[ScouseSpaceCadet]

4 hours ago, MiladyB said:

While reading up on the Heritage 150p I noticed someone had posted on here last year about using their Heritage 150p dob on an az-gti mount (which I really like the look of but had discounted as they don't do a 6" in the range) so that's maybe something for me to consider if I feel like I want goto for fun without going full EQ - must admit it hadn't occurred to me that could be done 🤦🏻‍♀️ I clearly have a LOT to learn!

 

There's loads of ways to mix and match. For instance, I have mounted on an AZ-GTI (or AZ5), a cut price customer return 150i tube modified with a new focuser. The supplied fixed vixen dovetail removed and replaced with tube rings to counter the imbalance caused by a heavier focuser. I wanted to use as much aperture as possible on the AZ-GTI without straining the mount and the Heritage 150 didn't exist at the time.

Edited January 19, 2021 by ScouseSpaceCadet

[MiladyB]

55 minutes ago, ScouseSpaceCadet said:

There's loads of ways to mix and match. For instance, I have mounted on an AZ-GTI (or AZ5), a cut price customer return 150i tube modified with a new focuser. The supplied fixed vixen dovetail removed and replaced with tube rings to counter the imbalance caused by a heavier focuser. I wanted to use as much aperture as possible on the AZ-GTI without straining the mount and the Heritage 150 didn't exist at the time.

Nifty!

I'm itching to get going with some kit now.

[Pixies]

Depending on how far you are willing to pack things up each time, a larger dob doesn't take up much more room than a small scope on a tripod:

 

[MiladyB]

Love that! When we eventually move out of the city, I'd love a permanent pier in the garden to put a really big dob on, but being able to pack down for taking camping is a must right now, and the car is always full to the gunwales as it is! 😄

Edited January 19, 2021 by MiladyB

[AlexK]

2 hours ago, MiladyB said:

Love that! When we eventually move out of the city, I'd love a permanent pier in the garden to put a really big dob on, but being able to pack down for taking camping is a must right now, and the car is always full to the gunwales as it is! 😄

Mine is too, so I do just this:

And that's a full OTA 12" Dob:

Which is stored at home simply standing upside down in the rather shallow wall wardrobe.

Just a little investment into a DIY transporting system.

Plenty of really decent advice above. My 2 cents is: wherever you end up on your search, a 150mm aperture is about what should be considered the starting point for truly rewarding planetary views with a reflector. So I'd stick to that as a bottom plank.

[bish]

Being purely a visual person I prefer dobs. Having said that I did have a 150p and 200p on EQ3 and EQ5 for years. I have a RA motor which was very useful for keeping things in the fov at high power. I did like being able to go and get a cup of tea and not have to re-align. I never used polaris, just aligned it North.  Obviously AP and GOTO are a different matter

[MiladyB]

9 hours ago, AlexK said:

Mine is too, so I do just this:

And that's a full OTA 12" Dob:

Which is stored at home simply standing upside down in the rather shallow wall wardrobe.

Just a little investment into a DIY transporting system.

Plenty of really decent advice above. My 2 cents is: wherever you end up on your search, a 150mm aperture is about what should be considered the starting point for truly rewarding planetary views with a reflector. So I'd stick to that as a bottom plank.

WOW! 😯 That's brilliant. Something to consider for the future 😁

[Stu]

On 19/01/2021 at 15:01, Tiny Clanger said:

Yep, most current scopes have a standard rail attached to their tube, the usual size is often referred to as a Synta or Vixen rail or bar or dovetail  ...  all those names seem interchangeable as far as I can see (please someone correct me if I'm wrong, the vagueness of the naming annoys me, I appreciate different manufacturers want to make their own brand distinct, but it's accursedly confusing !))    The length of the bar/rail/dovetail allows you to adjust the precise balance point,  different accessories on a 'scope will affect it

Similarly , most mounts have a standard dovetail clamp of matching size.
The heritage 150 has a standard vixen/synta/rail/bar/clamp/dovetail/whatever the heck, and the tabletop dob stand it comes with has the matching clamp , so the telescope tube can be taken off and shifted to any mount with a suitable matching clamp.

One thing to be aware of though, which may be a limiting factor if you are thinking aha ! Buy Heritage 150 (or 130 for that matter) now, and buy expensive tripod & EQ mount later to move it to ... There is a good reason why reflector 'scopes on EQ mounts have rings which their standard vixen/synta/rail/bar/clamp/dovetail/whatever-the-heck is fixed to. It is so that when the angle of the telescope makes it really hard to get your face in position to see through the telescope eyepiece, you can loosen the rings a little, and turn the telescope inside them, so the eyepiece tube rotates to a more convenient angle.

The Heritage 150 (did I mention how much I love mine ? 😀  It's a great little simple 'scope ) does not have tube rings, but rather a bolted in place rail (bar/vixen  etc etc ... ) You could add tube rings afterwards , but they cost quite a bit, and I think would have to be carefully selected to not interfere with the mechanism which allows the tube to, um , telescope down .

Don't be put off the heritage 150 , the simple dob base means you get a lot of telescope for  your money, rather than a similarly priced package which includes a flimsy cheap EQ and necessarily cheaper optics. If you started with visual, and thought you might want to move on to astro photo eventually, the heritage 150 could be supplemented with a more specialist 'scope & mount when you are ready, it is well regarded as a 'grab & go' option by folk with bigger instruments , or I suspect if you decided to move on from it, selling a heritage 150 second hand would see plenty of eager buyers ...

Heather

 

 

Great post Heather. You are right about the lack of rings on the Heritage scopes being a potential issue. I use mine on an Ercole Alt Az mount and the benefit for visual is that the eyepiece stays in a convenient position. I did move the dovetail bar on my 130p as it seemed a little awkward in terms of eyepiece position on an alt az.

I love my little 150p too. Despite having a number of (much) more expensive scopes, often choose the 150p for sheer convenience, and also on nights when it is particularly dewy and I would rather not get one of my lovely refractors completely fogged up. Great little scopes, and surprisingly capable. I’ve split doubles I never thought I could split with such an entry level scope, just goes to show you don’t need top end kit to get pleasure out of the hobby.

[Tiny Clanger]

8 minutes ago, Stu said:

Great post Heather. You are right about the lack of rings on the Heritage scopes being a potential issue. I use mine on an Ercole Alt Az mount and the benefit for visual is that the eyepiece stays in a convenient position. I did move the dovetail bar on my 130p as it seemed a little awkward in terms of eyepiece position on an alt az.

I love my little 150p too. Despite having a number of (much) more expensive scopes, often choose the 150p for sheer convenience, and also on nights when it is particularly dewy and I would rather not get one of my lovely refractors completely fogged up. Great little scopes, and surprisingly capable. I’ve split doubles I never thought I could split with such an entry level scope, just goes to show you don’t need top end kit to get pleasure out of the hobby.

Thanks Stu,

Funny thing ,  now I've an az5 on a hefty old Manfrotto tripod for the little mak , but whilst aware that I could try the dob on it, for some reason I've not yet wanted to !

I suppose good observing time has been at too much of a premium since new year , so on the odd night I've managed it's been a scramble to get the dob outside asap before the window of good sky opportunity closes . Best keep it simple under the circumstances, but I'm sure I'll mix & match at some point.

The Jones-bird celestron 114 EQ I inherited put me right off EQ mounts ,  I don't doubt the very expensive EQs are ideal for imaging , but can't see much point in EQ for visual use , especially not at the cheap end of the market , which is where I am . 😀

Heather

[andyman]

You say you've not got room for 10 inch dob lol...you can get the 250px flextube ..easy to store easy to transport and will give you the biggest bang for your buck

[MiladyB]

19 hours ago, andyman said:

You say you've not got room for 10 inch dob lol...you can get the 250px flextube ..easy to store easy to transport and will give you the biggest bang for your buck

They look amazing. SO tempting, but at nearly 30kg I'd struggle to manoeuvre it into the garden. 😭

[MiladyB]

On 21/01/2021 at 00:38, andyman said:

You say you've not got room for 10 inch dob lol...you can get the 250px flextube ..easy to store easy to transport and will give you the biggest bang for your buck

I made the mistake of looking at this with my husband, who suggested where we could store one for easy access to the garden and now it's a distinct possibility we'll look at getting one - at some point, at least - perhaps just not to begin with. 😯

[AstroNebulee]

On 20/01/2021 at 20:26, Tiny Clanger said:

Funny thing ,  now I've an az5 on a hefty old Manfrotto tripod for the little mak , but whilst aware that I could try the dob on it, for some reason I've not yet wanted to !

Hi Heather, what mak and manfrotto tripod do you pocess, I looked and manfrotto compared to my az gti tripod but not sure how much difference