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Explore Scientific 12mm 92° has arrived


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6 hours ago, Louis D said:

I found them in stock at multiple places in the US (Agena, OPT, Amazon, High Point, possibly others).  How badly do you want one?

Yeah I've looked at all of those too.  With delivery and import duty and the current exchange rate they end up about £150 more than UK / EU sources, but admittedly they can at least get me one.   I guess I'm not that desperate for one <shrug>. 

I do wonder what price they will be in the UK when they do become available... with covid and brexit et al this may be the price I have to find for one anyway. 🤔

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12 hours ago, globular said:

My ES92/12 should arrive tomorrow....

image.thumb.png.94ae01b24404cc1cc2ce058e814e9862.png

... very excited! :happy2:

Well the tracking has changed to this....

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... but I don't have it! 

It's not been left anywhere or thrown over the gate or left with neighbours.
I don't think I'm destined to get the ES92's.

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1 minute ago, michael.h.f.wilkinson said:

That is weird. Have you contacted UPS?

I've gone back to the retailer (Harrision Telescopes) and they are contacting UPS.... it's now a waiting game.

I have a gloomy feeling that it's going to be a very long wait to eventually end up with my money back rather than a lump of glass.

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2 hours ago, globular said:

I have a gloomy feeling that it's going to be a very long wait to eventually end up with my money back rather than a lump of glass.

Update:  I've found it! 

I decided to walk the streets in the rain to see if anything had been left on anyone's doorsteps and, amazingly, I both found it and didn't get reported for furtive behaviour. 

Very poor by UPS to leave it where they did - but I'm just happy I've got it at last.

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3 hours ago, globular said:

Update:  I've found it! 

I decided to walk the streets in the rain to see if anything had been left on anyone's doorsteps and, amazingly, I both found it and didn't get reported for furtive behaviour. 

Very poor by UPS to leave it where they did - but I'm just happy I've got it at last.

Glad you found it! Did clouds follow you home? 

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Just now, michael.h.f.wilkinson said:

Glad you found it! Did clouds follow you home? 

Do you think the clouds will be fooled by the mis-delivery and plague my neighbour rather than me?
It was raining when I picked it up and it's raining again now so I'm not so sure.

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On 20/11/2020 at 07:27, globular said:

Update:  I've found it! 

I decided to walk the streets in the rain to see if anything had been left on anyone's doorsteps and, amazingly, I both found it and didn't get reported for furtive behaviour. 

Very poor by UPS to leave it where they did - but I'm just happy I've got it at last.

We get our USPS deliveries to a common mailbox area at the back of our neighborhood.  Our postal workers are always misdelivering things to us.  Our local post office gets 2 out of 5 stars on yelp because of it.  I try to get deliveries done by anyone else when possible.

As an example of their incompetence, I had over $1000 worth of jewelry supplies (another hobby of mine) delivered, but not to me.  I was having a panic attack over it.  None of my neighbors had seen it, so I waited for the postman to reappear the next day and made him check the neighbors' boxes with me.  Sure enough, it was delivered to the neighbor one street over with the same house number, and they hadn't yet picked up the day before's mail.  The postman explained they use substitutes around the holidays who are completely clueless, and it was the day after Thanksgiving when it was delivered.  Perhaps that's what UPS is doing in your area.

Our PO also marks items as delivered just to meet on-time requirements when it fact they have not been delivered.  In reality, they show up anywhere from 1 day later to never.  However, you can't claim a lost package when the PO says it's been delivered.  You can start a package trace, but that never turns up anything when they're trying to cover their lying behinds.

By comparison, UPS, Fedex, and Amazon are generally 100% accurate with their deliveries in our area; so I'm very surprised by your experience.

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58 minutes ago, Louis D said:

By comparison, UPS, Fedex, and Amazon are generally 100% accurate with their deliveries in our area; so I'm very surprised by your experience.

Most houses on our road face the road directly and are clearly displaying their number.  Others, of which ours is one, are set back down long driveways, so we do take a bit more seeking out. We're number 33 and our driveway falls between 31 and 35 which are both clearly visible as you drive down the road.  Not rocket science to work our we're down there but when this is missed our problems start. (We do have a sign with the road name and house number on it!).

Our road turns into another one with a different name without warning (i.e. without a junction or obvious physical change - there are large clear name signs!) and both have the same numbers on them - so we sometimes get their mail and they get ours.  This was not the issue this time.

The odd numbers are one side of the road and even on the other (fairly standard in UK) but they do not run opposite each other (less common).  Sometimes a delivery driver will find the house 1 away from ours (34 perhaps) and then just deliver it next door to, or directly opposite, them.  This is rarer but has happened.  This was not the issue this time.

Our number is 33 and one or more of the 3s are sometimes confused with 5s or 8s. We've had mail delivered to or from all permutations over the years we've lived here.  This was not the issue this time.

I'm not sure what happened this time - I can't think of any reason why the house it was left at was chosen. Just a genuine mistake perhaps. Or maybe just picked a house at random when ours didn't jump out and grab them.

shrug.gif.e5d00fc274d7dc84c8ce916cec56c5d4.gif

 

p.s. from the above it sounds like this is a big problem here.  It isn't that bad.  We've been here over 20 years and have had thousands of deliveries over that time with only a small number of mistakes - mostly when we get a new postman!

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3 hours ago, globular said:

Most houses on our road face the road directly and are clearly displaying their number.  Others, of which ours is one, are set back down long driveways, so we do take a bit more seeking out.

Most houses down long driveways in the US have mailboxes at the street/road with the address on them:

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Even in the city, this is fairly common:

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Ever thought about putting your mailbox out at the street/road?

Edited by Louis D
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On 18/11/2020 at 18:26, globular said:

I’d be interested to hear how they perform.
I’m still new to astronomy and have lots of gaps in my EP line-up.
I’m wondering if a 2” 1.6x or 1.5x would help fill some gaps while EP stocks are so low.
I’ve tried a 22T4 with a powermate 2x and it works really well. Would the Antares 1.6x and / or the nosepiece of the GSO ED (giving 1.5x) work as seamlessly? Or with some aberrations? They are a lot cheaper than the TV after all.
 

I tried both ES-92s in a variety of Barlow/PBI/CC combinations tonight to view the moon with my 8" f/6 Dob.  The cleanest view would have to go to the Orion Deluxe 2" Barlow.  It was simply sharp across the field.  The GSO ED 2" Barlow was close behind, but caused (or failed to mask) a bit of field curvature and slight sharpness issues at the edge.  Adding the PBI to the GSO ED seemed to flatten the field, but introduced edge aberrations of some sort.  With no bright stars handy, further diagnosis will have to wait.  For the longest focal length eyepieces, there was definite field truncation with either Barlow alone, but the Orion was again sharper across the field.  The GSO+PBI eliminated the truncation, but the image wasn't as sharp across the field.

Adding the GSO CC into the mix (between the eyepiece and either Barlow) did nothing to sharpen the image of the Orion Deluxe with the ES-92s.  I would say the image was much better without it.  Results were similar with the GSO ED.  However, adding the GSO CC to either Barlow eliminated the field truncation seen with the longest focal length eyepieces.  It was acting a bit like a PBI, apparently.  I was undecided if the GSO ED + PBI was better than the GSO ED + GSO CC with longest eyepieces.  Going GSO ED + PBI + GSO CC would seem ideal, but again, the results were mixed with longest eyepieces and downright bad with the ES-92s.  I think there's just too much glass and too many interactions going on.

Screwing the GSO ED lens element directly onto the bottom of every eyepiece resulted in a sharp inner 50% and a dreadful outer 50%.  Literally all eyepieces turned to a blurry mush that couldn't be refocused in the outer 50%.  Highly NOT recommended.

My recommendation for the ES-92s would be to try to find a Japanese made Orion Deluxe 2" Barlow if you have a Dob and skip adding a CC to it for use with the ES-92s.  Barring finding the Orion or another vintage long 2" Barlow, the GSO ED is a decent alternative.  I'm not sure how much improvement a genuine TV Powermate would yield as I could see no significant image degradation introduced by the long Barlow.  There was a tiny bit introduced by the shorty GSO ED Barlow around the edges.  It was a subtle difference.    The 12mm ES-92 in particular did best with the Orion alone.  Adding either the PBI or GSO CC to the GSO ED led to less sharpness, so less is more in this case.  The good thing is that these Japanese 2" Barlows turn up for decent prices every once in a while on the used market because they are relatively unknown to today's astronomers.

For longest focal length eyepieces, the GSO ED + PBI worked best across the field and eliminated field truncation best.  However, central sharpness was again best in the Orion Barlow.  The gentler lens curves of the long Barlow seem less demanding on eyepieces even when a PBI was added to the GSO ED.

None of the combinations resulted in terribly finicky exit pupil issues.  The GSO ED, though, seemed to introduce more than the Orion, even with the PBI in place.

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4 hours ago, Louis D said:

I tried both ES-92s in a variety of Barlow/PBI/CC combinations tonight to view the moon with my 8" f/6 Dob.  The cleanest view would have to go to the Orion Deluxe 2" Barlow.  It was simply sharp across the field.  The GSO ED 2" Barlow was close behind, but caused (or failed to mask) a bit of field curvature and slight sharpness issues at the edge.  Adding the PBI to the GSO ED seemed to flatten the field, but introduced edge aberrations of some sort.  With no bright stars handy, further diagnosis will have to wait.  For the longest focal length eyepieces, there was definite field truncation with either Barlow alone, but the Orion was again sharper across the field.  The GSO+PBI eliminated the truncation, but the image wasn't as sharp across the field.

Adding the GSO CC into the mix (between the eyepiece and either Barlow) did nothing to sharpen the image of the Orion Deluxe with the ES-92s.  I would say the image was much better without it.  Results were similar with the GSO ED.  However, adding the GSO CC to either Barlow eliminated the field truncation seen with the longest focal length eyepieces.  It was acting a bit like a PBI, apparently.  I was undecided if the GSO ED + PBI was better than the GSO ED + GSO CC with longest eyepieces.  Going GSO ED + PBI + GSO CC would seem ideal, but again, the results were mixed with longest eyepieces and downright bad with the ES-92s.  I think there's just too much glass and too many interactions going on.

Screwing the GSO ED lens element directly onto the bottom of every eyepiece resulted in a sharp inner 50% and a dreadful outer 50%.  Literally all eyepieces turned to a blurry mush that couldn't be refocused in the outer 50%.  Highly NOT recommended.

My recommendation for the ES-92s would be to try to find a Japanese made Orion Deluxe 2" Barlow if you have a Dob and skip adding a CC to it for use with the ES-92s.  Barring finding the Orion or another vintage long 2" Barlow, the GSO ED is a decent alternative.  I'm not sure how much improvement a genuine TV Powermate would yield as I could see no significant image degradation introduced by the long Barlow.  There was a tiny bit introduced by the shorty GSO ED Barlow around the edges.  It was a subtle difference.    The 12mm ES-92 in particular did best with the Orion alone.  Adding either the PBI or GSO CC to the GSO ED led to less sharpness, so less is more in this case.  The good thing is that these Japanese 2" Barlows turn up for decent prices every once in a while on the used market because they are relatively unknown to today's astronomers.

For longest focal length eyepieces, the GSO ED + PBI worked best across the field and eliminated field truncation best.  However, central sharpness was again best in the Orion Barlow.  The gentler lens curves of the long Barlow seem less demanding on eyepieces even when a PBI was added to the GSO ED.

None of the combinations resulted in terribly finicky exit pupil issues.  The GSO ED, though, seemed to introduce more than the Orion, even with the PBI in place.

Interesting feedback Louis.

Is the Orion Deluxe 2" Barlow this one ?:

2" 2x Orion Deluxe Barlow Lens | Orion Telescopes: Barlows

The upper barrel section looks very similar to the body of the Mk 1 Antares 1.6x 2 inch barlow, also made in Japan. I wonder if the manufacturer is the same ?.

Did you encounter any issues with eye positioning when using the barlows with the ES 82 eyepieces ?. You mention exit pupil but I wasn't sure if you meant it's position in relation to distance from the eye lens or something else.

A barlow lens usually pushes out the eye relief to some extent. For me the eye relief with the 12mm ES 92 was too long as standard and it's just about OK with the 17mm. Personally, I would not want the eye position moved further out with these eyepieces. I can appreciate that the glasses wearer might have different preferences though !

 

 

Edited by John
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Mine looks identical to this one since I bought mine in 1998:

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I didn't notice any significant change to the exit pupil of either ES-92 when using this Barlow.  However, the shorty GSO ED Barlow made blackouts due to kidney beaning a bit more prevalent in the 12mm.  Screwing the GSO ED optics section onto the 12mm made matters even worse.  However, I was still able to use them.  I did try the notoriously SAEP riddled 26mm Meade MWA, and SAEP also got worse with GSO ED Barlowing.  I never noticed the eye relief getting longer with any of them, just SAEP getting worse.  It seems that long Barlows are gentler on SAEP than shorty Barlows, perhaps because the rays are not diverging so strongly as they enter the eyepiece.

I forgot to mention that you can't always use a long barlow on a telescope that uses a diagonal unless it has a lot of in-focus available because they have to be inserted 4 inches or so and then the focuser needs racked back out about 1.5 inches.  Thus, it needs inserted about 2.5 inches to maintain focus position.  That means that if you can only insert it about 1.5 inches into the diagonal, you'll still need at least another inch of in-focus, perhaps much more.  On a Newtonian, this is not an issue.

I also forgot to mention that screwing the GSO ED Barlow onto longest focal length eyepieces truncates the outer 25% or so of the field.  It's not a sharp cutoff like with the Orion.  Instead, it rapidly fuzzes out.  This is the same effect I see when using the Barlow section that came with my 20mm/30mm Agena 80°, so I never use it that way.  I've never even done a photo test through it in that configuration because it's so bad.

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From looking at the above photos I reckon the Orion Deluxe 2 inch 2x barlow is made by the same manufacturer that made the Antares 1.6x barlow. They put a longer barrel on it, used the same optic (they look identical as well) and the longer distance between the eyepiece optics and the barlow element creates a 2x amplification.

 

Edited by John
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On 24/11/2020 at 11:20, Don Pensack said:

One advantage to the shorter GSO ED barlow is that it is available under at least 8 different labels.

Many companies import the GSO under private label.

That, and it has almost exactly the same focal length as the TV Big Barlow, so it couples quite nicely with the TV PBI if you can find one used to make a poor man's 2" 2x Powermate for use with longest focal length eyepieces.

By comparison, the PBI makes a mess of the image in the 2" Orion Barlow because its focal length is way too long.  I can't really describe what happens to the image other than to say it gets very messy and headache inducing.

Edited by Louis D
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