Observatory

[smr]

Hi,

Just decided today that I'm interested in buying an observatory due to set up and tear down time as well as the ability to start imaging quickly. Overall I think it would be a worthwhile investment.

So I've been looking around at some observatories and the Pulsar seems to be well liked. I'm just wondering if they are any things to be aware of before going ahead and having a base built and buying the dome. 

I've not long had a base built for my new Shed at the bottom of the garden though a base for the observatory wouldn't have to be the same type of build. I'd be thinking of having a circular concrete base slightly larger in diameter than that of the observatory which would be the 2.2m dome rather than a rectangular or square base.

Appreciate any advice as I'm very new to the idea.

[AKB]

Do consider a roll-off roof rather than a dome.  Your signature mentions cameras, and if you’re planning long exposures, then this would require a drive for the dome.  Also, your existing base may be more suited to a roll-off.  It may also be the case that condensation is less of an issue in a timber shed than a fibreglass dome...

...so many things to think about.  Don’t rush it.

Tony

[Nigella Bryant]

It's swings and roundabouts, I'm greedy and have both a pulsar dome and a roll of roof. I like them both, but different. The roll of roof shed is open to the whole of the sky so you don't need to keep outside. I'm in the warmroom which is nice. Downside is wind if it's slightly windy on the scope's. The dome has a small shutter opening so I have to be in there and move it manually every so often as it's not motorized. Something I'm going to do next year. It is a pain to have to rotate the dome by hand every now and again. I like the dome because you're away from the wind and no light trespass enters the dome from neighbours lights or street lights which is a problem with a roll off roof open to all the elements.

[malc-c]

There are plenty of DIY observatory builds, from simple shed conversions, domes, through to custom designed and purpose built buildings.  Spend a few days / weeks browsing through them to see what was involved, the pitfalls and the pros and cons.  No one design fits all.  Also compare costs.  Sometimes a custom self build might give you more observatory than an off the shelf option.  I would suggest visiting one of the manufacturer / resellers, but with Covid and recent restrictions that would rule out such activities, especially if you are in the new T4 zone !

Also consider how you might end up operating the observatory.  Initially I built a "warm" room which worked fine, but now, having opened up the observatory, just remote desktop into the PC in the observatory from the main PC in the lounge and do all my imaging from the warmth of the living room.  A webcam allows me to keep an eye on the scopes orientation.  I would not be able to do this with a dome unless the dome was motorised as I would be running up the garden frequently to move the dome to maintain that open section of sky.

If you have neighbors close to your house then try and predict a "what if" future proofing into the location of the observatory and its design.  When I built my observatory we had an elderly couple living next door who seldom went out after dark, and would retire to bed before 10pm.  They moved out to a care home and the council have the house to a new couple.... the garden is full of fairy lights and there is a 300w flood light that often gets triggered by their cats which can naturally spoil imaging.  If I have the dropdown side of the observatory in the up position  it gives me some degree of shielding, but limits the southerly view. 

[inFINNity Deck]

13 hours ago, AKB said:

Do consider a roll-off roof rather than a dome.  Your signature mentions cameras, and if you’re planning long exposures, then this would require a drive for the dome.  Also, your existing base may be more suited to a roll-off.  It may also be the case that condensation is less of an issue in a timber shed than a fibreglass dome...

...so many things to think about.  Don’t rush it.

Tony

I built my own observatory and that has a wooden dome, which was not overly complicated to construct (I found creating the spiral staircase for it a bigger challenge). A friend of mine delivered a steering column of a Citroen Berlingo that now is an integral part of the drive-train of the dome and together with another friend I made the electronics needed for the LesveDomeNet implementation. The dome now runs flawless under SGP (although the dome-drive-routine of SGP could do with some improvements).

Thanks to its wooden construction and being about 7 metres above ground level, I have no issues whatsoever with dew. 🙂

Nicolàs

[smr]

Thanks for the replies. 

Yes my interest is in astrophotography and imaging so I would need an automated dome, I basically want something to house all my equipment in ready to image within a few minutes with everything set up, and sit in the warmth of my house whilst imaging.

At the moment I have my mount in my house and I just take it outside, place on the patio and do the polar alignment, plate solving, and then remote control from laptop in lounge to laptop outside, it probably takes me around half an hour to forty minutes getting everything set up.

I don't want to have a dome where I'd need to go out and move the dome to adjust to the sky so that would have to be automated - what's the cost involved in doing this?

It's also worth mentioning that I am completely useless when it comes to DIY and don't know anyone that would be able to help with diy stuff so it would have to be something which is ready off the shelf so to speak.

Edited December 20, 2020 by smr

[malc-c]

20 minutes ago, smr said:

Thanks for the replies. 

Yes my interest is in astrophotography and imaging so I would need an automated dome, I basically want something to house all my equipment in ready to image within a few minutes with everything set up, and sit in the warmth of my house whilst imaging.

At the moment I have my mount in my house and I just take it outside, place on the patio and do the polar alignment, plate solving, and then remote control from laptop in lounge to laptop outside, it probably takes me around half an hour to forty minutes getting everything set up.

I don't want to have a dome where I'd need to go out and move the dome to adjust to the sky so that would have to be automated - what's the cost involved in doing this?

It's also worth mentioning that I am completely useless when it comes to DIY and don't know anyone that would be able to help with diy stuff so it would have to be something which is ready off the shelf so to speak.

I hope you have deep pockets then.....

Pulsar are recognised as being the company to turn to for domed home observatories.   There are two variants, 2.2m and 2.7m.  A 2.2m full height dome (ie the the dome and the circular walled section) is £3495.   The motorised drive for the dome is an additional £1295, and if you want to automate that fully and include the shutter drive, add on another £1295, so a shade over £6000.  Add to that the cost of the base, and pier and I doubt you would see much change from £7K if you include the cost of having electricity supplied (last thing you want is the laptop to shut down due to low battery !).  If you wanted a larger 2.7m model, add another £1300 to the cost.

https://www.pulsarastro.com/pulsar-22m-full-height-dome-13-p.asp

For an off the shelf and installed ROR observatory you're looking for around £4100 for an 8' x 8'  (approx 2.4m x 2.4m) which includes  2 days labour for installation but exclude delivery.  The cost of a suitable concrete base should also be added to the cost, along with the provisions for the electrics.  So again, probably not much change out of £5.5 - £6K if you include the optional electric roof, internal wall cladding, flooring and any coloured roof tiles.

https://www.homeobservatoryuk.com/?p=home

Just want to add, that I'm in no way endorsing any of the above, and can not vouch for their suitability.   Just started the task of researching your options  for you

 

 

 

[inFINNity Deck]

1 hour ago, smr said:

I don't want to have a dome where I'd need to go out and move the dome to adjust to the sky so that would have to be automated - what's the cost involved in doing this?

If you exclude the construction costs of the dome and observatory itself, the DIY-automation would cost about:

- Silent electro-motor: €250,-
- Velleman-kit (not pre-assembled): €40,-
- H-bridge (of reliable components): €400,-
- Switches and other electronic parts: €100,-
- Drive chain and sprocket: €100,-

So for roughly €1000,- you should be able to do the automation yourself. Which parts I used can be found on my website. Most of it goes into the H-bridge. It can be built for a fraction of that, but with risk of overheating and thus fire (see this video). Of course the dome and observatory needs to be constructed, the cost of which much depends on its size, construction method and materials (and whether or not those are readily available).

Nicolàs

PS: I just noted your remark that "It's also worth mentioning that I am completely useless when it comes to DIY and don't know anyone that would be able to help with diy stuff so it would have to be something which is ready off the shelf so to speak. " In that case it is better to forget about this... 😉

Edited December 20, 2020 by inFINNity Deck

[Bukko]

5 hours ago, smr said:

Thanks for the replies. 

Yes my interest is in astrophotography and imaging so I would need an automated dome, I basically want something to house all my equipment in ready to image within a few minutes with everything set up, and sit in the warmth of my house whilst imaging.

At the moment I have my mount in my house and I just take it outside, place on the patio and do the polar alignment, plate solving, and then remote control from laptop in lounge to laptop outside, it probably takes me around half an hour to forty minutes getting everything set up.

I don't want to have a dome where I'd need to go out and move the dome to adjust to the sky so that would have to be automated - what's the cost involved in doing this?

It's also worth mentioning that I am completely useless when it comes to DIY and don't know anyone that would be able to help with diy stuff so it would have to be something which is ready off the shelf so to speak.

As you are finding out, there is no single answer, with both ROR and domes having as many positives as negatives. One common positive is significant reductions in setting up times.

I also note your comment about DIY. Both options will need home assembly but of course you can outsource this for a price. A dome will need an accurate base, probably more so than a ROR. Don't assume it will fit together perfectly out of the box.

Circular or rectangular base will not really matter for the dome, I cast circular pads and it was a lot harder to get both circular, flat and especially level. I have fitted a dehumidifier to each dome and run them 24/7 to prevent the formation of dew.

Where do you expect to go with your telescope? a 2.2m dome is probably limited to nothing bigger than a 12". A 12" Newt will fill the dome leaving little room to get around. I have a 12" f4 newt in a 3m dome and it often gets in the way while working around it... This would be where the ROR scores, but if you intend to always work this remotely, then its not such an impediment.

Hope this helps.

Gordon.

[malc-c]

Gordon's post really just about sums things up.  The prices I quoted above for the ROR does include installation and erection so you wouldn't have to worry about having to assemble a flat pack kit, as would be the case with the dome.  Again, you could contract a builder to lay the base, install ducting and pre-fit the electrics prior to delivery, and then come back and erect it for you, but this could be upwards of three days labour, costing £500 or more.

I built my own ROR - OK whilst I had help from a neighbour who had access to a mini digger for the foundations, the rest was done over the course of a few months.  The bulk of construction was a week of long days tagged onto a bank holiday.  It wasn't hard... just cutting stud work to length and then screwing it together to make a frame.  It's 2m wide x 4.8m long and has an office / warme room / workshop at one end. - The total cost, £2200, of which £1850 was actual materials, the difference being tool hire costs and payment to my son who bagged up all the spoil for me. - I think if you read through all DIY builds that follow similar build mythology this cost is about average.  So you can see a huge saving can be made by going down the DIY route.  Of course if you really have money to throw at this, you could contract a builder to design and build an observatory to your requirements.  Probably the most expensive option, but other than consultation you would have very little to do other than power up and start using it once completed

 

[Rusted]

Location, location, location!  You are sheltered but fixed to the spot. Houses or trees spoiling your view? Oh, deary me!

Potential eyesore for neighbours?  This has seriously undone some observatories. They say Sage green is nice.
White domes demand the neighbours wear welder's goggles 24x365. [Allegedly.]
The very same neighbours who constantly blast you with kilowatts of their "insecurity" lights.

Incoming light trespass? A dome provides more shelter. Constant breeze? A dome provides more shelter.
Frosts: As above. Rain: No problem. Instant gratification. Check!

Enough space for expansion? Including yourself if you don't have a black belt in limbo?

A big enough budget to have your every desire? You can certainly have it all but other people usually expect to be paid.
Pulsar offer delivery and erection at a price. Dome drives at a price. A turnkey solution at a price. Only you can decide if it is all worthwhile.
It may be your only option. Unless you choose a ready-made roll off roof and hired labour. [Not keen on so much sky exposure.]

A lack of DIY skills is not a judgment. Just a statement of fact. People always forget that their unpaid, one-man-band [slave] can be moody and fragile.
They need very expensive new tools they never knew they'd need. Nor budgeted for. Table saws, mitre saws, laser levels, routers, bits and drills.
Can you afford time off for a bad back? Will missing fingers set back your sell-out, global concert tour?

Materials cost another fortune. The glue, sealant, nuts, bolts and brackets even more!
Save several fortunes!  Forget DIY unless you are a tradesman. With an existing account at several builder's merchants.

I speak as a non-tradesman who built a raised 3m or 10' dome on a self-built, two storey building.
A year on and I am already designing a bigger building and dome.

Repeat after me:
Observatories are never, ever big enough!
Observatories are never, ever big enough!
Observatories are never, ever big enough!

 

[malc-c]

One thing that is always mentioned is security.  Having a 2.2m dome in your garden makes people curious, and most people, even the lowlife opportunistic youth recognises the shape and makes a connection with telescopes....  When I was building my observatory all the people walking past on their way to the allotments behind us who asked what I was building were told "a shed to store the garden tools".  Only the neighbours who have seen it in operation know exactly what its function is.

 

[inFINNity Deck]

30 minutes ago, Rusted said:

Repeat after me:

Observatories are never, ever big enough!
Observatories are never, ever big enough!
Observatories are never, ever big enough!

 

Well said (should I repeat that threefold? 😉)! It is all too true. When I was creating drawings for mine, I searched the internet and the general advise was to go for at least 3 metres (10') diameter, so mine became that size (it also was the maximum the structure of our house could accommodate. A nearby public observatory has a 3.4 metres dome. The difference sounds small, but in fact is huge! When I first installed my 1490mm f/25 Galilean Type Telescope I found out it did not fit when mounted piggy-back, so I had to device dedicated mounting rings to squeeze it in between the two other scopes. With 3 metres (the drive ring on the inside is even less with only 2.8m) it is still possible to accommodate 4 adults or 1 adult and 4 to 5 children. Anything smaller will make it difficult to accommodate two...

So if you can scale up, you certainly should! 🙂

Nicolàs

[Nigella Bryant]

You could go second hand, nothing wrong with a second hand dome. I know you'd have to wait but the cost is half the price usually of a new one. I came across a second hand dome that pulsar was selling for a fraction of the price and revamped it when I moved last year and relocated to darker skies. I know someone else on here managed to get a second hand dome from pulsar. I expect they take them in part exchange or demo models. 

[oldannie]

I've had a small Pulsar observatory for about five years now and whilst I can't compare it with any other design it has worked admirably for my needs. My husband did the base and I bought a Rigel Pier on which to mount my gear.  The company who delivered it assembled it on site.  It's not automated and I don't image remotely.  I haven't yet minded going to the obsey to move the dome from time to time but I guess the time will come......  If we had more clear nights that time would come more quickly I guess.  It's kept my equipment weatherproof though I do run a dehumidifier which I thought long and hard about but now wouldn't like to be without it .  I bought the pulsar with one storage bay - I may have preferred two in retrospect.  All in all it's been worth its weight in gold.  Hope your choice works out well.

 

Pam

[Rusted]

Good points from all posters.

A round building has less room than any other shape.
So a storage bay [or three] offers space which you'd otherwise lose to supporting furniture.
Though you can hang a monitor or laptop shelf on a really solid pier.
You can't type during an exposure though. Even pressing capture can trigger the wobbles.

I saw a GRP dome listed on a national online small ads website. It didn't sell!
Within easy reach with a car transporter trailer hired from the local garage.
A bargain for a 2.7m [dome and base ring] at £700. Up and over shutter on rails.
The trouble is it's in Denmark. Postage to the UK might be a bit steep. 😱

I was very tempted, but went another route. Because I need more room, not less.

 

[Rusted]

On 20/12/2020 at 11:06, inFINNity Deck said:

I built my own observatory and that has a wooden dome, which was not overly complicated to construct (I found creating the spiral staircase for it a bigger challenge). A friend of mine delivered a steering column of a Citroen Berlingo that now is an integral part of the drive-train of the dome and together with another friend I made the electronics needed for the LesveDomeNet implementation. The dome now runs flawless under SGP (although the dome-drive-routine of SGP could do with some improvements).

Thanks to its wooden construction and being about 7 metres above ground level, I have no issues whatsoever with dew. 🙂

Nicolàs

Hi Nicolàs,

Your dome and building are a truly remarkable project!
My 3m, self-build, plywood dome is raised but I still suffer from dew.
Perhaps it needs to be taller?

 

[Nigella Bryant]

This is my relocation and refurb of my second hand pulsar dome. It was damaged by thieves trying to get in when I'd moved and had to leave dismantling the dome until another date cus of lockdown one. All sorted now in my new location. Cost about £700 for materials to do electrics, usb, ethernet cables underground and base.

Edited December 24, 2020 by Nigella Bryant
Added comment

[inFINNity Deck]

1 hour ago, Rusted said:

Hi Nicolàs,

Your dome and building are a truly remarkable project!
My 3m, self-build, plywood dome is raised but I still suffer from dew.
Perhaps it needs to be taller?

 

Hi Rusted,

Thanks! Yours is nice as well. Making it tall gets you closer to the stars and therefore reduces seeing....🤪

For those who want to see more of my obsy, please visit my website: http://www.dehilster.info/astronomy/building-an-observatory.php

You also wrote that "A round building has less room than any other shape.", but as long as we make it tall like you and I did, there is plenty room below it. 🙂

Nicolàs

 

[Rusted]

1 hour ago, inFINNity Deck said:

Hi Rusted,

Thanks! Yours is nice as well. Making it tall gets you closer to the stars and therefore reduces seeing....🤪

For those who want to see more of my obsy, please visit my website: http://www.dehilster.info/astronomy/building-an-observatory.php

You also wrote that "A round building has less room than any other shape.", but as long as we make it tall like you and I did, there is plenty room below it. 🙂

Nicolàs

 

Thanks. Indeed there is a lot of space down below. A handy place for timber to be stored for the next project.
Your choice of spiral staircase has me intrigued. I use a big aluminium, warehouse ladder with flat steps and handrails.
This means a large access hole in the floor of the observatory. I fitted counterweights to the trapdoor but it is still a constant danger.
An external ladder would be subject to ice and snow, weather conditions and would certainly reduce security.
However, we are getting away from the subject matter of this thread. Raised observatories are not at all commonplace.
However desirable they may be for many different reasons. Only some of which are mentioned here.