Skywatcher Dobsonians?

[Ray Mondo]

Hi,

Can anyone help please?

I have a budget of £500 ish. 
 

I want to look as close as I can at the moon and other planets and take photos of the moon also.

I would also like to see some DSOs as well.

I’ve been looking at the 200p and the 250px Dobs but if I went with the 250 I wouldn’t be able to afford more eye pieces for now so I was thinking of the 200p which would allow to get better glass and a Barlow. 
 

which would be the best route?

would I be best getting the 250 until I can afford the extra glass etc?

 

Thanks
 

 

[wulfrun]

As long as you're ok with the extra bulk and weight of the 250, you probably won't regret waiting a bit for extra glass. Aperture is rarely a disadvantage as long as the weight & bulk aren't. For your budget, you could just about squeeze a decent short-focal length eyepiece or a zoom, like the OVL Hyperflex 7.2-21.5mm and still get the 250. The supplied 25mm eyepiece is OK-ish but the 10mm isn't very good, so either of the options I just mentioned would get you set for a while. Something to think about.

[Waddensky]

Con 10": the 10" is larger and heavier than the 8", and also a lot faster (lower focal ratio), so you might need more expensive eyepieces to get acceptable views.

Pro 10": increased light grasp (although that is more important for deep-sky observation) and better resolution (more details on planets and Moon). Keep in mind that the latter also depends on the stability of the atmosphere and that might be the limiting factor on most nights.

The eyepieces that come with these scopes are acceptable enough to get started without the need to invest in other equipment. A quick snapshot of the Moon is possible, but in general a dobson is not very well suited for photography.

[Ray Mondo]

46 minutes ago, wulfrun said:

As long as you're ok with the extra bulk and weight of the 250, you probably won't regret waiting a bit for extra glass. Aperture is rarely a disadvantage as long as the weight & bulk aren't. For your budget, you could just about squeeze a decent short-focal length eyepiece or a zoom, like the OVL Hyperflex 7.2-21.5mm and still get the 250. The supplied 25mm eyepiece is OK-ish but the 10mm isn't very good, so either of the options I just mentioned would get you set for a while. Something to think about.

Thanks for your help

[Ray Mondo]

39 minutes ago, Waddensky said:

Con 10": the 10" is larger and heavier than the 8", and also a lot faster (lower focal ratio), so you might need more expensive eyepieces to get acceptable views.

Pro 10": increased light grasp (although that is more important for deep-sky observation) and better resolution (more details on planets and Moon). Keep in mind that the latter also depends on the stability of the atmosphere and that might be the limiting factor on most nights.

The eyepieces that come with these scopes are acceptable enough to get started without the need to invest in other equipment. A quick snapshot of the Moon is possible, but in general a dobson is not very well suited for photography.

Thanks for your help

[westmarch]

Hi there,

you might also consider a second hand 250mm Dob. Most are either well looked after or have been rarely used.  If the main mirror is in good nick, any other problems are relatively easy to fix (the folks here are  very willing and able to advise). That might help you stay in budget, get the most aperture and leave something over for eyepieces.

Hope you find something that suits.

John

[200pman]

There all good.just depends on you really.

How much you are prepared to carry around .i have had a 200p for several years now.and ive been very pleased with it.

The other thing is the 200p will  easily fit in my little fiesta.

I have purchased a full set of BST eyepieces which are a big improvement over the std eyepieces.

I have enjoyed the 200p .yes there are better scopes out there.

But value for money its a great scope.

And i have no ambition to buy any other scope now or in the future.

Regards.

[Spile]

There is a very good offer that has just been posted on here by FLO for a returned 200P.

That is what I have and very happy with the quality, size and performance.

I added a Baader Hyperion IV Zoom / Barlow which gives me the ability to easily move from 50X and 338X magnification and all points in between.

[Ray Mondo]

4 hours ago, 200pman said:

There all good.just depends on you really.

How much you are prepared to carry around .i have had a 200p for several years now.and ive been very pleased with it.

The other thing is the 200p will  easily fit in my little fiesta.

I have purchased a full set of BST eyepieces which are a big improvement over the std eyepieces.

I have enjoyed the 200p .yes there are better scopes out there.

But value for money its a great scope.

And i have no ambition to buy any other scope now or in the future.

Regards.

 

2 hours ago, Spile said:

There is a very good offer that has just been posted on here by FLO for a returned 200P.

That is what I have and very happy with the quality, size and performance.

I added a Baader Hyperion IV Zoom / Barlow which gives me the ability to easily move from 50X and 338X magnification and all points in between.

Thanks for your replies, 

I wish I could compare the 200 and 250 side by side with the exact same eyepieces. 
 

if the 200 performed with a negligible difference I would get the 200 as it’s quite a bit smaller.

I’ve tried searching for images taken of the moon with both but they’re all stacked images. 
 

Thanks for the heads up on the FLO return. 
 

Regards

[wulfrun]

49 minutes ago, Ray Mondo said:

I wish I could compare the 200 and 250 side by side with the exact same eyepieces.

Visually there'd be precious little difference on the Moon. They have the same focal length so the same eyepieces would give the same magnification. The 250 would just give a slightly brighter view since it gathers 56% more light. Visually that won't appear half as bright again. If your eyes (and the conditions) permit, technically there's a higher level of detail (resolution). Photos could be taken at a slightly higher shutter speed for a given exposure using the 250.

Edited January 8, 2021 by wulfrun

[westmarch]

To be honest you will not see much difference with the moon.  It is so bright that aperture is not an issue.  Bigger dobs come into their own with faint objects such as deep sky objects. If these aren’t your priority  then the 200 will probably be your best bet.

regards

John

 

[John]

Where you notice additional aperture is the resolution of deep sky objects such as globular clusters (actually particularly those). On high resolution targets such as the moon, planets and double stars, the difference will be less and the 200P with it's F/6 focal ratio and smaller secondary might even have the edge.

 

 

[callisto]

4 hours ago, Spile said:

There is a very good offer that has just been posted on here by FLO for a returned 200P

+1 for that 👍

[Ray Mondo]

Thanks for everyone’s help, it’s very appreciated. 
 

Ive heard that the 10” may struggle in the UK with atmospheric conditions and the 8” may be better. 
 

it’s a tuff one really. 
 

 

[Ray Mondo]

Will a Barlow help the 8” or does a better quality eyepiece with a lower number do a better job?

[Ande]

1 hour ago, Ray Mondo said:

 

Thanks for your replies, 

I wish I could compare the 200 and 250 side by side with the exact same eyepieces. 
 

if the 200 performed with a negligible difference I would get the 200 as it’s quite a bit smaller.

I’ve tried searching for images taken of the moon with both but they’re all stacked images. 
 

Thanks for the heads up on the FLO return. 
 

Regards

I had the 250 dob, and took a quick snap of the moon. This was no more than my old Samsung phone held up to the eyepiece.  So no, definitely not stacked, 😀

[Pixies]

Here's an 8" dob view of the moon with a DSLR attached directly. No processing.

 

[Whistlin Bob]

I feel for you a bit here- you're caught on the horns of a dilemma and no amount of good advice is going to make your mind up for you. The reason for that is that both scopes are more than capable of covering your stated needs and more besides, so no-one is going to be able to point out a killer reason for you to jump one way or the other. 

I got into astronomy 5 years ago with a 200p. I love it and I still use it a lot (5 minutes ago in fact- I'm just thawing out a bit before going back out!) despite the fact I now have a 14" too.  I've also used several ten inch dobs and they're a little bit better but not much. In your shoes I would probably go for the extra aperture, mainly because otherwise I'd always be wondering, but if you do go for the 8 inch you'll still have a great scope.

[Ray Mondo]

13 hours ago, Whistlin Bob said:

I feel for you a bit here- you're caught on the horns of a dilemma and no amount of good advice is going to make your mind up for you. The reason for that is that both scopes are more than capable of covering your stated needs and more besides, so no-one is going to be able to point out a killer reason for you to jump one way or the other. 

I got into astronomy 5 years ago with a 200p. I love it and I still use it a lot (5 minutes ago in fact- I'm just thawing out a bit before going back out!) despite the fact I now have a 14" too.  I've also used several ten inch dobs and they're a little bit better but not much. In your shoes I would probably go for the extra aperture, mainly because otherwise I'd always be wondering, but if you do go for the 8 inch you'll still have a great scope.

Thanks for the reply. 
 

I do feel a bit lost but it’s the budget and portability/storage I’m thinking twice about. 
 

If I go with the 250 I’ve blown my budget for now and I wanted a quality eyepiece and a Cheshire. 
 

Im thinking of this combo (see pic), any thoughts?

Thanks

[Ian McCallum]

I know it's a pain having to wait, but I'd plump for the 200P.  That's the model I have and I'm biased...   😉  @Barry-W-Fenner had the 200P, then upsized to a larger model.  He ended up replacing a load of his BST Starguider eyepieces because they didn't quite cut the mustard on the larger Dobsonian.  I've got the full range of BST Starguider eyepieces and they are very good quality eyepieces, for most telescopes and most people.

[Waddensky]

1 hour ago, Ray Mondo said:

Im thinking of this combo (see pic), any thoughts?

Great combination. The zoom is excellent and combined with the barlow gives you a great range of magnifications to choose from. Although the highest mags (350x-ish) are probably too much for most nights, the set gives you room to find out what the conditions allow.

[Pixies]

Be aware that the zoom's FOV decreases as you zoom 'out'. It means that it's not great when acting as a wide-angled finder view.

Another option is to get the equally well-reviewed OVL Hyperflex zoom (7.2-21.5) and an additional 30mm (or thereabouts) eyepiece. At a min focal length of 7.2mm, you won't need to immediately get a barlow.

I have the Baader zoom and matching barlow, but managed to get them secondhand. You often see them for sale, so perhaps you don't need to order at the same time. If the scope if going to be many weeks' wait, perhaps keep the cash and watch the usual places for suitable secondhand bargains?

Also, you'll find that many new dob owners swap the straight finder for a Telrad/RACI combo. But there's no rush for that.

Edited January 10, 2021 by Pixies

[Whistlin Bob]

2 hours ago, Ray Mondo said:

Im thinking of this combo (see pic), any thoughts?

That's very similar to my setup and I'm very happy with it.  If you order the 200p, you can keep an eye on the 2nd hand market and if one comes up in the meantime you can cancel and save yourself both a wait and some money. Most  astronomers seem to take good care of their gear and a Dob is a very simple piece of equipment: there really isn't much to go wrong if the mirrors are ok.

I also use the Baader zoom and find it excellent, although as @Pixies points out the Hyperflex is a fair bit cheaper and seems to be very well thought of (I haven't any experience of it myself).

The other point I'd make is that I have the matching Barlow for the Baader zoom, but almost never use it. I bought it at the time because it seemed logical and I was seduced by the idea of greater magnification- but in fact I find that the extra power on a 1200mm scope rarely improves the view- I have a 7mm Celestron with a larger FOV than the Baader and this seems about the optimum high power for the Skywatcher. I know you're on a budget, but the other items to consider that have really helped me are:

- A RACI finder. It prevents you needing to do Yoga to find an object when searching near the zenith.

- A Rigel, Telrad or cheap RDF finder. I use this to place the scope approximately. Whether you need either or both of these will depend a lot upon your skies. The better your skies, the easier a task it is to find stuff. I live in suburbia and it isn't easy!!

- Something adjustable to sit on- like an ironing chair or a drummers stool. Being comfortable whilst observing really adds to the pleasure of a session. I do quite a lot of imaging- which is nowhere near as relaxing- and I have a stressful job. Gazing into deep space is almost therapy for me- being uncomfortable spoils the experience!

Good luck with whichever path you take.

[Ray Mondo]

2 hours ago, Pixies said:

Be aware that the zoom's FOV decreases as you zoom 'out'. It means that it's not great when acting as a wide-angled finder view.

Another option is to get the equally well-reviewed OVL Hyperflex zoom (7.2-21.5) and an additional 30mm (or thereabouts) eyepiece. At a min focal length of 7.2mm, you won't need to immediately get a barlow.

I have the Baader zoom and matching barlow, but managed to get them secondhand. You often see them for sale, so perhaps you don't need to order at the same time. If the scope if going to be many weeks' wait, perhaps keep the cash and watch the usual places for suitable secondhand bargains?

Also, you'll find that many new dob owners swap the straight finder for a Telrad/RACI combo. But there's no rush for that.

Thanks for your advice 👍

[Ray Mondo]

1 hour ago, Whistlin Bob said:

That's very similar to my setup and I'm very happy with it.  If you order the 200p, you can keep an eye on the 2nd hand market and if one comes up in the meantime you can cancel and save yourself both a wait and some money. Most  astronomers seem to take good care of their gear and a Dob is a very simple piece of equipment: there really isn't much to go wrong if the mirrors are ok.

I also use the Baader zoom and find it excellent, although as @Pixies points out the Hyperflex is a fair bit cheaper and seems to be very well thought of (I haven't any experience of it myself).

The other point I'd make is that I have the matching Barlow for the Baader zoom, but almost never use it. I bought it at the time because it seemed logical and I was seduced by the idea of greater magnification- but in fact I find that the extra power on a 1200mm scope rarely improves the view- I have a 7mm Celestron with a larger FOV than the Baader and this seems about the optimum high power for the Skywatcher. I know you're on a budget, but the other items to consider that have really helped me are:

- A RACI finder. It prevents you needing to do Yoga to find an object when searching near the zenith.

- A Rigel, Telrad or cheap RDF finder. I use this to place the scope approximately. Whether you need either or both of these will depend a lot upon your skies. The better your skies, the easier a task it is to find stuff. I live in suburbia and it isn't easy!!

- Something adjustable to sit on- like an ironing chair or a drummers stool. Being comfortable whilst observing really adds to the pleasure of a session. I do quite a lot of imaging- which is nowhere near as relaxing- and I have a stressful job. Gazing into deep space is almost therapy for me- being uncomfortable spoils the experience!

Good luck with whichever path you take.

Thanks for your help 👍