Atik 383L+ Colour

[paul mc c]

Hello all,would this https://starizona.com/store/manufacturers/atik/atik-383l-color-ccd-camerabe a good camera for first dedicated camera to be used with a c80ed scope,any views would be great.

 

Thanks Paul

Edited December 28, 2020 by paul mc c

[tooth_dr]

1 minute ago, paul mc c said:

Hello all,would thishttps://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00JZMEM6W/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1 be a good camera for first dedicated camera to be used with a c80ed scope,any views would be great.

 

Thanks Paul

Paul

That link goes to a serial/ USB convertor!  I believe that the colour version of the Atik is not great, and wouldnt be considered an improvement over the DSLR you have.  I have never had one, but I believe that is the general consensus.  The mono version is a different thing altogether, but then you will need a filter wheel with filters.  But this sensor size can work with 1.25" filter.

[paul mc c]

1 minute ago, tooth_dr said:

Paul

That link goes to a serial/ USB convertor!  I believe that the colour version of the Atik is not great, and wouldnt be considered an improvement over the DSLR you have.  I have never had one, but I believe that is the general consensus.  The mono version is a different thing altogether, but then you will need a filter wheel with filters.  But this sensor size can work with 1.25" filter.

I know mate,just changed it there...lol,i know mono is the way to go,but some times i am lucky to get even lights and dont know it it will frustrate me even more trying to get LRGB to get any thing.

Edited December 28, 2020 by paul mc c

[tooth_dr]

Just now, paul mc c said:

I know mate,just changed it there...lol

I was too fast!  Depending on the price of it of course, that will have a lot to do with it, but there will be a lot of better choices out there.

[paul mc c]

3 minutes ago, tooth_dr said:

I was too fast!  Depending on the price of it of course, that will have a lot to do with it, but there will be a lot of better choices out there.

It seems like a mine field......i am thinking of going from dslr,but really havn't made my mind up,or if i am even ready to go there.

[tomato]

I think CMOS cameras are the way to go now for OSC, I would think one would be available comparable to the 383 for a similar price.

[davew]

Hi Paul,

As has been said, there are better alternatives.

I have never used the Atik 8300 colour but I have used a ( non Atik ) mono 8300 on and off for 10 years. Owning one tended to attract me to what others thought and wrote and I can't remember ever seeing a serious review or comment that said anything good about the 8300 colour chip. If you read the Starizona advert it appears to be talking about the way superior mono and not the colour form many years ago.

The second thing to note is this chip is not in any way a low noise chip unless you're comparing it to a nuclear explosion  

The third, it's one of the lowest QE figures with 33% efficiency in the important red.

But don't let me put you off  !

Dave.

[paul mc c]

1 minute ago, davew said:

Hi Paul,

As has been said, there are better alternatives.

I have never used the Atik 8300 colour but I have used a ( non Atik ) mono 8300 on and off for 10 years. Owning one tended to attract me to what others thought and wrote and I can't remember ever seeing a serious review or comment that said anything good about the 8300 colour chip. If you read the Starizona advert it appears to be talking about the way superior mono and not the colour form many years ago.

The second thing to note is this chip is not in any way a low noise chip unless you're comparing it to a nuclear explosion  

The third, it's one of the lowest QE figures with 33% efficiency in the important red.

But don't let me put you off  !

Dave.

Ill take all your words for it.............thats why i love this site.

[tooth_dr]

5 minutes ago, paul mc c said:

Ill take all your words for it.............thats why i love this site.

The mono one doesnt look good on paper either by todays standards - low QE, large read noise - but you just have to look at the images from it, and it very much proves that it is still a serious contender.

(The colour unfortunately lives up to the poor figures, and shouldnt really be on your list)

[tomato]

Yes the mono 8300 is still a good sensor, I won’t be trading in mine for a while yet.

[rnobleeddy]

I own the color one and whilst I haven't used it much, I got some shots with it that I'm very happy with. Aside from sensor size, I'd say it is well ahead of an uncooled DSLR (at least for me, I use a 550D) - when it comes to noise reduction in startools, there isn't any visible noise with the 383L, whereas it's always a key step with the DSLR. 

Whether it's useful or not somewhat depends on price - if I could choose a free 550D or a free color 383, I'd take the 383 by quite a margin.

 

[paul mc c]

Turns out the one i was enquiring about has now sold....

[paul mc c]

4 hours ago, tomato said:

I think CMOS cameras are the way to go now for OSC

Sorry,by this do you mean a dslr..?

[tooth_dr]

11 minutes ago, paul mc c said:

Sorry,by this do you mean a dslr..?

Paul,

This most likely means the new breed of back illuminated CMOS sensors such as in the 533 and the 2600.  These may also be in DSLRs, but I'm not familiar with them and suspect that the dedicated cooled camera represent better value for our purposes.

[tomato]

19 minutes ago, paul mc c said:

Sorry,by this do you mean a dslr..?

No, I’m referring to the dedicated cooled Astro CMOS cameras offered by ZWO, QHY, Atik, to name but a few.

[paul mc c]

4 minutes ago, tooth_dr said:

Paul,

This most likely means the new breed of back illuminated CMOS sensors such as in the 533 and the 2600.  These may also be in DSLRs, but I'm not familiar with them and suspect that the dedicated cooled camera represent better value for our purposes.

Right, ok,this is definitely a lot more complicated than i thought as my knowledge of AP and cameras is fairly limited,maybe a lot more homework needs to be done.

[Dixie]

A bit tangential, but second hand prices for lots of CCDs as far as their owners are concerned have not quite kept up with current events. Astro Ads seems full of hugely optimistic valuations, especially for 8300 chipped cameras. 

[paul mc c]

3 minutes ago, Dixie said:

A bit tangential, but second hand prices for lots of CCDs as far as their owners are concerned have not quite kept up with current events. Astro Ads seems full of hugely optimistic valuations, especially for 8300 chipped cameras. 

Yea..they seem to be out of my budget,as it would be a used one i would be after.

[rnobleeddy]

12 hours ago, Dixie said:

A bit tangential, but second hand prices for lots of CCDs as far as their owners are concerned have not quite kept up with current events. Astro Ads seems full of hugely optimistic valuations, especially for 8300 chipped cameras. 

Yeah, I've been trying to buy stuff second hand and see this all the time. Just because a camera cost £2000 ten years ago, doesn't mean you'll get anywhere near that for it today. 

My take is that the volume sold is pretty low and so it's hard to find a consensus that way. And most astro kit hold it's value well.

There's also a pretty big gap in value between a cheap DSLR and a cooled camera. I bought a modded Canon 450D for £120 and yet there's not even a lot of choice in second hand cooled cameras until your budget is over £600.  For £600 you're not going to get anywhere close to 5x better images, and will have to put it with a smaller sensor.

[paul mc c]

10 minutes ago, rnobleeddy said:

Yeah, I've been trying to buy stuff second hand and see this all the time. Just because a camera cost £2000 ten years ago, doesn't mean you'll get anywhere near that for it today. 

My take is that the volume sold is pretty low and so it's hard to find a consensus that way. And most astro kit hold it's value well.

There's also a pretty big gap in value between a cheap DSLR and a cooled camera. I bought a modded Canon 450D for £120 and yet there's not even a lot of choice in second hand cooled cameras until your budget is over £600.  For £600 you're not going to get anywhere close to 5x better images, and will have to put it with a smaller sensor.

My budget would be around £ 500-600,which for me is a lot of money as i no longer work after an accident,which got me thinking should i just upgrade my 450d to a higher spec dslr,or just keep going with what i have and put the money towards something else.........

[rnobleeddy]

14 minutes ago, paul mc c said:

My budget would be around £ 500-600,which for me is a lot of money as i no longer work after an accident,which got me thinking should i just upgrade my 450d to a higher spec dslr,or just keep going with what i have and put the money towards something else.........

I haven't seen any detailed comparison, but a few people have suggested that moving up to the Canon 18MP sensor produces better results. I personally found this to be true -  the 550D I use produces noticeably cleaner images than the 450D. However, this tended to only be an issue after processing if I was short of data. When I could get 30+ 5 minute subs with large dithers between each one, the noise in the final image tended not to be an serious issue in either case.

But YMMV and newer DSLRs may be much better. Certainly I never really worked out if (for example) all 18MP Canon sensors are the same for astro work, or if more expensive cameras are somehow less noisy. I'm also not sure if I'm getting typical results - posts above suggest the color 383 shouldn't be any better than a DSLR, whereas I found that the data was much cleaner.

Edit - on the other hand, my 550D cost £20 more than the 450D, so probably worth the cost!

Edited December 29, 2020 by rnobleeddy