Street Lighting Petition

[Carbon Brush]

I found this earlier this evening on another astro site.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/562394

I could not find it on here, so thought to bring it to SGLers attention.

Apologies if it is a duplicate post.

It seems to have attracted very little attention so far. But I have signed.

[Stuart1971]

All our street lights are turned off at midnight in our village, which is great for my Astro, but it’s not helping with the rural crime rate, where I live.... that’s going up 🤔🤔

[Scooot]

10 hours ago, Stuart1971 said:

All our street lights are turned off at midnight in our village, which is great for my Astro, but it’s not helping with the rural crime rate, where I live.... that’s going up 🤔🤔

How do you know it’s going up because of part-night lighting? I ask because the police commissioned a study in Essex about this and found that it had no adverse affect. There is often a presumption voiced on social media that street lighting helps fight crime, whereas in reality it probably helps criminals to see without the aid of a torch.

Anyway, here’s a link about the report.

https://www.essex.pfcc.police.uk/news/report-finds-no-evidence-part-night-lighting-impact-crime-levels/

 

[Stuart1971]

10 minutes ago, Scooot said:

How do you know it’s going up because of part-night lighting? I ask because the police commissioned a study in Essex about this and found that it had no adverse affect. There is often a presumption voiced on social media that street lighting helps fight crime, whereas in reality it probably helps criminals to see without the aid of a torch.

Anyway, here’s a link about the report.

https://www.essex.pfcc.police.uk/news/report-finds-no-evidence-part-night-lighting-impact-crime-levels/

 

We live in a small rural village, and many houses are in complete darkness when the lights go off, and out crime rate was zero, before they did this, now it has risen dramatically and some of the offenders were caught a while back as we now have a good Neighborhood watch scheme in place, and also a good relationship with our local police who have been very good... they told us that the issue was the lack of lighting and this has come from them questioning the offenders...saying that it made things easier...

Modern CCTV cameras that many people have on there property, as I do, work very well with night vision, but it’s not good enough to pick out facial features and so on, so street light helps with this it make images much clearer having the extra light on the drive and in the street in general... also cars can be parked on streets without being noticed when in pitch black, whereas when lit up people see them and if not recognised or look dodgy, they can be reported, which is what has happened here, it’s nearly always small white vans...

So I disagree, sorry.... 👍😀

[Carbon Brush]

Wandering off topic a little. Sorry Stuart but I tend to agree with Scooot.

Constant lighting means people can move around without being noticed that much.
Just look at people walking around well lit urban streets at night. When driving you hardly notice their non reflective (dare I say camouflage?) clothing.
These can be old sodium or LED lights, or anything in between.

Then anything less than multiple floodlights always leaves deep shadows for the villains to hide.

But if a security light detects movement and turns on it is an instant attention grabber. It does not have to be bright. It is the CHANGE in light level that grabs the attention.

At work we have outside security cameras with night vision and motion detect recording.
These are no deterrent, but will at least record the intruders while they do their bit for the underground economy.

However, the motion triggered security lights really do grab attention and (in my opinion) discourage those who might come onto the premises 'for a wander'.
A farmer next door to work insists on leaving bright lights running overnight. They are visible from 2 miles and more. He frequently gets thefts and break ins.
We use triggered lights. There are occasionally 'light up' events on the video that cause us to review footage the next day. But zero attempted, or actual, break ins at our premises.

Back to topic. Too-bright street lighting is disturbing (non astro) peoples sleep and they sometimes don't know how to get it put right.
The excess lighting is ruining things for wildlife.
Despite the low power consumption of LED lighting, it still uses electricity. Less power per lamp simply results in more and brighter LEDs being installed.
The LEDs as well as the fixtures and fittings have finite life. They therefore consume electricity, mineral/manufactured resources and money.

Please sign the petition. It is a small step towards recovering the night for everyone - human and animal.

David.
 

[Stuart1971]

8 minutes ago, Carbon Brush said:

Wandering off topic a little. Sorry Stuart but I tend to agree with Scooot.

Constant lighting means people can move around without being noticed that much.
Just look at people walking around well lit urban streets at night. When driving you hardly notice their non reflective (dare I say camouflage?) clothing.
These can be old sodium or LED lights, or anything in between.

Then anything less than multiple floodlights always leaves deep shadows for the villains to hide.

But if a security light detects movement and turns on it is an instant attention grabber. It does not have to be bright. It is the CHANGE in light level that grabs the attention.

At work we have outside security cameras with night vision and motion detect recording.
These are no deterrent, but will at least record the intruders while they do their bit for the underground economy.

However, the motion triggered security lights really do grab attention and (in my opinion) discourage those who might come onto the premises 'for a wander'.
A farmer next door to work insists on leaving bright lights running overnight. They are visible from 2 miles and more. He frequently gets thefts and break ins.
We use triggered lights. There are occasionally 'light up' events on the video that cause us to review footage the next day. But zero attempted, or actual, break ins at our premises.

Back to topic. Too-bright street lighting is disturbing (non astro) peoples sleep and they sometimes don't know how to get it put right.
The excess lighting is ruining things for wildlife.
Despite the low power consumption of LED lighting, it still uses electricity. Less power per lamp simply results in more and brighter LEDs being installed.
The LEDs as well as the fixtures and fittings have finite life. They therefore consume electricity, mineral/manufactured resources and money.

Please sign the petition. It is a small step towards recovering the night for everyone - human and animal.

David.
 

Sorry, but you missed my point completely....but never mind...you are correct it’s off topic....but at the end of the day people can be seen with lights on, people can’t be seen with lights off, you say Vilans hide in shadows, so surely no lights it’s even better for them.....🤔🤔 which is what I was saying.....it’s that simple...and easy to understand......👍😀

Edited December 15, 2020 by Stuart1971

[DaveS]

I have signed the petition.

No streetlights here in semi-rural Dorset and next to no crime either. What there is largely targets farmers.

 

[Ags]

Here in Amsterdam the the night sky is white with light pollution and we have plenty of burglaries. If you can believe our local police, we even have gangs flying in from Peru doing break-ins. Well, before covid anyways.

Edited December 15, 2020 by Ags

[richard ashbee]

So is your lighting all LED's

[Scooot]

3 hours ago, Stuart1971 said:

We live in a small rural village, and many houses are in complete darkness when the lights go off, and out crime rate was zero, before they did this, now it has risen dramatically and some of the offenders were caught a while back as we now have a good Neighborhood watch scheme in place, and also a good relationship with our local police who have been very good... they told us that the issue was the lack of lighting and this has come from them questioning the offenders...saying that it made things easier...

Modern CCTV cameras that many people have on there property, as I do, work very well with night vision, but it’s not good enough to pick out facial features and so on, so street light helps with this it make images much clearer having the extra light on the drive and in the street in general... also cars can be parked on streets without being noticed when in pitch black, whereas when lit up people see them and if not recognised or look dodgy, they can be reported, which is what has happened here, it’s nearly always small white vans...

So I disagree, sorry.... 👍😀

No probs, everyone is entitled to their view. The only think I’ll add is that no street lighting (in my opinion) doesn’t make someone become a burglar or criminal. So if there were none anywhere it wouldn’t make any difference to crime. It would however save thousands of pounds, save natural resources, aid wild life, reduce human illnesses, aid sleep and of course reveal more of the night sky for everyone to enjoy.  

Edited December 15, 2020 by Scooot

[Stuart1971]

8 minutes ago, Scooot said:

No probs, everyone is entitled to their view. The only think I’ll add is that no street lighting (in my opinion) doesn’t make someone become a burglar or criminal. So if there were none anywhere it wouldn’t make any difference to crime. It would however save thousands of pounds, save natural resources, aid wild life, reduce human illnesses, aid sleep and of course reveal more of the night sky for everyone to enjoy.  

I never said no lighting makes criminals, that is just stupid, ....but it helps mask crimes, from people who are already criminals and are looking for an easy target, and in our village there are many when it’s pitch black around the streets...

anyway just leave it now, as it seems that no one is allowed an opinion anymore on this forum, as anybody that disagrees with anything, gets shot down....I see why people are leaving....it’s a real shame.... 👍😀

[wulfrun]

The petition is to make councils add shades without needing to be asked, not to have no street lights. In fairness, if they'd use sensibly designed fittings in the first place, rather than what's most likely the cheapest, shades shouldn't be needed. The other thing they seem to do is to replace existing sodium lights with LEDs and retain the same number, rather than a complete remove-and-reinstall.

Regarding light or no light, if there's no light at all criminals are forced to use a torch/phone-light, which makes them stand out. If there is bright lighting, residents might see their activity. In both cases, there is a requirement for someone (or a camera) actually to be looking though, not always the case - and activity to be reported. Movement-activated lights are surely more noticeable, provided they aren't too frequently false-triggered and so go ignored. Still subject to someone noticing, of course.

[Scooot]

4 minutes ago, Stuart1971 said:

I never said no lighting makes criminals, that is just stupid, ....but it helps mask crimes, from people who are already criminals and are looking for an easy target, and in our village there are many when it’s pitch black around the streets...

anyway just leave it now, as it seems that no one is allowed an opinion anymore on this forum, as anybody that disagrees with anything, gets shot down....I see why people are leaving....it’s a real shame.... 👍😀

Well I apologise, I know you didn’t say that you missed my point, which is that if there were no street lighting anywhere it wouldn’t make a difference to crime.  

[Stuart1971]

Just now, Scooot said:

Well I apologise, I know you didn’t say that you missed my point, which is that if there were no street lighting anywhere it wouldn’t make a difference to crime.  

Absolute Rubbish, that’s just your opinion....not at all fact....👍😀

[Scooot]

3 minutes ago, Stuart1971 said:

Absolute Rubbish, that’s just your opinion....not at all fact....👍😀

True, it is my opinion, and it would be absolute rubbish if people took up crime because there is no street lighting.

[Davey-T]

If you have no security lighting to light the burglars way and they trip on a loose paving stone they may sue you for insufficient illumination 😂

Dave

[Stuart1971]

5 minutes ago, Scooot said:

True, it is my opinion, and it would be absolute rubbish if people took up crime because there is no street lighting.

You really are trying to wind me up, please read what I am saying and understand, I am not saying people take up crime, and become criminals all of a sudden,  because of no lights, I am saying these people are ALREADY criminals and Looking  for an easy target....of which there are plenty in an unlit housing rural area.... is that simple enough for you to get...??

 

Edited December 15, 2020 by Stuart1971

[Ags]

What we don't understand is that the petition is about properly shaded street lights, not "no streetlights"? Are you opposed to properly shaded (no glare) streetlights too?

Edited December 15, 2020 by Ags

[johninderby]

People are so used to security lights being turned on by cats or other animals that they totaly ignore them when they come on. Bit like burgler alarms being ignored as false alarms are so common.

[Scooot]

12 minutes ago, Stuart1971 said:

You really are trying to wind me up, please read what I am saying and understand, I am not saying people take up crime, and become criminals all of a sudden,  because of no lights, I am saying these people are ALREADY criminals and Looking  for an easy target....of which there are plenty in an unlit housing rural area.... is that simple enough for you to get...??

 

I’m not trying to wind you up, we are going round in circles. I’ll try to explain my opinion in a different way? 

If there are no more street lights anywhere, would these “already criminals” commit any more crimes than they do now? There wouldn’t be any easy targets because everywhere’s  the same. So would it make them be busier burglars? 

Edited December 15, 2020 by Scooot

[johninderby]

Worth reading this report on street lighting.

https://www.rospa.com/rospaweb/docs/advice-services/road-safety/roads/street-lighting.pdf

[Phillyo]

Signed. Shades should always be included, it makes no sense not to really.

[wulfrun]

In this day and age, it's not beyond technology to provide adequate lighting when and where it's needed - i.e. on roads and adjacent footways. Depending where I stand, I can see up to 6 streetlights at once from my (back) garden, the most obtrusive of which is an LED on an adjacent estate. All of these lights produce enough illumination for me to cast shadows and the light is not going where it should be. Let's not even mention the rottweiler lights. I don't think it's too much to ask for streetlighting to be confined to streets and not wasted on spill areas where it's sometimes a nuisance.

Edited December 15, 2020 by wulfrun
typo

[Stuart1971]

27 minutes ago, Scooot said:

I’m not trying to wind you up, we are going round in circles. I’ll try to explain my opinion in a different way? 

If there are no more street lights anywhere, would these “already criminals” commit any more crimes than they do now? There wouldn’t be any easy targets because everywhere’s  the same. So would it make them be busier burglars? 

You really are lacking somewhere.....let’s leave it please...👍

[Stuart1971]

26 minutes ago, Phillyo said:

Signed. Shades should always be included, it makes no sense not to really.

If you going to put shades on them, you may aswell take them all down as they will serve no purpose....simples....👍😀