Street Lighting Petition

[Tiny Clanger]

36 minutes ago, lukebl said:

The main problem is that the VAST, I mean VAST, majority of people either don't care about excessive night-time lighting, or worse, they actually prefer it.

I hate to be cynical, but it is a battle we won't win.

 

13 minutes ago, Scooot said:

I tend to agree. It should be a separate amount on Council Tax bills, at least everyone would know how much is being wasted.

 

I must be a s cynical as lukebl 😀  Most people don't care for the reasons folk on here do.

However I suspect that the best chance of some sort of action is down to cost (excellent idea to make every C.T payer aware of the cost Scoot ! ) or to the rising awareness of the way all kinds of waste and pollution impacting the natural world as a whole. Oceanic plastic pollution, 'dirty' energy, habitat loss, climate change, light pollution , etc etc,  all parts of the rising eco consciousness , we need Saint D. Attenborough to make a popular TV series, 'Life in the Dark' maybe !

[Scooot]

4 minutes ago, Tiny Clanger said:

 

 

I must be a s cynical as lukebl 😀  Most people don't care for the reasons folk on here do.

However I suspect that the best chance of some sort of action is down to cost (excellent idea to make every C.T payer aware of the cost Scoot ! ) or to the rising awareness of the way all kinds of waste and pollution impacting the natural world as a whole. Oceanic plastic pollution, 'dirty' energy, habitat loss, climate change, light pollution , etc etc,  all parts of the rising eco consciousness , we need Saint D. Attenborough to make a popular TV series, 'Life in the Dark' maybe !

It should be under the heading:

Street Lighting Pollution - £thousands 😂

I agree other pollution could be listed as well, although too much detail would lose its impact. 

[johninderby]

I think it would be more effective to make the general public more aware of the damage excessive night time lighting is doing to our ecosystem and how it harms birds, insects and animals. 

[Tiny Clanger]

3 minutes ago, Scooot said:

It should be under the heading:

Street Lighting Pollution - £thousands 😂

I agree other pollution could be listed as well, although too much detail would lose its impact. 

Sorry, I wasn't clear there : should have made a new paragraph.

I wasn't intending to suggest the cost of all ecologically sensitive issues be placed on CT bills (it's my age I know, it will always be called the poll tax to me ...) ,  but that any improvement in dark skies was going to come because it will be a part the general upsurge in concern for things eco.

Two years ago my local council sent every home an extensive questionnaire in the quarterly newsletter  (if I recall correctly the questionnaire ran to 6 sides A4 ish paper) . They made clear the shortfall between C. tax income, gov.t input and their expenditure in the coming year to keep all the services running as in previous years.They asked residents how we would want to prioritize spending, and what cuts could be made : libraries, parks, the refuse/recycling sites , verge grass cutting, street lighting, road improvements, litter bins, public toilets, elderly support services. dog wardens, household refuse and recycling collections, children's services, swimming pools, youth clubs, environmental health services, Christmas lights .... the list went on and on.

Going through it and rating each service in tick boxes which gave the projected savings was a salutary lesson in the difficult decisions the council make, which I guess was as much the point of the exercise as canvassing for opinions was. We now have every other street light turn off in the early hours, which s a start ...

[Mognet]

10 hours ago, Scooot said:

Despite the Police Report showing no evidence of increased crime and saving in excess of £300k per year, Essex Council abandoned their Part-Night lighting. When I complained Basildon Council told me they’d “campaigned on the issue of getting the lights back on to address the real concerns of residents who live here.”

 

I can see the sky glow along the Basildon to Southend corridor as a result of that. Fortunately my town comes under Chelmsford so we do get some darkness here

[Second Time Around]

Lighting makes us feel safer, but the reality is that we're actually less safe.

From Wikipedia: "Security lighting can be counter-productive. Turning off lights halved the number of thefts and burglary in Övertorneå Sweden.  A test in West Sussex UK showed that adding all-night lighting in some areas made people there feel safer, although crime rates increased 55% in those areas compared to control areas and to the county as a whole."

Don't forget that burglars also need to see.  If it's dark they need to use a torch and that draws attention to them - which is the last thing they want to do.  Bear in mind that the majority of burglaries happen in broad daylight!

Security companies delight in making us feel vulnerable so that we buy their products.  I wonder if they have a vested interest?

Unfortunately, because the public as a whole now feels insecure there's pressure on politicians to back increased lighting.  After all, most politicians aren't concerned with facts; what matters to them are votes.

So firstly public opinion has to change.  Eventually I suspect it will as peer pressure on climate change becomes more and more effective.  Sadly, it's unlikely to happen soon enough for my generation.

[Carbon Brush]

Well I really seem to have started a very active discussion - I do hope most or all of you have signed the petition. Even a failed petition shows interest in the subject to make politicians sit up.

Here is my ty two pennorth of the burglary/safety associated with lights, or absence of.

A few years ago the biggest light pollution generator in my area (Nottinghamshire County Council) commissioned a study on street lighting. The outcome being their were lots of good arguments in favour of a midnight switch off on minor roads, back residential streets in villages, etc. The scheme started to be rolled out, with parish councils, etc being consulted - and listened to. I was encouraged.

During the rollout, a young driver I know was travelling about 20 miles from work at night. She travelled mostly on already unlit country roads, encountering street lighting only when in her own (small) town.
Panic panic. My area is in darkness now! No I don't understand it either.

A year or two on, the county hall front door changed colour. An election. I won't say who left and who moved in. You can easily find out if you are interested. The new lot tore up the report and undid all of the switch off schemes.
They did not even leave the (locally approved) dark schemes in place.

Hard work isn't it.

David.

[tonylumley]

Signed, 

[Kimboman]

Hi all  it would be great if we could have a night time  free period from street lights, but where I live the problem I security lights.

It dose not matter which door I exit security lights  come on in neighbouring properties as soon as a vehicle goes past on they come again.

All my neighbours know that I am out most clear nights and are keen to have a look through the telescopes but the lights are always on.

We have Christmas type lights solar powered on every night through out the year so I agree that we are on a losing battle but we perseveer

[laser_jock99]

On 15/12/2020 at 10:47, Stuart1971 said:

We live in a small rural village, and many houses are in complete darkness when the lights go off, and out crime rate was zero, before they did this, now it has risen dramatically and some of the offenders were caught a while back as we now have a good Neighborhood watch scheme in place, and also a good relationship with our local police who have been very good... they told us that the issue was the lack of lighting and this has come from them questioning the offenders...saying that it made things easier...

Modern CCTV cameras that many people have on there property, as I do, work very well with night vision, but it’s not good enough to pick out facial features and so on, so street light helps with this it make images much clearer having the extra light on the drive and in the street in general... also cars can be parked on streets without being noticed when in pitch black, whereas when lit up people see them and if not recognised or look dodgy, they can be reported, which is what has happened here, it’s nearly always small white vans...

So I disagree, sorry.... 👍😀

In Warwickshire the night time crime went down 30-40% with the switch off......

 

[JamesF]

20 minutes ago, laser_jock99 said:

In Warwickshire the night time crime went down 30-40% with the switch off......

That'll be all the astronomers getting out with their telescopes instead.  I hear they're a right dodgy bunch if they don't get their fix of clear sky.

James

[Stuart1971]

1 hour ago, laser_jock99 said:

In Warwickshire the night time crime went down 30-40% with the switch off......

 

Hmmmm, I live in leicestershire.... 👍🏼

[Andy ES]

Update 335 signatures today just 9665 to go 😬

[ScouseSpaceCadet]

1 hour ago, Andy ES said:

Update 335 signatures today just 9665 to go 😬

336 - Liverpool City Council are pants.

[Stuart1971]

I personally think Elon Musk is a much bigger threat to this hobby, than street lights....but I guess nothing we can do about that.... ☹️

[AstroExploring]

I’m planning on making a light pollution video on my YouTube channel in the next couple of weeks. I can point people to the petition in that. I’m not sure what effect it’ll have as I have just under 5k subscribers, but it’s a start! 
 

As pointed out above, the vast majority of people don’t particularly care about the night sky so I plan to look at it from a health, environmental perspective and just general awareness. Not sure how it’ll land but it’s a topic I’m passionate about!