Hi all...

[Jasonb]

Just found this forum and it looks like it's really active which bodes well!

Like a lot of newbies I'm sure, I've always been interested in Astronomy and used to own a small refractor years ago, but I'm finally deciding to take the plunge and get a decent beginners set up.

Of course, I seem to have picked the absolute wrong time to do this, as nearly any telescope I've been interested in is sold out everywhere, and with Brexit finally finally happening soon, I don't know how that will affect buying online (I live in Ireland). At this stage it's looking doubtful that I'll get a telescope before the new year. The ideal for me would be the Skywatcher Starquest 130P, which seems a great set up for £170 (if anyone had one!).

However, I am enjoying all the research online and learning so much already about Astronomy. I'm also looking into what accessories I should get, at least I can get them sooner, as they're in stock! From various sites/videos online, most places seem to recommend the following...

Barlow 2x
Laser Collimator
Better eyepieces if needed
Fliters

I was looking for some advice, as there are so many options out there! I've seen some people recommend a Barlow that can do both 1.5x and 2x. I've seen laser and non-laser Collimators recommended. As for Eyepieces, Skywatcher do their own brand of Super Plossl eyepieces, but I don't know if they're decent or not.

And as for Filters! For the Moon, I've seen people recommend a specific 'Moon' filter, I've also seen Polariszing filters (including adjustable ones) being recommend, and also Blue Filters. If there was one type of filter to help with the Moon, and potentially other stuff too, which would you all recommend?

I've also seen a Light Pollution filter being advised, and I was wondering if that's a good idea to get? I live in an estate on the edge of a town, so there's a fair bit of light pollution, but darker skies aren't too far away from me.

Another thing I was wondering about... The Starquest 130P comes with an EQ mount (which can also be used as an AZ mount). My back garden, where I would do a good bit of observing obviously, faces south. So, stupid newbie question, I need to see Polaris to align the mount, don't I? So if my own house is blocking Polaris, that's gonna cause issues, isn't it? I'm gonna check tonight to see if I can see it from my back garden, I'm hoping it will be high enough in the sky.

Oh, another thing... I've read a lot of good things about Sky Safari, and I was wondering if the Plus version is worth the money over the free one, and would there be any point of my going for the Pro one, or is that overkill for a Newbie? There's a sale on now, so Plus costs €7 and the Pro costs €20.

Sorry for all these questions, once I started I couldn't stop...

Any advice appreciated, thanks!

Jason.

 

[Sunshine]

Welcome to SGL! i am sure someone here will have experience with the scope you mentioned above and will assist you with what you may need to start.

[Jasonb]

Thanks! I've done the first obvious thing and gone out the backgarden and found Polaris, so at least I know I could align an EQ mount there!

[Sunshine]

Having a view of Polaris certainty helps, as you mention SkySafari is a great tool for navigating the night sky. Do you have any books for amateur astronomers like “Turn Left at Orion” I highly recommend this book for beginners. You need not worry too much about having a pile of accessories/eyepieces off the start, two or three eyepieces, a moon filter and Skysafari will have you on your way nicely. An FYI when calculating the power of a particular eyepiece, you divide the focal length of the scope (650mm in your case) By the focal length of the eyepiece you’re interested in.

ex: if you’re buying a 10mm eyepiece, to determine its magnification in your scope just divide 650 by 10=65x magnification.

[Jasonb]

Thanks for your advice. I'll definitely look up Turn Left at Orion. Yeah, I've been learning a bit about Focal Lengths etc., stuff I haven't heard since university!

[Sunshine]

1 minute ago, Jasonb said:

Thanks for your advice. I'll definitely look up Turn Left at Orion. Yeah, I've been learning a bit about Focal Lengths etc., stuff I haven't heard since university!

A pleasure to have you with us! maybe search up the 130P on YouTube for some hands on advice, it is a great resource. Have loads of fun discovering this great hobby! 

[fozzybear]

Jason,

Welcome onboard SGL you will certainly get a lot of advice here. Agree with @Sunshine with  the book "Turn left at Orion" As per Filters see how you go on without them to start with as you can waste money rather quickly in this Astro hobby on stuff that will stay in the drawer. As per eyepieces have a look at "BST Starguiders" a step up from the basic's and won't break the bank. I use sky safari on my mobile/tablet but if you have a desktop/laptop you can download Stellarium free as well to help you.

Andy  

[Tiny Clanger]

25 minutes ago, Jasonb said:

J..... most places seem to recommend the following...

Barlow 2x
Laser Collimator
Better eyepieces if needed
Fliters

I was looking for some advice, as there are so many options out there! I've seen some people recommend a Barlow that can do both 1.5x and 2x. I've seen laser and non-laser Collimators recommended. As for Eyepieces, Skywatcher do their own brand of Super Plossl eyepieces, but I don't know if they're decent or not.

And as for Filters! For the Moon, I've seen people recommend a specific 'Moon' filter, I've also seen Polariszing filters (including adjustable ones) being recommend, and also Blue Filters. If there was one type of filter to help with the Moon, and potentially other stuff too, which would you all recommend?

I've also seen a Light Pollution filter being advised, and I was wondering if that's a good idea to get? I live in an estate on the edge of a town, so there's a fair bit of light pollution, but darker skies aren't too far away from me.

Hi Jason, and welcome !

So many questions ... 😀 I'll only address the few I know anything about !

Some barlows like the skywatcher one I bought, which if I recall correctly was about £30, ( i.e. at the cheap end of the price range, do avoid like the plague any £15 far eastern offerings, they are plastic tat ) give 2X magnification when used as a whole assembly, but you can unscrew just the lens part from the tube, screw the lens directly on the eyepiece, and get 1.5X. Honestly, while my barlow is OK, it isn't wonderful, just as with eyepieces, you need to pay more if you have high expectations.

So, eyepieces ... as I've said elsewhere in threads about beginner kit, I went with the skywatcher 17mm plossl as my first purchase to see if it was genuinely an improvement over the supplied 10mm and 25mm . It was . Since then I've acquired a couple of the much recommended BST starguiders, (an 8mm and a 25mm) which are around £40 each new (plus P&P) e.g. here https://skys-the-limit-108154.square.site/shop/1-25-bst-starguider-ed/8

if you can find any in stock ! The BSTs give better views than the skywatcher plossls, but at double the price. The skywatcher plossls I have bought ( that 17mm, which is my favourite, a 12.5mm which is streets better than the bundled 10mm, and a 32mm which even I can see distorts around the edges, but is still useful .

I didn't buy any filters right up until until I tried to look at the full moon and got blown back from the telescope by the dazzle ! Some people don't find it a problem, so I'd wait until you get the 'scope. Some  moon filters are a neutral grey, some have a coloured tint ( greenish in the case of the cheap Celestron one) , I've not used the polarizing type ( Santa has it on my list though ... ) but know from (non-astro) photography that what they are is a pair of polarizing filters which when rotated with respect to each other vary the amount of light that gets through, so you can choose the exact amount of darkening you like, not the case with simple filters.

Excuse me, the 'scope should have cooled down now, and the sky is clear ... I'm off outside !

Heather

[Zermelo]

Welcome Jason.

Advice for new starters is often "see how you get on with your initial setup, then decide what else to get", but it's understandable that you want to pre-order in these Covid times.

The Starquest 130P comes with the Skywatcher stock 10mm and 25mm eyepieces - they are a "modified achromat" design. I have both, and while they're perfectly usable, you will start to notice limitations, especially with the 10mm.  Your Starquest is a "fast" (shorter focal length) scope. There are advantages and disadvantages, and one of the latter is that it will be less forgiving of mediocre eyepieces. If you do decide to splash out on another, then the BST Starguiders mentioned by Tiny Clanger are an excellent minimum step up. I'd recommend FLO but, as you say, stock levels are awful and I think they're out. But looking at their website, SkiesTheLimit seem to have just had a new delivery. Another option is to invest in a decent zoom eyepiece, which will cover a whole range. The image quality can be comparable with a fixed lens, but the field of view will be smaller. One that is often recommended is the Hyperflex 7.2mm - 21.5mm, another decent one is made by Svbony.

A reasonable barlow such as this one will be worthwhile. Personally I'd hold off on the laser collimator for now, you may manage with cheaper alternatives like a cheshire eyepiece or cap. Filters - see how you get on with the moon. If you find it's too bright, then either the "neutral density" version (you buy one with a strength suitable for your telescope aperture) or the polarising version that lets you adjust the effect. Light pollution filters are increasingly ineffective against the modern LED streetlights. There are some that claim to, but they are expensive.

Skysafari is great - I'd get the free one for now, maybe upgrade to the Plus later, but probably not worth getting Pro.

Good viewing!

 

[Jasonb]

Wow! Thanks for taking the time to reply everyone, I appreciate it.

I do wish it was 'my Starquest', right now it's just what I'm hoping to get. It's so annoying that stock levels are so poor right now, hard to get into the hobby if you can't get a Telescope!

Some great advice here, thanks. I'll check out the BST Starguiders, everywhere recommended upgrading the eye pieces, but it's hard to know which ones, until now! That dual Baader Barlow looks good, though am I reading it right that it might only work with Baader eyepieces, or are others ok with it too?

This is exactly what I want, I'm getting a sense of specific makes and models rather than general recommendations. I'll wait 'til I get a telescope before I look at filters, thanks. And thanks for the advice with Skysafari as well.

A thought has occurred to me. I think I'm right in saying that based on the aperture size and focal length, there's basically a eyepiece that will give you your max magnification. Like, with the Starquest, the 130mm aperture suggests a max magnification of 260, and the 650 focal length means a 2.5mm eyepiece would give that 260 magnification. Is that right? In that case, rather than get a 2.5mm eyepiece, would it make more sense to get a 5mm eyepiece and use it with the 2x Barlow to reach 260x? 'Cos if you got a 2.5mm eyepiece, you couldn't use it with the Barlow as it would double the max magnification, so that eyepiece could only be used for 1 magnification level, whereas the 5mm could be used for two (on its own, or with a Barlow). Does that all make sense?

 

[laudropb]

Hello and a warm welcome to the SGL.

[banjaxed]

Hi Jason, welcome to SGL, enjoy the journey.

[Tiny Clanger]

Back in for a short coffee break after about an hour of Saturn , the Moon & Mars (Jupiter had slunk down behind the shed already) I was thinking about your questions (the first ones, not the supplementals !) . The 'scope I needed a moon filter for was my first purchase, a 150mm dobsonian reflector, but using the same eyepieces with my new toy , a 127 maksutov, I was entirely comfortable without any filter. So, wait and see if you need one.

Don't fall into the trap of thinking higher magnification must be better, there are limits, a search for 'telescope eyepieces maximum magnification' will get you hundreds of results and plenty of relevant reading.

 

[Floater]

Welcome. Hope you have lots of fun on the learning curve. 🙂

[Zermelo]

48 minutes ago, Jasonb said:

Wow! Thanks for taking the time to reply everyone, I appreciate it.

I do wish it was 'my Starquest', right now it's just what I'm hoping to get. It's so annoying that stock levels are so poor right now, hard to get into the hobby if you can't get a Telescope!

Some great advice here, thanks. I'll check out the BST Starguiders, everywhere recommended upgrading the eye pieces, but it's hard to know which ones, until now! That dual Baader Barlow looks good, though am I reading it right that it might only work with Baader eyepieces, or are others ok with it too?

This is exactly what I want, I'm getting a sense of specific makes and models rather than general recommendations. I'll wait 'til I get a telescope before I look at filters, thanks. And thanks for the advice with Skysafari as well.

A thought has occurred to me. I think I'm right in saying that based on the aperture size and focal length, there's basically a eyepiece that will give you your max magnification. Like, with the Starquest, the 130mm aperture suggests a max magnification of 260, and the 650 focal length means a 2.5mm eyepiece would give that 260 magnification. Is that right? In that case, rather than get a 2.5mm eyepiece, would it make more sense to get a 5mm eyepiece and use it with the 2x Barlow to reach 260x? 'Cos if you got a 2.5mm eyepiece, you couldn't use it with the Barlow as it would double the max magnification, so that eyepiece could only be used for 1 magnification level, whereas the 5mm could be used for two (on its own, or with a Barlow). Does that all make sense?

 

Yes, your reasoning makes sense, it's certainly worth planning your eyepiece purchases to maximise your range of options, including the barlow; however:

- sometimes you will get slightly better results with an "uncombined" eyepiece compared with an equivalent focal length using a barlow and doubled eyepiece. But often you see no difference, and occasionally the barlow combination may even perform better - it depends on the eyepieces and the barlow used, which is difficult to predict

- yes, in theory 260 times is attainable but in practice you will be limited by observing conditions to a lower magnification. So I certainly wouldn't get a 2.5mm eyepiece, and since your use of even a 5mm with a barlow would be very restricted, you might be better getting something slightly longer, perhaps aim for a magnification of around 160 -180 when used with the barlow

 

[Jasonb]

Thanks again. Yep, I wasn't really planning to get a 2.5mm, or even a 5mm necessarily for that matter, but it's good to know that my thought process made sense at least!  I would like to plan which eyepieces to spend money on.

After searching for 'telescope eyepieces maximum magnification' I'm currently reading through this https://agenaastro.com/articles/guides/choosing-eyepieces-for-your-telescope.html

Thanks!

[Zermelo]

51 minutes ago, Jasonb said:

Thanks again. Yep, I wasn't really planning to get a 2.5mm, or even a 5mm necessarily for that matter, but it's good to know that my thought process made sense at least!  I would like to plan which eyepieces to spend money on.

After searching for 'telescope eyepieces maximum magnification' I'm currently reading through this https://agenaastro.com/articles/guides/choosing-eyepieces-for-your-telescope.html

Thanks!

Yes, that's a good source.

Within this forum, this sticky is a good planning guide, and also this alternative that takes an approach based on exit pupil size.    

 

 

[Jasonb]

Well, that article was very interesting, and based the main calculations on what to get for low, medium and high power eyepieces on exit pupil size. Going by that criteria, the 'ideal' exit pupil sizes for the 130P would mean I'd want a 3.5mm, 10mm and 25mm. Being more practical, I'd probably be looking at a 5mm, 12mm (10mm not available in the BST Starguiders Range) and 25mm, though even the 5mm would never really get used with a Barlow, so perhaps going with an 8mm/12mm/25mm or something like that might be more practical. It's great that it gives me a sense of what to be looking for.

Of course, the Barlow calculations would change if I got the one recommended above (a 1.3x and 2.25x one) that would effectively give my 3 eyepieces 9 different magnifications. If I went with the 8mm, 12mm and 25mm with that Barlow, I'd end up with

x26, x34, x54, x59, x70, x81, x105, x122, x182

which wouldn't be a bad range at all.

Of course, this is all theory, practice may tell a completely different story!  And I should note that those 3 eyepieces and the Barlow would probably cost more than the 130P when it's back in stock.

Edited November 22, 2020 by Jasonb

[Tiny Clanger]

25 minutes ago, Jasonb said:

Well, that article was very interesting, and based the main calculations on what to get for low, medium and high power eyepieces on exit pupil size. Going by that criteria, the 'ideal' exit pupil sizes for the 130P would mean I'd want a 3.5mm, 10mm and 25mm. Being more practical, I'd probably be looking at a 5mm, 12mm (10mm not available in the BST Starguiders Range) and 25mm, though even the 5mm would never really get used with a Barlow, so perhaps going with an 8mm/12mm/25mm or something like that might be more practical. It's great that it gives me a sense of what to be looking for.

Of course, the Barlow calculations would change if I got the one recommended above (a 1.3x and 2.25x one) that would effectively give my 3 eyepieces 9 different magnifications. If I went with the 8mm, 12mm and 25mm with that Barlow, I'd end up with

x26, x34, x54, x59, x70, x81, x105, x122, x182

which wouldn't be a bad range at all.

Of course, this is all theory, practice may tell a completely different story!  And I should note that those 3 eyepieces and the Barlow would probably cost more than the 130P when it's back in stock.

Sounds like a good plan ! Note that the included with the 'scope 25mm is tolerable ,so you might consider using that to start with, and buying the 8mm  starguider first to replace the more dubious 10mm. Then when finances allow address the rest of the range. It doesn't seem like such a lot of money if you do it bit by bit ... at least, that's what I tell myself ...

Heather

[Zermelo]

39 minutes ago, Jasonb said:

And I should note that those 3 eyepieces and the Barlow would probably cost more than the 130P when it's back in stock

Yes, that's not unusual!  And astrophotographers will often spend more on their mount than on the tube. It's a funny old hobby.

Just one more comment - with the barlows liker the Baader that split and give you two magnifications, it's not always possible to use the smaller component with all eyepieces to give you the lower multiplier. For example, the Baader 1.3 option isn't available with all of the Starguider range, because there isn't enough room at the nose end of some of them to screw in the barlow piece. So you may not get as many focal length combinations as it might appear.

[Jasonb]

Yep, the plan would definitely be to slowly add equipment over time, and I'd read elsewhere that the 25mm that comes with the Telescope is decent enough, so a lower focal length eyepiece would probably be the first purchase.

@Zermelowhen you say 'at the nose end', what do you mean? I assume the smaller Barlow screws into the opposite end from the rubber eyepiece end, so it depends on the 'silver' end of the Starguider being long enough to take the piece? Do you know which of the Starguider range can't take that Barlow?

[Zermelo]

Yes, that's it. The threaded inside of the "silver" end is really designed to take filters, which are not very deep. The "1.3" part of the Baader barlow is deeper than a standard filter.

I only have three of the BSTs. I can tell you for sure that the 8mm and 12mm don't have enough room. My 18mm will almost accept it, but I haven't tried it out in the scope - I expect it will work, but might give a different magnification. To be honest, I bought the Baader to use at 2.25x, and anything else is a bonus.
I haven't seen anywhere that will answer the question for the whole BST range. That internal measurement isn't one that is normally quoted. But I suspect several forum members have a full set and may be able to advise.

[Jasonb]

Cool, thanks for confirming that, it does mean I wouldn't have as many options as I thought with that layout. But I can use that knowledge to plan which eyepieces to get to the best range for my money.

Edited November 22, 2020 by Jasonb

[Dave Lloyd]

Hi Jason, welcome. 

[Jasonb]

Thanks for the welcome! I have to say, I'm on a few different forums for different topics and I'm really struck by the amount of replies I've gotten, makes me feel quite welcome for a newbie!

So, things changed quickly. I had been looking at the Starquest 130P, deciding I really wanted a 130P if possible, and the EQ mount, while possibly overkill for my first 'scope (do people say 'scope' or is that not cool? ), might have advantages later on. But, of course, nowhere has anything in stock for ages, so that's frustrating.

Then FLO announce their Black Friday sale and I start thinking I should be open to other telescopes, and not be so locked into the Starquest. So I did a bit of research about other potential 130Ps and then FLO offer a Skywatcher Heritage 130P! Some quick research shows it basically has the same aperture, focal length etc. etc. as the Starquest, so the 'basics' are there for me. A light shroud and some pfe tape for the focuser seem to me the main first mods (though I'll look into that more later) and that doesn't seem too daunting. And the Dobsonian mount really is going to be easier to deal with from the off. This telescope is for me, but I have a 7 year old daughter as well, and this telescope seem like it would be much easier for her to get into too.

So after that quick research I pulled the trigger and got the Heritage!  Can't wait to get my hands on it now, it'll be good to being a beginner who actually has a telescope! Most of my thoughts around the Barlow/Eyepieces etc. are still valid as it's effectively the same size telescope. In fact, this one doesn't come with a Barlow, so the 2 way Barlow (1.3x and 2.25x) might be a good first buy now, before looking at eyepieces.

Clearly I'm just writing all this 'cos I found a telescope in stock and I'm all happy, but I also want to say thanks to the forum already for the help and advice I've gotten, I literally wouldn't have bought a telescope today if I hadn't have joined here.

I don't want to bend any potential forum rules by continuing to use my 'welcome' thread for weeks and weeks, so I'll probably look at starting a new equipment thread in the Newbie section (if that's the right place to go?) once I get the telescope.

Thanks again!