Using Sony A6500 for astro imaging with a computer

[Karen Johnson]

Is there any way of controlling the Sony with computer software for astro imaging?  Interested to learn if others have a a Sony A6500 and how they use it.  I am about to take delivery of an ED80 for use on a SW EQ3 Pro mount and am looking at whether my existing camera is up to the job or whether I should get a Canon dslr for astro work.    Thanks. 

[DaveL59]

Hi Karen

I've not tried with a camera as yet but I've been researching a new DSLR body and looking at Sony as existing gear was Minolta film so I wanted compatibility with the lenses I have. While trawling about I came across this

https://petapixel.com/2017/05/04/star-eater-issue-no-longer-recommend-sony-cameras-astrophotography/

Now I don't plan on doing much via the scope but might want to play a little so that rules out the mirrorless models to me, at least if you want 30s or longer exposures. Others may have already used this model tho and have different reports, worth posting which firmware yours has in case that gives any more info.

[Karen Johnson]

11 hours ago, DaveL59 said:

Hi Karen

I've not tried with a camera as yet but I've been researching a new DSLR body and looking at Sony as existing gear was Minolta film so I wanted compatibility with the lenses I have. While trawling about I came across this

https://petapixel.com/2017/05/04/star-eater-issue-no-longer-recommend-sony-cameras-astrophotography/

Now I don't plan on doing much via the scope but might want to play a little so that rules out the mirrorless models to me, at least if you want 30s or longer exposures. Others may have already used this model tho and have different reports, worth posting which firmware yours has in case that gives any more info.

Hi Dave

 

https://petapixel.com/2018/06/08/sonys-star-eater-problem-has-been-defeated-in-the-a7-iii/

Update link above.

There are quite a few posts about how this issue has been ‘fixed’ so I don’t believe it is as bad as it sounds but it would be interesting to hear from some current Sony users on the forum about this 

Edited November 21, 2020 by Karen Johnson
Added name

[DaveL59]

thanks Karen, nice to know they've fixed it. Nikon apparently used to suffer the same. I guess its a case of try it and see with regards to your A6500. For me the A7iii will be way above budget and I'm unconvinced on the compact-style mirrorless models as noted in another thread in the non-astro section where I was considering an A700. Am more leaning toward an A77 or A77ii now but yet to tap the buy button.

For remote control have you tried Sony's Imaging Edge suite? I believe the A6500 should support live view on the PC when USB tethered as should the 77ii
https://support.d-imaging.sony.co.jp/app/imagingedge/en/devices/#emount

Smartphone app tho may well be more limited, for the 77ii it seems to act as a remote shutter release and not much more which is a pity.

[Mick J]

There is an old thread on the A5000, 

The last few posts on page 3 may be helpful, it may depend on model and having the latest software on the camera.

[Karen Johnson]

2 hours ago, DaveL59 said:

thanks Karen, nice to know they've fixed it. Nikon apparently used to suffer the same. I guess its a case of try it and see with regards to your A6500. For me the A7iii will be way above budget and I'm unconvinced on the compact-style mirrorless models as noted in another thread in the non-astro section where I was considering an A700. Am more leaning toward an A77 or A77ii now but yet to tap the buy button.

For remote control have you tried Sony's Imaging Edge suite? I believe the A6500 should support live view on the PC when USB tethered as should the 77ii
https://support.d-imaging.sony.co.jp/app/imagingedge/en/devices/#emount

Smartphone app tho may well be more limited, for the 77ii it seems to act as a remote shutter release and not much more which is a pity.

Hi Dave.  I’ve tested the Sony Imaging Edge suite and it’s capability depends on the camera.  For me, it controls the shutter speed up to 30 secs, you can adjust aperture, white balance, auto focus, shooting mode an ISO but the biggest option missing is to be able to programme a shutter time when using Bulb.  I can set it up to take multiple exposures with a specified interval between them but if you want to do anything longer than 30 secs you have to use an intervalometer and herein lies the rub, the A6500 has one mini USB port so you can only have one accessory plugged in at a time, so, I can start off with the computer connected and use the screen to take a high ISO test shot to check framing, then set the focus but then I would have to disconnect the computer and plug in the intervalometer to take my multiple 120sec subs (as an example).  
 

Have made the decision to keep my beloved Sony for my daytime landscape photography and buy a used Canon for astro which I will get modded, that way I get the best of both worlds and can play with software as I do enjoy the technical side of photography. 

[Karen Johnson]

22 minutes ago, Mick J said:

There is an old thread on the A5000, 

The last few posts on page 3 may be helpful, it may depend on model and having the latest software on the camera.

Hi

Not an issue for the A6500 as you can turn long exposure NR off fortunately but thanks for raising this, I did find this post previously when I was searching back posts for any commentary on Sony cameras.

[Mick J]

I picked up a used A6000 on eBay, still coming to terms with it.  Far to many options and buttons, I updated the camera to V3.21 and can confirm using imaging edge no long exposure NR.  Quite impressed with imaging edge but have not used the camera for any astro, lens or telescope. 

[Karen Johnson]

10 minutes ago, Mick J said:

I picked up a used A6000 on eBay, still coming to terms with it.  Far to many options and buttons, I updated the camera to V3.21 and can confirm using imaging edge no long exposure NR.  Quite impressed with imaging edge but have not used the camera for any astro, lens or telescope. 

Stick with it, they are great little cameras but the menu format sucks!  I purchased a great book by David Busch.  He has written a series of guides for using Sony A series right from out of the box through and set up to working through every menu option.  If he does a guide for the A6000, well worth the money.  He gives recommendations on which settings to use and explains what they do far better than the Sony provided guide does.  I recommend it.

[DaveL59]

ahh I hadn't realised you'd have no control in bulb mode, Sony seem to miss a lot of tricks in some areas unfortunately. Too consumer oriented I think unlike when this arm was a photographic operation in the Minolta days. 

[Mick J]

On 21/11/2020 at 14:38, Karen Johnson said:

I purchased a great book by David Busch.  He has written a series of guides for using Sony A series right from out of the box through and set up to working through every menu option.  

Thanks Karen, I now have that.

I have seen references to a Sony Ascom driver that may work with APT and Sharpcap, may be worth a search.

[Gfamily]

In case people didn't read the full thread on why you shouldn't buy the A5000, the main issue raised is that the Noise Reduction (dark frame image) can't be switched off, so any long exposure is followed by the same length of 'processing', so a 1 minute exposure on Bulb will be followed by a 1 minute dark frame exposure before you can take your next image. 

However, this is not actually the case, as there is a Continuous Bracket mode which doesn't do the Noise Reduction.

In fact, none of the continuous modes does NR, but only Continuous Bracket mode works with Bulb. 

Edited November 22, 2020 by Gfamily

[DaveL59]

On 21/11/2020 at 14:38, Karen Johnson said:

Stick with it, they are great little cameras but the menu format sucks!  I purchased a great book by David Busch.  He has written a series of guides for using Sony A series right from out of the box through and set up to working through every menu option.  If he does a guide for the A6000, well worth the money.  He gives recommendations on which settings to use and explains what they do far better than the Sony provided guide does.  I recommend it.

may well do the same as I've now committed on an A77ii, once it arrives and I've had a chance to test it out I'll have a look for his guide as I see he has one for this model too.

[Karen Johnson]

5 hours ago, Mick J said:

Thanks Karen, I now have that.

I have seen references to a Sony Ascom driver that may work with APT and Sharpcap, may be worth a search.

Mick, can you tell me which chapter in the book refers to that?  On another note, I picked up a Canon 450d on eBay today for £105, already astromodded and it comes with a t ring!  At least that gives me something to get going with, of course, I still need a the telescope which I will be picking up once lockdown ends.

[Karen Johnson]

4 hours ago, DaveL59 said:

may well do the same as I've now committed on an A77ii, once it arrives and I've had a chance to test it out I'll have a look for his guide as I see he has one for this model too.

Excellent, love to hear how you get on with the A7.  Whereabouts in Kent are you Dave?  Do you have dark skies in your area?

[DaveL59]

Just now, Karen Johnson said:

Excellent, love to hear how you get on with the A7.  Whereabouts in Kent are you Dave?  Do you have dark skies in your area?

ahh it's an SLT-A77-ii not the A7 🙂

I'm in Chatham area not far off the M2, it's reasonably dark in the back garden tho being up a hill and woodland around, tho you can't escape the sky glow and so far this year it doesn't seem as dark up there as it used to be.

[Karen Johnson]

1 minute ago, DaveL59 said:

ahh it's an SLT-A77-ii not the A7 🙂

I'm in Chatham area not far off the M2, it's reasonably dark in the back garden tho being up a hill and woodland around, tho you can't escape the sky glow and so far this year it doesn't seem as dark up there as it used to be.

Lucky you, I’m in Cuxton, junction 2 of the M2, right on the river (literally as I live on a boat) with the M2 road bridge and Eurostar viaduct all lit up, if that wasn't bad enough, have the glow from the leisure park nearby.  Will have to travel each time I want to do any photography I think.

[DaveL59]

6 minutes ago, Karen Johnson said:

Lucky you, I’m in Cuxton, junction 2 of the M2, right on the river (literally as I live on a boat) with the M2 road bridge and Eurostar viaduct all lit up, if that wasn't bad enough, have the glow from the leisure park nearby.  Will have to travel each time I want to do any photography I think.

oh that's no fun, mists too from the river at all? How are winters on a boat tho, cold I'd have thought?

I know the M2 bridge well as I used to be a regular on that road heading back from work via the A228.

Here My garden view is mainly SE as there's a big oak just past the end to the south. North side the fence is higher so that limits low targets. I'm not so much planning on astro imaging other than perhaps the odd play, happy with visual but will be nice to have the option with the DSLR to explore should I fancy trying. I did have a brief play with the Fuji bridge but I don't think that was an ideal camera and other things got in the way of experimenting further.

[Mick J]

1 hour ago, Karen Johnson said:

Mick, can you tell me which chapter in the book refers to that?  On another note, I picked up a Canon 450d on eBay today for £105, already astromodded and it comes with a t ring!  At least that gives me something to get going with, of course, I still need a the telescope which I will be picking up once lockdown ends.

Not in the book Karen,  APT forum and GitHub  possibly This      Don't know if this is helpful or a diversion.

Canon 450D modified is good, my lad & I modified one a few years ago strangely he has just started using it again with a 135mm Samyang.

Edited November 22, 2020 by Mick J

[Karen Johnson]

22 minutes ago, Mick J said:

Not in the book Karen,  APT forum and GitHub  possibly This      Don't know if this is helpful or a diversion.

Canon 450D modified is good, my lad & I modified one a few years ago strangely he has just started using it again with a 135mm Samyang.

Probably a diversion but I am easily diverted 😆 

[Karen Johnson]

1 hour ago, Mick J said:

Not in the book Karen,  APT forum and GitHub  possibly This      Don't know if this is helpful or a diversion.

Canon 450D modified is good, my lad & I modified one a few years ago strangely he has just started using it again with a 135mm Samyang.

Well I’ve read all through that Mick and it sounds too technical for me so I will run with the Canon for now but it’s good to see that there are solutions out there for Sony cameras.

[DaveL59]

7 minutes ago, Karen Johnson said:

Well I’ve read all through that Mick and it sounds too technical for me so I will run with the Canon for now but it’s good to see that there are solutions out there for Sony cameras.

ahhh nearing the top of that slippery slope now then, astrophotography 😮 

What scope are you getting as for imaging the mount is critical for stability?

Ah yes, looking back the EQ3 pro, should be ok to start off with given the scope chosen.

Edited November 22, 2020 by DaveL59

[Karen Johnson]

13 hours ago, DaveL59 said:

ahhh nearing the top of that slippery slope now then, astrophotography 😮 

What scope are you getting as for imaging the mount is critical for stability?

Ah yes, looking back the EQ3 pro, should be ok to start off with given the scope chosen.

After much to-ing  and fro-ing, I bought a Skywatcher Equinox ED80 Apo.  Purchased second hand from another Kentish Dave.  It comes with an electric focused and HitecAstro controller, WO rings and dovetail.  It was looking into what the electric focuser did that started to lead me down the path of computer control. As far as weight goes, will be fine on my mount and I can’t wait to pick it up especially as Dave 2 is going to set it up on the night and give me an overview on how to use it all.  Will be looking for the first clear night after lockdown ends.

 

[DaveL59]

I'm guessing you'll be needing to run your laptop as well as mount and other electronic gear too in that case. Dew heaters as well. Worth considering what portable power you can take along with you to give good run-time. More expensive but LiFePo will be a lot easier to lug than lead batteries, as well as easier on maintenance.

[Mick J]

As I have a Sony A6000 camera and a Windows 10pro 64bit laptop, have played with Ascom and APT in the past, am in lockdown and it’s damp out…….  Why not give it a go eh.

Download the latest versions of Ascom, APT and Doug Henderson’s Ascom driver for Sony.  Install Ascom with the few extras it needs, had to adjust my virus software to allow the install.    Install APT and install the camera driver.

On the camera set to Manual and bulb mode (I seem to have a menu option in camera settings to turn long exposure noise reduction and high ISO noise reduction to OFF in manual mode) and set picture quality, set iso, set aperture and set usb mode to PC Remote.

USB cable twix camera and laptop, open APT, click connect to camera, Ascom camera and Sony mirrorless chosen. Click Properties and chose target APT and set output mode.

I can now set number of frames, length and interval in APT and picture shows in frame after exposure, I am unable to zoom. 

I set up 4 x 300 second shots with 10 second intervals and that works,  Raw & jpg saved to laptop, run 3 x 700 second with 10 second intervals and that works,  used 80% of  battery so that wants looking at.

Conclusion is the driver works for me with APT and my A6000.

Some links:  Wiki    GitHub    Supported Cameras

Edited November 28, 2020 by Mick J