1st telescope

[Jurger]

Good evening. 

It appears that new telescopes  are few and far between atm. I have read on here that some companies advertise as 'low stock' just so you ring up and they harvest your details for a future sale!

Anyhow, was looking at this 

https://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/bresser-messier-nt-2031000-hexafoc-exos-2-goto-telescope.html

Was looking at a similar priced Skywatcher but it's not available. 

I'm not massively fussed as to whether I want to look at the planets, or deep sky objects. Either will do. Will likely want to attach a DSLR to take snaps of whatever!

2nd hand isn't an option as I intend on adding to my monthly direct debits!!

TIA!

[jonathan]

I have no experience of Bresser equipment myself, but just going by the item photos and description (ignoring the boasts about Jupiter's surface), it looks like a fairly typical 200mm Newtonian Reflector on a mount that may be nearing it's limit with the scope and accessories mounted (looking at the size of the mount and the width of the tripod legs, digging deeper I find the mount+tripod have a carrying capacity of 13kg and the telescope weighs 10kg).  I have a 150P Skywatcher reflector that would sit quite happily on a mount of that size (I am guessing it is similar to a Celestron CG4 mount with 1.75" tubular steel legs), so the 200 will be slightly larger and heavier, the upshot might be increased vibrations which take longer to settle every time the scope or mount are touched (e.g. focusing or slewing to a different target) and also might be affected more easily by wind.  A more sturdy mount for such a telescope would be the Skywatcher EQ5 Pro or equivalent, not essential for visual use but more important for smooth guiding / tracking if doing long exposure photography.

The telescope itself is probably a decent performer, you should be able to see several cloud bands on Jupiter, the rings of Saturn, plenty of shape and detail in the Orion Nebula, perhaps even some of the dust lanes in the Andromeda Galaxy (depends a lot on sky conditions and how good your eyesight is), plenty of moon detail too.  The camera mount is exactly as pictured - the camera piggy-backs onto the scope body and thus uses it's own lens, to attach the camera to the focuser for through-the-telescope shots you'd probably need to also purchase an extension tube and also a T-ring specific to your camera.

The straight-through 8x50 finder looks good but could be awkward to use and possibly confusing / difficult for a beginner, this could be replaced with an easier RACI finder or red dot finder of course but at additional cost.  Being a goto you might only need to use it for initial alignment each session so not such a problem, so long as it's aligned with the telescope correctly (something you should probably check at the start of each session using a distant chimney or an easily identifiable landmark).

The power pack is described as 12v made up of D cells, I wouldn't bother with that (it sounds very similar to the one that came with my CG4 mount, except mine was 6v) and instead go for either a dedicated 12v telescope power pack (one of the newer litium-wotsit ones, not a lead-acid battery type) or a small 12v leisure battery (when I say small, I mean small for a leisure battery - probably the size of a small car battery).  Much more power, longer lasting and easier to handle than fiddly D cells, just requires a decent smart car battery charger to maintain (one that can charge leisure batteries).  If going for the 12v battery you'd probably have to purchase a suitable 12v power cable and a simple lead acid battery terminals to cigar lighter type "auto" socket adaptor (which a typical 12v telescope power cable will plug into).  You could also use a mains power adaptor to provide the 12v supply, it would need to be one that could provide 2A minimum, preferably more like 5A to prevent overloading, and depending on the supplied fittings you may need to buy the appropriate telescope power cable as before.

Others may know more details about this particular Bresser reflector telescope, this is just my opinion based on experience and the item description.

Edited January 2, 2021 by jonathan

[Owmuchonomy]

Newtonians on EQ mounts can present uncomfortable eyepiece positions for the observer, necessitating tube rotation within the rings when moving around the night sky.  If you can live with that then an 8" Newtonian gives pretty good views (ignore the hype in the Ad).  I have no experience of the GoTo software on that mount so cannot comment on accuracy, software support etc. 

[johninderby]

The Bresser Exos-2 mount is basicly a bit heavier duty version of the EQ5 and will carry a few more kg payload but would prefer at least an HEQ5 with that OTA. As above a newt on an EQ mount can quite literally be a pain in the neck for visual observing due to the awkward postions the eyepiece can be in.

https://www.skyatnightmagazine.com/reviews/mounts/bresser-exos-2-go-to-mount/

For planetary observing a mak or classical cassegrain perhaps.

Edited January 2, 2021 by johninderby

[Waddensky]

Well, they certainly have a PR department 😉.

The scope is probably fine, but as others have said the mount is too light to carry the weight of the tube. And keep in mind that a large portion of the price is for the GOTO system (compare for example with a similar-sized dobson). You can save a lot of money or invest it in a larger scope if you're willing to skip the GOTO.

[johninderby]

Skytee II anyone?

Would handle that OTA easily.

Edited January 2, 2021 by johninderby

[SMF]

Hi,

Its true that many feel a reflector on an EQ mount requires a little effort but I find the eye piece can be readily arranged to present in a comfortable position and bang for buck a reflector is pretty good value and I think very versatile.

I’ve a 200 on an manual EQ5 and am very pleased with it.

I also have a 300 fitted to a dob mount purely because of cost. I’m really not a fan of nudging. An EQ negates this and once polar aligned tracking at high magnification is a pleasure whether manual or motorised. Once I can afford an EQ6 Pro or find one second hand I’ll be trying the 300 on that.

On and off I’ve had a Newtonian of various sizes on EQ mounts since I was 16, almost 40years now and have really enjoyed them.

The effort of rotating the OTA in its rings, to me, is no effort at all and there are measures you can take to assist like adding a third upper supporting ‘slip’ ring. Cant think of another description for it but it helps prevent the OTA sliding down through the primary ones when they are loosened to rotate the tube.

I’d seriously reconsider the second hand option though. There are tremendous savings to be had and I’ve seen a few 200 bargains lately. At least that way if you find the scope is not to your liking you can sell it on again without loosing money through depreciation.

Steve

 

[John]

I find a dob mount holds the scope really steadily and with minimal vibrations even at high magnifications. Tracking quickly becomes 2nd nature as well.

Goodness knows what size and cost of equatorial mount that I would need to have to hold my 12 inch F/5.3 as solidly as my compact and lightweight 18mm ply dobsonian mount does

Not that I'm going to find out. I've owned quite a few EQ mounts over the years up to EQ6 in capacity but I'm alt-azimuth only now and very happy to be that way.

If I imaged of course it would be different. But I don't

 

[Jurger]

Many thanks for the replies. Gives me a bit of food for thought.

This is the Skywatcher I was looking at 

https://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/skywatcher-explorer-200pds-heq5-pro-goto-telescope.html

Would this be a better scope/mount?

Like I said, it'll be for 'general' astronomy and imaging, so is this the kind of thing to be looking at? Not that anywhere has them in stock though!

[Jurger]

Absolutely at my witts end with all of this!

It's my 40th birthday shortly, and the missus was going to buy me a pool table to stick in the garage as I play pool for a pub team......well I did prior to lockdown!

So after telling her that I wanted a telescope, she agreed to buy me the Skywatcher AZ- EQ6 GT Pro mount, and I'd buy the scope myself. However after looking at scopes (still don'tknowwhich one), then the other accessories required etc etc I just feel overwhelmed tbh.

I originally wanted to go into general observation with some AP. But after looking into it (spent the last 4 days on my phone with multiple tabs open), I was leaning towards Deep Sky AP. Hence the £1400 tripod/mount.

It's as if the more I research things, the harder it gets!

Perhaps I should just get a more simple DSO setup, or a pool table!!

[Shimrod]

1 hour ago, Jurger said:

Absolutely at my witts end with all of this!

It's my 40th birthday shortly, and the missus was going to buy me a pool table to stick in the garage as I play pool for a pub team......well I did prior to lockdown!

So after telling her that I wanted a telescope, she agreed to buy me the Skywatcher AZ- EQ6 GT Pro mount, and I'd buy the scope myself. However after looking at scopes (still don'tknowwhich one), then the other accessories required etc etc I just feel overwhelmed tbh.

I originally wanted to go into general observation with some AP. But after looking into it (spent the last 4 days on my phone with multiple tabs open), I was leaning towards Deep Sky AP. Hence the £1400 tripod/mount.

It's as if the more I research things, the harder it gets!

Perhaps I should just get a more simple DSO setup, or a pool table!!

Happiness comes once you accept that you need more than one telescope! Equally there will always be a need for one more eyepiece.

If you have found the mount in stock somewhere I would buy it now. Earlier in the thread you mentioned a DSLR - you could even use that on the mount while waiting for a telescope to arrive. I don't have one myself, but I have read good things on this forum about these: Stellalyra

You generally don't need to rush into buying any accessories - depending on the accessories that come with the scope the only essentials you may need to buy are a diagonal, finderscope and eyepiece (or 2). For imaging a T mount/T adaptor for your DSLR. I would recommend use the scope for a bit first to discover what you like looking at/imaging and then start down the accessory path.

[Jurger]

26 minutes ago, Shimrod said:

Happiness comes once you accept that you need more than one telescope! Equally there will always be a need for one more eyepiece.

If you have found the mount in stock somewhere I would buy it now. Earlier in the thread you mentioned a DSLR - you could even use that on the mount while waiting for a telescope to arrive. I don't have one myself, but I have read good things on this forum about these: Stellalyra

You generally don't need to rush into buying any accessories - depending on the accessories that come with the scope the only essentials you may need to buy are a diagonal, finderscope and eyepiece (or 2). For imaging a T mount/T adaptor for your DSLR. I would recommend use the scope for a bit first to discover what you like looking at/imaging and then start down the accessory path.

Yes I've found the £1400 tripod/mount in stock.

18 years ago, my father bought a 2nd had reflector. Don't know how big it was or what make. But it cost him £80 with the tripod. I remember getting it out in the back garden, and finding Jupiter with it. Don't get me wrong, it looked bloody small. But the detail......looked quite brilliant to me! The reflector wasn't/isn't even that big. Collobration??? Never heard about it back then.

I've since discovered that I  live in a bortle 4 area (I'd question that tbh!), but my parents live in a bortle 3 area, which is a 25 min drive away. I actually remember going out the back of my folks and looking up at the night sky with awe!

Hmmmmm! Perhaps buy the mount, and snaffle the old boys reflector for the time being!

[jonathan]

Don't sweat it too much, I doubt any of us could claim to have got their first telescope / equipment purchase 100% correct!  Each person's expectations and ultimate requirements are going to be slightly different, in time only you will know what's the best kit for you.  A wise person once said (along these lines) - don't worry about perfection, just do it and if necessary do it badly, it might turn out better than you expect.

[Louis D]

On 02/01/2021 at 17:22, John said:

Goodness knows what size and cost of equatorial mount that I would need to have to hold my 12 inch F/5.3 as solidly as my compact and lightweight 18mm ply dobsonian mount does

Probably something like an AP1200 or AP1600 mount or a Parallax HD300C would do nicely. 😉

[John]

3 minutes ago, Louis D said:

Probably something like an AP1200 or AP1600 mount or a Parallax HD300C would do nicely. 😉

Pretty much as I thought - many times more than the scope cost me

 

[Jurger]

So, as it stands.....my missus is buying me a 'slate bed' pool table for my birthday. And I'm buying myself a 10" dob for DSO visual......once they become available again.

Think it's the best way forward atm before my head implodes!

[Jurger]

Bit the bullet and ordered a 10" Bresser Messier dobsonion plus collimator from FLO. 'Hopefully' they should have one within 3 - 4 weeks.

What other 'must have' equipment should I be purchasing? I'm pretty sure a coma corrector is a must? Lord knows why you aren't provided with one if they're such a 'must'!

Looked at upgrading the focuser to the dual speed (£75), but didn't want to batter my credit card in one fell swoop!

Any tips for this particular scope will be much appreciated. 

TIA 

[John]

Coma correctors are only really needed if you use wide angle or very wide angle eyepieces AND the coma distortions that you might see at the edges of the field of view bother you. Many folks use scopes of these specs without a coma corrector quite happily.

If they did include one, such as the Baader one it would add £135 to the price of the scope. If it was a Tele Vue one, it would add nearly £500 to the price of the scope !

I think useful upgrades might be to add a illuminated reticule finder to the scope, the Telrad is very good, a cheshire collimator and a good guide to what to see such as "Turn Left at Orion"

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/finders/telrad-finder-astronomy.html

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/other-collimation-tools/astro-essentials-cheshire-collimating-eyepiece.html

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/books/turn-left-at-orion-book.html

In due course there are almost endless further upgrades to eyepieces, filters etc to consume any disposable income you might have !

Enjoy the scope

 

 

Edited January 18, 2021 by John

[Jurger]

23 minutes ago, John said:

Coma correctors are only really needed if you use wide angle or very wide angle eyepieces AND the coma distortions that you might see at the edges of the field of view bother you. Many folks use scopes of these specs without a coma corrector quite happily.

If they did include one, such as the Baader one it would add £135 to the price of the scope. If it was a Tele Vue one, it would add nearly £500 to the price of the scope !

I think useful upgrades might be to add a illuminated reticule finder to the scope, the Telrad is very good, a cheshire collimator and a good guide to what to see such as "Turn Left at Orion"

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/finders/telrad-finder-astronomy.html

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/other-collimation-tools/astro-essentials-cheshire-collimating-eyepiece.html

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/books/turn-left-at-orion-book.html

In due course there are almost endless further upgrades to eyepieces, filters etc to consume any disposable income you might have !

Enjoy the scope

 

 

Thanks John. I appreciate the comment about the coma corrector, valid point.

Ordered a Cheshire collimater along with the scope. I'll invest in the 'Turn left at Orion' book, seems highly recommended. 

Yeah I'm sure in due course I'll pile loads of money into the hobby! As first mentioned, I was looking into AP, but the sheer cost of even starting out on a decent setup was admittedly out of my debt comfort zone! So I've tried to go biggish and basic to start with!

Looking forward to lugging it up Bootle/Corney fell in the western Lake District on a clear night!

[John]

Yep - get that scope under a really dark sky and the views should be stunning

[Spile]

10 hours ago, Jurger said:

What other 'must have' equipment should I be purchasing? I'm pretty sure a coma corrector is a must? Lord knows why you aren't provided with one if they're such a 'must'!

I took a different approach when I got my 200P and didn’t get any “upgrades” until I had become more familiar with the instrument. I enjoy finding limitations myself and see it as part of an ongoing learning process as I don’t know what direction the hobby will take me. I also like to work with what is in my hands. If I can get results with what I already have , that’s a result for me.

That doesn’t mean I haven’t bought kit. I have a Zoom, Barlow and WA low power EP but it was good to see how the stock EPs performed.

 I haven’t even bought a Cheshire as Gary Seronik’s advice currently covers off that base for me.

I find this approach appeals to my minimalist tendencies and is good for my bank balance.

That said, I would have no hesitation recommending a star atlas, boots, warm socks, hat, accessory bag, red torch and an adjustable chair.