17.5mm Morpheus queries

[Paz]

My long term hunt for ideal binoviewing eyepieces goes on.

I'm looking more seriously at a pair of 17.5mm Morpheus and have some queries below...

I understand the 17.5mm needs slightly more in focus than other Morpheus eyepieces but would anyone know how much infocus (or outfocus) it would need compared to a 20mm SLV or 30mm NPL as I know I can reach focus with those.

Apparently it has 23mm of eye relief bit is that from the surface of the glass, I would like to know if it has a genuine 20mm eye relief from the lip of the rim that your glasses would rest on.

[John]

I can't help on the eye relief issue although I believe the Morpheus design generally comes closeer to delivering the full claimed eye relief than many other designs.

If you are planning to use them for binoviewing it's worth checking out if they will work for you. I notice someone selling a Morpheus 17.5 on UK AB&S who bought a pair with the same thing in mind but found difficulties:

https://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview.php?view=169727

 

 

Edited January 9, 2021 by John

[Don Pensack]

17 hours ago, Paz said:

My long term hunt for ideal binoviewing eyepieces goes on.

I'm looking more seriously at a pair of 17.5mm Morpheus and have some queries below...

I understand the 17.5mm needs slightly more in focus than other Morpheus eyepieces but would anyone know how much infocus (or outfocus) it would need compared to a 20mm SLV or 30mm NPL as I know I can reach focus with those.

Apparently it has 23mm of eye relief bit is that from the surface of the glass, I would like to know if it has a genuine 20mm eye relief from the lip of the rim that your glasses would rest on.

1. It requires 2.5mm of in-travel compared to other 1.25" eyepieces that have their focal planes at the shoulder of the eyepiece.  I doubt that little amount of travel will cause a problem.

2. I can actually get too close to the eyepiece while wearing glasses and experience blackouts.  I would guess it might even be a little more than 20mm of effective eye relief.

I have a lot of eyepieces that are compatible with glasses, but none has more than the 17.5mm.  If you wear glasses, you needn't worry.

There is only one category of glasses that might not work:  if the lens of your glasses is so large it presses against your eyebrow and you have deepset eyes, then the distance from your pupil to the outside of the eyeglasses lens

might be quite large.  You'll still see the field, but it could possibly be reduced.  But if the SLV works for you, the 17.5mm Morpheus will be just fine.

[Paz]

23 hours ago, John said:

I can't help on the eye relief issue although I believe the Morpheus design generally comes closeer to delivering the full claimed eye relief than many other designs.

If you are planning to use them for binoviewing it's worth checking out if they will work for you. I notice someone selling a Morpheus 17.5 on UK AB&S who bought a pair with the same thing in mind but found difficulties:

https://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview.php?view=169727

 

 

Thanks, I saw that and noticed they found them too wide. I managed to find a schematic of the barrel dimensions and I think that they would be fine for me. I can get a clean field stop in both eyes and with glasses on  with delos, having out put a 17.3mm and 12mm Delos in my binoviewer side by side and looking through with no nosepiece/scope, in fact I have a bit of room to spare.  I think the Morpheus is similar in dimensions at the lense so would be ok.

[Paz]

6 hours ago, Don Pensack said:

1. It requires 2.5mm of in-travel compared to other 1.25" eyepieces that have their focal planes at the shoulder of the eyepiece.  I doubt that little amount of travel will cause a problem.

2. I can actually get too close to the eyepiece while wearing glasses and experience blackouts.  I would guess it might even be a little more than 20mm of effective eye relief.

I have a lot of eyepieces that are compatible with glasses, but none has more than the 17.5mm.  If you wear glasses, you needn't worry.

There is only one category of glasses that might not work:  if the lens of your glasses is so large it presses against your eyebrow and you have deepset eyes, then the distance from your pupil to the outside of the eyeglasses lens

might be quite large.  You'll still see the field, but it could possibly be reduced.  But if the SLV works for you, the 17.5mm Morpheus will be just fine.

Thanks, I think then they would be fine. I can get by with about 19mm from where my glasses rest.

It's impressive how they put something together with such long eyerelief, large afov, and that is so light. I notice the 17.5 Morpheus is  about 1/3rd lighter than the 17.3  Delos which adds to quite a weight saving when there's two of them.

[Louis D]

1 hour ago, Paz said:

I notice the 17.5 Morpheus is  about 1/3rd lighter than the 17.3  Delos which adds to quite a weight saving when there's two of them.

Probably due to the use of engineered plastic case materials in the Morpheus and brass or another dense metal in the Delos.  Delrin and aluminum bodied eyepieces are both noticeably lighter than their brass counterparts.  One downside to them is that the threads can be cross-threaded more easily, so filters and disassembly/reassembly can be problematic.

[Don Pensack]

19 hours ago, Louis D said:

Probably due to the use of engineered plastic case materials in the Morpheus and brass or another dense metal in the Delos.  Delrin and aluminum bodied eyepieces are both noticeably lighter than their brass counterparts.  One downside to them is that the threads can be cross-threaded more easily, so filters and disassembly/reassembly can be problematic.

No plastic in the Morpheus--it's aluminum. 

Per Baader: "

• Hard aluminium alloy with industrial quality UV-stabilized anodizing surrounds a set of 8 lenses with one ED- and two Lanthanum elements.

However, the 17.3mm Delos has a chromed brass lower barrel, and is a bit longer, and might possibly have more elements internally.

Nope.  I stand corrected--the element count is the same.  The 100g difference must be in the outer barrels mostly and perhaps the thickness of internal elements somewhat.

Edited January 11, 2021 by Don Pensack

[John]

30 minutes ago, Don Pensack said:

No plastic in the Morpheus--it's aluminum. 

Per Baader: "

• Hard aluminium alloy with industrial quality UV-stabilized anodizing surrounds a set of 8 lenses with one ED- and two Lanthanum elements.

However, the 17.3mm Delos has a chromed brass lower barrel, and is a bit longer, and might possibly have more elements internally.

Nope.  I stand corrected--the element count is the same.  The 100g difference must be in the outer barrels mostly and perhaps the thickness of internal elements somewhat.

If the Morpheus body is made from the same stuff as the Baader Classic's then it's light and tough. Same factory perhaps ?

 

[Louis D]

54 minutes ago, Don Pensack said:

However, the 17.3mm Delos has a chromed brass lower barrel, and is a bit longer, and might possibly have more elements internally.

Are you implying the Delos's upper barrel is also aluminum and only the lower barrel is brass?  What has been the industry standard for the upper barrel?  I know chromed brass has been the standard for the lower barrel for years, but I really have no idea about the upper barrel metal.

Siebert has been using aluminum upper barrels to make his eyepieces lighter than they would otherwise appear to be.  Russell uses Delrin for his eyepiece barrels that makes them even lighter yet.

[F15Rules]

21 hours ago, Paz said:

Thanks, I think then they would be fine. I can get by with about 19mm from where my glasses rest.

It's impressive how they put something together with such long eyerelief, large afov, and that is so light. I notice the 17.5 Morpheus is  about 1/3rd lighter than the 17.3  Delos which adds to quite a weight saving when there's two of them.

Hi Chris,

The 17.5mm is the smallest physical size and weight of the Morpheus range. It was also the longest in development, taking some 3 years to launch after the other sizes which topped out at 14mm until the 17.5mm appeared.

I think Baader knew that if they could slim the outer dimensions down enough, they would have a binoviewing winning pair to offer to the market.

Having not been out under the stars for some weeks due to poor weather, I was really struck two nights ago by just how superb M42 looks in the Morpheus 17.5mm, just wonderful.

I do know someone who sadly found their IPD just a tad tight with these, but he readily acknowledged their optical excellence and was genuinely disappointed that he couldn't use a pair (I believe he still has a single).

At present I only have a single 17.5mm, but until quite recently I did have a pair of them and in my Revelation binoviewers the views of the moon were jaw dropping. I do plan before too long to acquire another Morpheus 17.5mm and also to upgrade to the new Maxbright II binoviewers, and would heartily recommend this lovely eyepiece pair.

Dave

 

[Don Pensack]

On 11/01/2021 at 12:27, Louis D said:

Are you implying the Delos's upper barrel is also aluminum and only the lower barrel is brass?  What has been the industry standard for the upper barrel?  I know chromed brass has been the standard for the lower barrel for years, but I really have no idea about the upper barrel metal.

Siebert has been using aluminum upper barrels to make his eyepieces lighter than they would otherwise appear to be.  Russell uses Delrin for his eyepiece barrels that makes them even lighter yet.

The Delos' upper barrel, like all TeleVue eyepieces, is aluminum.

I forgot about the two-part adjustable eyecup on the Delos.  Add the weight of that plus the chromed brass lower barrel, and that pretty much accounts for the weight difference with the Morpheus.

[Paz]

Just a note to update, I could not in the end call a clear personal preference for Morpheus or Delos and was getting a bit annoyed with myself for becoming paralysed about it.

I decided to go back to my basic strategy of sticking to second hand stuff at second hand prices so decided to wait and go for whatever came up first through that route.

I was expecting a long wait but would you know it only a week or so later a second hand  17.3mm Delos has fallen into my lap so that has settled it.

Thanks for all the comments and contributions to the thread.

Now on the the next step of getting the pair of Delos working in binoviewers!

[Laurence Behney]

I have a pair of 17.5 Morphei that I use with my TV Bino vue. I have to use the TV 2X amplifier to reach focus, but that actually helps when viewing the moon in my refractor to get me at a nice magnification to see detail at about a 1 mm exit pupil. I think they are wonderful eyepieces. I compared a 4.5 Delos and a 4.5 Morpheus in my refractor on a double star using the same telescope and diagonal and target on the same night. After switching between the two of them several times, the Delos had slightly less glare around the brighter component. This is the only difference I could distinguish between the two 4.5 mm eyepieces. 

I have a question, I see many people discuss taking rather extraordinary measures to avoid using a glass path compensator and I don't know why this is being done. Is it in an attempt to get a wider fov than a pair of 40 mm plossl eyepieces?

[Paz]

Yes I think it is to get the lowest magnification or widest true field of view.

I have to use at least 1.25x correction to get my refractors to focus with my binoviewer (and I have to use a corrector if I want to fix the abberations caused by my binoviewer).

However I think there are some binoviewers that don't need correction and that have shorter light paths and wider field stops so you can attain lower powers and wider views.

[F15Rules]

On 28/03/2022 at 08:11, Paz said:

Yes I think it is to get the lowest magnification or widest true field of view.

I have to use at least 1.25x correction to get my refractors to focus with my binoviewer (and I have to use a corrector if I want to fix the abberations caused by my binoviewer).

However I think there are some binoviewers that don't need correction and that have shorter light paths and wider field stops so you can attain lower powers and wider views.

Agreed, Chris.

That's why I like the T2 Baader system so much..good, secure connections with the shortest possible light path👍.

Dave