Pentax XW 10mm with Barlow vs Pentax XW 5mm

[Mr Spock]

Even a short 2" is still quite a beast. Here's mine - bought from RVO many years ago - next to a Meade 140 Apo, which is even older.
 

[HollyHound]

On 15/11/2020 at 14:56, John said:

I will have to try using my 2.25x Baader barlow with my XW 10mm and find out how it compares with my 5mm XW

I suspect the result will be pretty close as has been said.

I've been screwing the removable lens section of the barlow directly into the barrel of a 4mm HD ortho that I have which gives a 1.3x amplification (3.1mm effective FL approx) and the results have been rather impressive with the bonus of making the short ortho eye relief a bit longer. Good glass in the Baader 2.25x barlow.

Well after all the deliberations, I've decided to keep things simple for now until I have a better feel for what my exact requirements will be after using the Bresser dob for a while... unfortunately been clouded out since it's first light 10days ago, hence all this thinking about options 🤣

I've had good success with the Baader Zoom 2.25 Barlow when screwed onto my other 1.25" eyepieces, particularly on the StellaMira, so I'm going to continue to use that with those (DeLites, Panoptic and indeed the Hyperion Zoom itself).

Just before I bought the Bresser, I also bought a pair of 6mm Baader Classic Orthos (BCO), to try in my binoviewer... I haven't had opportunity to do that yet, but did use one the BCOs in the dob to view the Moon and Mars and it gave a very impressive view, so given that and having read @John and others reviews of the Q2.25 Classic Barlow, I decided to give it a go. I'd also read very good reviews about the other BCOs in the range, so decided to pick up a 10mm & 18mm BCO as well to use in the StellaMira.

Just went to order these from @FLO and happened to spot that they have a set... the Baader Classic Eyepiece Set with Q Turret (https://www.firstlightoptics.com/eyepiece-sets/baader-classic-eyepiece-set-with-turret.html) which includes not only the Q Turret Barlow, but also one of each of the BCOs (6mm, 10mm, 18mm) and a 32mm Plossl, along with a rotating turret... I'd read previously that these "sets" don't always make good value, but given that these are all quality items and it includes all the eyepieces I wanted anyway, plus the Barlow... seemed like a reasonable deal. I can return the unopened 6mm BCO from last week and have plenty of options to play with on both the Bresser and StellaMira. Plus, the turret does look like a useful idea when viewing the moon and planets 🤔

I'm still thinking that either the VIP Barlow or (more likely) a Powermate will be acquired in the future, or I may just end up getting the shorter focal length eyepieces when required, but for now, this (along with the Pentax XWs on the way) will give me plenty of options to experiment with for relatively little outlay.

Thanks to all for their thoughts and advice, much appreciated as always 👍

Edited November 16, 2020 by HollyHound

[HollyHound]

On 15/11/2020 at 16:10, Second Time Around said:

However I'm very interested in the reports on both as I have the Hyperion already, and am just about to buy the Q Barlow as soon as FLO have the Baader Classic set back in stock.

My apologies to @Second Time Around... I've just realised that I've in fact ordered the last one of these sets, in stock at @FLO 😬

It does however state that it's back in stock in "1-2 working days" and I noted that the 6mm BCOs were back in stock shortly after I ordered mine 10 days ago, so hopefully available again this week🤞

I will update everyone with observing reports once I have it and can get some time observing with the set.

Edited November 16, 2020 by HollyHound

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

For what its worth, I have used my XW10 in a Meade 2x TeleXtender (telecentric lens like the powermate), and that works very well. However, I since got an XW5 second hand, and it really makes life a lot easier. Switching between the XW10, XW7 and XW5 (and even Delos 6 and 8 mm EPs with parfocaliser rings) is so much easier than having to refocus seriously when inserting a Barlow or telecentric lens. I really use the telecentrics mainly for planetary, lunar and solar imaging

[HollyHound]

1 minute ago, michael.h.f.wilkinson said:

For what its worth, I have used my XW10 in a Meade 2x TeleXtender (telecentric lens like the powermate), and that works very well. However, I since got an XW5 second hand, and it really makes life a lot easier. Switching between the XW10, XW7 and XW5 (and even Delos 6 and 8 mm EPs with parfocaliser rings) is so much easier than having to refocus seriously when inserting a Barlow or telecentric lens. I really use the telecentrics mainly for planetary, lunar and solar imaging

Yes, I'm leaning towards a tele centric lens for serious increase in power at some point in the future for lunar and planetary, but I think it's very likely that I will enjoy the view comfort, ease of use and quality of the Pentax XWs (I did briefly have the XW 40 but had the wrong scope at the time!) so much that will just end up getting the XW5 and possibly the XW3.5 too later.

In the meantime, I want to explore higher powers for lunar/planetary in the new Bresser, so have got some orthos (BCOs) plus a simple (but quality) barlow on the way now, which will give me that to experiment with 👍

[Second Time Around]

38 minutes ago, HollyHound said:

My apologies to @Second Time Around... I've just realised that I've in fact ordered the last one of these sets, in stock at @FLO 😬

It does however state that it's back in stock in "1-2 working days" and I noted that the 6mm BCOs were back in stock shortly after I ordered mine 10 days ago, so hopefully available again this week🤞

I will update everyone with observing reports once I have it and can get some time observing with the set.

No problem as I ordered mine this afternoon!  There were 2 left then.😀

[HollyHound]

2 minutes ago, Second Time Around said:

No problem as I ordered mine this afternoon!  There were 2 left then.😀

Ah brilliant... don’t feel quite so guilty now 🤣

[Louis D]

57 minutes ago, michael.h.f.wilkinson said:

For what its worth, I have used my XW10 in a Meade 2x TeleXtender (telecentric lens like the powermate), and that works very well. However, I since got an XW5 second hand, and it really makes life a lot easier. Switching between the XW10, XW7 and XW5 (and even Delos 6 and 8 mm EPs with parfocaliser rings) is so much easier than having to refocus seriously when inserting a Barlow or telecentric lens. I really use the telecentrics mainly for planetary, lunar and solar imaging

And that's why the Barlow stays in the focuser once it's in there for me.  I don't do this very often, but it can be fun to use lower lower eyepieces at higher power.  Examples would be the 30mm ES-82, 22mm NT4, and 17mm/12mm ES-92s.  Of course, don't try this without using a telecentric magnifier.  I use a TV PBI in a 2" GSO ED 2x Barlow to make a poor man's Powermate.

[HollyHound]

Quick update... had a rethink after ordering this set and decided that whilst it’s a good set of eyepieces, I would in fact be duplicating focal lengths I already have (Pentax XW10, DeLite 18.2mm), plus I’ll retain both 6mm BCOs I already have for binoviewing... so it makes more sense to stick with my plan now to get a good Barlow/Powermate instead to use across the range of eyepieces and then acquire the other shorter focal lengths over time.

@FLO have very quickly responded to my order cancellation this morning, thanks as always 👍 So there’s still one of these Baader sets in stock now, if anyone’s looking.

Edited November 17, 2020 by HollyHound

[jetstream]

22 hours ago, John said:

The Tele Vue Big barlow is good for newtonians

I think the glass is top notch but the length and high weight of this combo might (can) cause de collimation through focuser flex or tube/truss cage issues, depending on the design and how far racked out you are.

 

[HollyHound]

After fiddling with my Hyperion 2.25x barlow the other night with the XWs and having issues with the focus changing significantly and being fiddly to attach/remove in the dark, I've decided to go with shorter focal length eyepieces and look to get a Powermate at some point (as I understand they don't mess with the focal point as much). The Hyperion barlow still works well on the 8-24mm zoom though 👍

So I've added the TeleVue Delite 5mm initially, which should work well in all scopes (as it's quite light)... the Bresser 10", StellaMira, Mak 127 (just) and C5 🤞

Edited November 20, 2020 by HollyHound

[John]

Delites look delightful

I'd like to try one someday. I tend to only use my barlow with my zoom as well and use either fixed short focal length eyepiece or the specialised 2-4 Nagler zoom.

Good to have options at high power

 

[HollyHound]

4 minutes ago, John said:

Delites look delightful

I'd like to try one someday. I tend to only use my barlow with my zoom as well and use either fixed short focal length eyepiece or the specialised 2-4 Nagler zoom.

Good to have options at high power

 

I've always had good results with DeLite 13mm and 18.2mm and they work superbly in the refractor and also got best ever of M42 with the 13mm in the Bresser two weeks ago (pre Pentax arriving). 

Yes, the Hyperion 2.25 zoom barlow works perfectly with the Hyperion zoom, unsurprising I suppose as they're designed to work together. Good to hear you have the same results with your zoom. I did (briefly) have the Nagler 3-6mm, but although it was a lovely eyepiece, I just didn't "bond" with it's form factor... maybe it was FoV, eye relief but never felt right too me, hence why these new eyepieces.

Although they are slightly heavier than the DeLites (which may or may not be a factor balancing the StellaMira), I still think I can see the XW5 and XW3.5 in my future, as I am loving their comfort and relaxed viewing with the dob. I also quickly tried the XW10 and XW7 in Mak127 last night on the planets and was impressed with the easy viewing on those too... something about these XWs just seems to "work" for me 👍

[HollyHound]

14 minutes ago, John said:

I'd like to try one someday

Perhaps when all this lockdown is over properly, we can arrange something (you're only just down the M5 from me), as it would be good to get your comparison between the Pentax XW5 and DeLite 5mm 🤔

Edited November 20, 2020 by HollyHound

[John]

9 minutes ago, HollyHound said:

Perhaps when all this lockdown is over properly, we can arrange something (you're only just down the M5 from me), as it would be good to get your comparison between the Pentax XW5 and DeLite 5mm 🤔

That would be fun !

I've owned the 3-6mm Nagler zoom twice in the past and also found that I didn't "bond" with it either. A couple of years ago I picked up the 2-4mm version and found that I got on much better with it. Odd really because the two are very, very similar to use

The 2-4mm does have half mm click stops rather than 1mm though but that's not a showstopping difference.

 

[HollyHound]

4 minutes ago, John said:

I've owned the 3-6mm Nagler zoom twice in the past and also found that I didn't "bond" with it either. A couple of years ago I picked up the 2-4mm version and found that I got on much better with it. Odd really because the two are very, very similar to use

Odd isn't it, how some just work for some but not for others 😬