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Raspberry Pi Meteor Detection System


Honcho41

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Hi all,

I'm planning to follow the DIY Astronomy guide in this month's Sky at Night magazine.  I have everything except the camera.  I have a USB camera with the correct chipset but I can't seem to find a way to configure it using CMS.  I was sent this guide by Denis, the Prof who runs the GMN but it is specifically for IP cameras.  Rather than continue to pester him, I thought I'd ask the hive mind here:

Is there a way to configure my USB camera to work with the system?

or

Does anybody know of any UK distributers of this camera on AliExpress (or similar)? I'm hoping to get something quicker than 20-40 days.

Thank you.

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Short answer - yes it's possible. A brief look tells me that the monitoring tool is based heavily on standard raspbian. Long answer - you need a long enough USB cable to plug in to, voltage drop on long runs are going to be the issue you face. I don't have details (but I can have a look tomorrow) but once you plug in your USB camera, you will see a device in the system, its then a case of updating the config to use this device instead of the IP device

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Thank you for your reply MaJiC79,

I have a 3m USB extension which will be long enough to run out to the camera position.  lsusb shows that the camera is connected and I can view a live feed via VLC.  I'm happy the camera is good to go.  The monitoring and capture tool is automated, I just need to work out how to change the device from an IP address to a USB device.  I think I'll email Denis back, I don't really want to break into his scripts without permission.

Edited by Honcho41
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A bit of guesswork as I've not looked at the software at all...

Based on the comments on the SaN page you link to, without modification it appears the code won't work with anything other than an IP camera.  I'd guess the software is fetching frames using HTTP and that the camera in question has a mini webserver built in to deliver them.  That does simplify things a fair bit, but would probably mean that a lot of changes are required to get a USB camera to work.  Some may be supported via the Linux V4L2 interface, but an awful lot aren't.  Your USB camera appears to be UVC-compliant, so V4L2 should support it.  However, you'd almost certainly still need additional code to handle controlling the camera and grabbing the frames.

James

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5 minutes ago, MaJiC79 said:

You're running them on your computer with your hardware, why do you need his permission?

Of course, I wouldn't but it's a courtesy.  I am contributing to his network after all and he might like to be quite specific over the equipment used.

 

15 minutes ago, JamesF said:

A bit of guesswork as I've not looked at the software at all...

Based on the comments on the SaN page you link to, without modification it appears the code won't work with anything other than an IP camera.  I'd guess the software is fetching frames using HTTP and that the camera in question has a mini webserver built in to deliver them.  That does simplify things a fair bit, but would probably mean that a lot of changes are required to get a USB camera to work.  Some may be supported via the Linux V4L2 interface, but an awful lot aren't.  Your USB camera appears to be UVC-compliant, so V4L2 should support it.  However, you'd almost certainly still need additional code to handle controlling the camera and grabbing the frames.

James

Thank you, I've decided to get the IP camera.  I didn't start this out to be challenged with code and config.  I'll just wait a few weeks for shipping and hopefully it'll all come together.

I'll post an update when it's done.

Paul

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Fair point about the network - I can see good reason to want to control that specification.

You can use a program such as Motion to capture the frames and act as a layer between your USB source and the software

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53 minutes ago, Honcho41 said:

That's the one I bought.  It's a USB camera.

I don't necessarily think that's a problem the code appears to support any cameras your RPi works with - it just needs different configuration options.

 

https://github.com/CroatianMeteorNetwork/RMS#capture

 

Note the most recommended camera is analog and uses a USB analog to digital dongle to interface to the RPi.

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5 hours ago, Honcho41 said:

I'm hoping to get something quicker than 20-40 days.

The Aliexpress camera in your link says 10 day delivery. I have found that generally they are not too far off that for items they offer with that delivery time. (At least to Spain, it is that quick!)

There are other things that I would suggest, based on my experience of setting up a completely different meteor detection camera.

First, put much more stuff in the camera enclosure. You do not want the PoE splitter or any ethernet connectors outside "naked" to the elements. They are simply not designed for outside use. Given the enclosure in the article, you could fit the whole shebang, including the RPi in there (without the PoE but with a small router). Though I dislike the idea of running mains voltages outside without "proper" cables designed for the job.

Next, the sensitivity of the camera depends massively on the lens used. IME fisheye lenses are a no-go. Their aperture is simply too small for a sensitive set up. Typically they lose the plot with these IP cameras somewhere around Mag. 3 or 4 as the cameras run at 10-30 FPS, no slower. The best lens to use is a F/0.95 lens. They come in 4mm or 6mm focal lengths but do cost more. This camera would be a better option. Be aware that the field of view of this sort of meteor camera is 90° or so. You will not cover the whole sky and you will miss a lot of meteors. That's just physics.

I have not used the software from the Global Meteor Network. However, those board cameras need a specific set of configuration parameters to get the best (or any) performance out of them. Those are not the as-delivered defaults. I would guess that the GMN software has a means of configuring the cameras. Otherwise you need to load a windows application that only works with Internet Explorer to set them up. 

As far as focusing the camera/lens, this really has to be done at night, using a star and before you mount it in some hard-to-reach location ;) . Daytime focus might look OK, but unless you're very lucky it will be quite a way off at night. And an out of focus camera loses a lot of its expensive sensitivity.

 

HTH

 

P.S. To JamesF. The cameras contain firmware that sends an RTSP stream to a host. That software has to catch the incoming frames off the I.P. connection and (presumably) stack them in semi-real time.

Edited by pete_l
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21 hours ago, pete_l said:

The Aliexpress camera in your link says 10 day delivery. I have found that generally they are not too far off that for items they offer with that delivery time. (At least to Spain, it is that quick!)

There are other things that I would suggest, based on my experience of setting up a completely different meteor detection camera.

First, put much more stuff in the camera enclosure. You do not want the PoE splitter or any ethernet connectors outside "naked" to the elements. They are simply not designed for outside use. Given the enclosure in the article, you could fit the whole shebang, including the RPi in there (without the PoE but with a small router). Though I dislike the idea of running mains voltages outside without "proper" cables designed for the job.

Next, the sensitivity of the camera depends massively on the lens used. IME fisheye lenses are a no-go. Their aperture is simply too small for a sensitive set up. Typically they lose the plot with these IP cameras somewhere around Mag. 3 or 4 as the cameras run at 10-30 FPS, no slower. The best lens to use is a F/0.95 lens. They come in 4mm or 6mm focal lengths but do cost more. This camera would be a better option. Be aware that the field of view of this sort of meteor camera is 90° or so. You will not cover the whole sky and you will miss a lot of meteors. That's just physics.

I have not used the software from the Global Meteor Network. However, those board cameras need a specific set of configuration parameters to get the best (or any) performance out of them. Those are not the as-delivered defaults. I would guess that the GMN software has a means of configuring the cameras. Otherwise you need to load a windows application that only works with Internet Explorer to set them up. 

As far as focusing the camera/lens, this really has to be done at night, using a star and before you mount it in some hard-to-reach location ;) . Daytime focus might look OK, but unless you're very lucky it will be quite a way off at night. And an out of focus camera loses a lot of its expensive sensitivity.

 

HTH

 

P.S. To JamesF. The cameras contain firmware that sends an RTSP stream to a host. That software has to catch the incoming frames off the I.P. connection and (presumably) stack them in semi-real time.

Thank you for the in-depth reply Pete. 

I'm lucky that I have a brick shed with mains power in the garden, and I'll be mounting the camera housing on the side of that.  I can keep all the kit inside and only run the camera cable outside.

Good point on the lens, I didn't know which to use and I punted for a 2.8mm.  I can always order another one if needed.

The cameras need to be setup using CMS on a windows machine first.  This is the issue I have with my current USB camera, I can't find any software like CMS that will allow me to configure the camera for use in the RMS network.

22 hours ago, John78 said:

I don't necessarily think that's a problem the code appears to support any cameras your RPi works with - it just needs different configuration options.

 

https://github.com/CroatianMeteorNetwork/RMS#capture

 

Note the most recommended camera is analog and uses a USB analog to digital dongle to interface to the RPi.

Thank you John, I'm going to have a play around with the USB camera.  I've got a few days before Amazon expect the return and about a week before Ali Express ship the replacement so hopefully I can get something sorted.

Thank you for the pointers everybody.  I hope to have something working soon-ish.

Paul

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 05/01/2021 at 07:35, Chefgage said:

Just been reading the article about this in sky at night magazine. With regards the lens which is best, the 4mm or 6mm?

4mm or 6mm is fine.  I've been in regular communications with the person running the project.  He sent me this parts list.

I wish I had that at the start.  I'm still not fully up and running.  My lens is a 2.6mm which isn't suitable.  I bought a 4mm lens but when it came it didn't fit my camera housing.  So now I'm waiting for a new camera housing from AliExpress.

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4 hours ago, Honcho41 said:

4mm or 6mm is fine.  I've been in regular communications with the person running the project.  He sent me this parts list.

I wish I had that at the start.  I'm still not fully up and running.  My lens is a 2.6mm which isn't suitable.  I bought a 4mm lens but when it came it didn't fit my camera housing.  So now I'm waiting for a new camera housing from AliExpress.

Thanks for that.

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