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Pentax XW 10mm with Barlow vs Pentax XW 5mm


HollyHound

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Hi,

Seen a separate thread looking for choice of 5mm eyepiece and I'm in a similar decision process right now too. However, I've just ordered a Pentax XW 10mm (along with XW 7mm and XW 30mm), which I intend to use in the Bresser 10" dob.

My question is would it be as effective to just barlow the XW 10mm, using my Baader Hyperion 2.25x Barlow (giving a little less than 5mm, but close enough) or would having the separate XW 5mm give me anything better ? I'm thinking that if the view with the Barlow would be almost as good, then might as well save some money, but not sure if that's a valid assumption 🤔

Thanks

Gary

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I use a 10mm XW and 2x focal extender with my dob instead of a 5mm and can see no obvious impact on image quality. The only reason I have at the moment to buy a 5XW is if I decide to get one for my solar scope as it doesn't have enough focuser travel for the XW + focal extender combination. 

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3 minutes ago, Ricochet said:

I use a 10mm XW and 2x focal extender with my dob instead of a 5mm and can see no obvious impact on image quality. The only reason I have at the moment to buy a 5XW is if I decide to get one for my solar scope as it doesn't have enough focuser travel for the XW + focal extender combination. 

That's what I was hoping would be the case... I do use this Barlow with my DeLites (18.2mm and 13mm) on the StellaMira quite regularly and don't notice any degradation of image quality, but wasn't sure if there would be an issue once you get right down to the very short focal lengths (5mm etc) and also that there's no optical reason why a dob/newtonian would suffer either... thanks👍

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I will have to try using my 2.25x Baader barlow with my XW 10mm and find out how it compares with my 5mm XW :smiley:

I suspect the result will be pretty close as has been said.

I've been screwing the removable lens section of the barlow directly into the barrel of a 4mm HD ortho that I have which gives a 1.3x amplification (3.1mm effective FL approx) and the results have been rather impressive with the bonus of making the short ortho eye relief a bit longer. Good glass in the Baader 2.25x barlow.

 

Edited by John
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I think the Baader 2.25x Hyperion Barlow that the OP has is different to the 2.25/1.3x Baader Q Barlow that John has. 

However I'm very interested in the reports on both as I have the Hyperion already, and am just about to buy the Q Barlow as soon as FLO have the Baader Classic set back in stock.

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49 minutes ago, Second Time Around said:

I think the Baader 2.25x Hyperion Barlow that the OP has is different to the 2.25/1.3x Baader Q Barlow that John has. 

However I'm very interested in the reports on both as I have the Hyperion already, and am just about to buy the Q Barlow as soon as FLO have the Baader Classic set back in stock.

Another option is the the Baader VIP barlow- more expensive but well worth it. This barlow has no negatives optically- no reduction in transmission, contrast or sharpness. On the contrary it can allow better views ie Suiters wobbly stack idea.

Edited by jetstream
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50 minutes ago, Second Time Around said:

I think the Baader 2.25x Hyperion Barlow that the OP has is different to the 2.25/1.3x Baader Q Barlow that John has. 

However I'm very interested in the reports on both as I have the Hyperion already, and am just about to buy the Q Barlow as soon as FLO have the Baader Classic set back in stock.

Mine is the one that was sold with the Hyperion Zoom as a bundle, so might be different indeed.

I am now actively looking at Barlow options, and so any of these suggestions are good thanks to all 👍

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3 minutes ago, jetstream said:

Another option the the Baader VIP barlow- more expensive but well worth it. This barlow has no negatives optically- no reduction in transmission, contrast or sharpness. On the contrary it can allow better view ie Suiters wobbly stack idea.

I’ll look out for this. I should really have a decent Barlow, beyond the 2.25x one that came with the Hyperion Zoom. Thank you 👍

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30 minutes ago, HollyHound said:

Mine is the one that was sold with the Hyperion Zoom as a bundle, so might be different indeed.

I am now actively looking at Barlow options, and so any of these suggestions are good thanks to all 👍

Yes - the Q-Turret and the Zoom barlow are different. Sorry about my mix up :smiley:

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3 minutes ago, John said:

Yes - the Q-Turret and the Zoom barlow are different. Sorry about my mix up :smiley:

No worries. Actually it's set me looking at barlow options now... quite interested in this VIP Barlow and also having a look TeleVue PowerMates... more decisions 🤣

The important thing I've established is that there's no reason why a good barlow should affect the view too much and realistically I can barlow the eyepieces I have and others incoming first to see what magnifications I require and then (maybe) look to expand into these shorter focal lengths sometime if required 🤔

Thanks again to all for suggestions and advice 👍

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24 minutes ago, HollyHound said:

No worries. Actually it's set me looking at barlow options now... quite interested in this VIP Barlow and also having a look TeleVue PowerMates... more decisions 🤣

The important thing I've established is that there's no reason why a good barlow should affect the view too much and realistically I can barlow the eyepieces I have and others incoming first to see what magnifications I require and then (maybe) look to expand into these shorter focal lengths sometime if required 🤔

Thanks again to all for suggestions and advice 👍

I spent ages looking into barrows/powermates. Bought a nice barlow and it was good.

I still ended up buying the shorter focal lengths as well. Sometimes the itching not worth fighting 😊

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I've owned a few Powermate's and a Baader VIP at some time or other. Both excellent. Slightly different concept from barlows, the Powermates / Telextender / Focal Extenders - they have little or no effect on the focal position and eye relief. Also they tend not to vignette longer focal length eyepieces whereas some of the barlows can.

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Dantooine said:

I spent ages looking into barrows/powermates. Bought a nice barlow and it was good.

I still ended up buying the shorter focal lengths as well. Sometimes the itching not worth fighting 😊

Oh I fully intend to not even bother resisting 🤣

Went onto @FLO website yesterday intending to get the Pentax XW 30mm and before I knew it, ended up with XW 10mm and 7mm in the basket too... drawing the line at the 5mm for now though😬

Slightly regretting selling the XW 40mm few months back, but it wasn’t being used and I didn’t have this dob then... but I think the 30mm works out better for both this and the StellaMira 👍

Edited by HollyHound
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3 minutes ago, HollyHound said:

Oh I fully intend to not even bother resisting 🤣

Went onto @FLO website yesterday intending to get the Pentax XW 30mm and before I knew it, ended up with XW 10mm and 7mm in the basket too... drawing the line at the 5mm for now though😬

And why not.. nothing seems to stop me looking for the next fix 😉

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50 minutes ago, Dantooine said:

And why not.. nothing seems to stop me looking for the next fix 😉

We have a simple arrangement at home... I have telescopes etc and my partner has horses... if you think astronomy can be expensive, try horses 😬🤣

Edited by HollyHound
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2 hours ago, John said:

I've owned a few Powermate's and a Baader VIP at some time or other. Both excellent. Slightly different concept from barlows, the Powermates / Telextender / Focal Extenders - they have little or no effect on the focal position and eye relief. Also they tend not to vignette longer focal length eyepieces whereas some of the barlows can.

I've been looking at this Baader VIP Barlow, as it looks like a good quality and flexible piece of kit... I'd be looking to use this with the Pentax XW 10mm and 7mm and possibly the DeLite 13mm and 18.2mm. Can't see myself using it with any 2" eyepieces, as they're all longer focal lengths and I have eyepieces covering those ranges already.

My only concern/question is whether I could potentially run into focus issues with this on my Bresser 10" dob, as I've read about possibly not having enough in/out focus travel... did you run into this issue on your dob ?

I do currently have to use the supplied focus extender tube (37mm optical length), which then allows focussing for all my current 1.25" and 2" eyepieces. I think there is sufficient flexibility in the VIP Barlow to allow me to find something that will work, so willing to risk it and give it a go. I can always return if doesn't work 🤔

Edited by HollyHound
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It was quite a while ago that I had the VIP Barlow and I used it pretty much exclusively with the Leica ASPH zoom. I did get it to focus OK with my 12 inch dob but the Orion Optics scopes have a focus point well outside the tube wall so most things do come to focus. Not sure about the Bresser dobs ?

I used a different extension setup than the standard one that comes with the VIP barlow (a pair of 15mm extension tubes) and that will have affected the focus position as well.

That's the thing about the VIP barlow, it's (as Baader say) a modular system with many options.

@Stu did a report on it a few years back:

 

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12 minutes ago, John said:

It was quite a while ago that I had the VIP Barlow and I used it pretty much exclusively with the Leica ASPH zoom. I did get it to focus OK with my 12 inch dob but the Orion Optics scopes have a focus point well outside the tube wall so most things do come to focus. Not sure about the Bresser dobs ?

I used a different extension setup than the standard one that comes with the VIP barlow (a pair of 15mm extension tubes) and that will have affected the focus position as well.

That's the thing about the VIP barlow, it's (as Baader say) a modular system with many options.

That’s good to know thanks 👍 I’m still considering options for now, but may give this one a go, at least for the dob and possibly the StellaMira, can’t really see much need for barlow in the Mak.

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I've used both the Hyperion and Q Turret barlows, and still have the Hyperion now. Both are optically excellent. I think the main difference is in the build quality..the Hyperion uses T threads and provides a very secure connection. The Q Turret uses a set screw to retain it and doesnt feel as solid - although it works fine. And if you're using just the nosepiece part it threads into your eyepiece anyway.

I don't think you'll go far wrong with either optically, but if your funds run to the VIP, then buy the best, buy once!😊

Dave

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4 minutes ago, Don Pensack said:

One note about the VIP Barlow: it can be used in 1.25" or 2" focusers, but it only accepts 1.25" eyepieces.

Hi Don,

Thanks, I wasn't aware of that. I'm not sure I'd want to use it with 2" eyepieces but the option might be nice. I'm still researching and considering all options... the TeleVue Big Barlow and Powermate(s) are also under consideration now too, but I think the VIP still looks like what I need for now 👍

Cheers

Gary

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The Tele Vue Big barlow is good for newtonians but I understand will not work well in many 2 inch diagonals due to it's length.

The Powermates that I've owned have been pretty much flawless in their operation. You just don't know that they are in the light path, apart from the amplified magnification.

The stack can get long though !

 

bigeps.jpg

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2 minutes ago, John said:

The Tele Vue Big barlow is good for newtonians but I understand will not work well in many 2 inch diagonals due to it's length.

The Powermates that I've owned have been pretty much flawless in their operation. You just don't know that they are in the light path, apart from the amplified magnification.

The stack can get long though !

Wow, that's a long setup 😮

I'm actually leaning towards only looking at a Barlow/Powermate to use in the dob, so the Big Barlow could be fine, although these Powermates do get a lot of respect optically 🤔

The StellaMira 80mm f/10 I use only manually on the ScopeTech and whilst it's a lovely mount, balance is critical, so I'm sticking to lightweight (and closely matched weight) eyepieces in that for now and I can use the Hyperion Zoom Barlow if needed. Mainly use the DeLites 13mm & 18.2mm, Panoptic 24mm, TMB 8mm and (occasionally) the Aero 35mm. I did use the Nagler 3-6 Zoom, but sold it as unfortunately I just wasn't getting on with it (eye relief, FoV, prone to dewing).

Decisions, decisions 🤣

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15 minutes ago, HollyHound said:

The StellaMira 80mm f/10 I use only manually on the ScopeTech and whilst it's a lovely mount, balance is critical, so I'm sticking to lightweight (and closely matched weight) eyepieces in that for now and I can use the Hyperion Zoom Barlow if needed. Mainly use the DeLites 13mm & 18.2mm, Panoptic 24mm, TMB 8mm and (occasionally) the Aero 35mm. I did use the Nagler 3-6 Zoom, but sold it as unfortunately I just wasn't getting on with it (eye relief, FoV, prone to dewing)...

 

I take a similar line with my refractors. I have a 1.25 inch eyepiece set which are mostly used in those. The 82-100 degree monsters are what I use in my 12 inch dobsonian.

 

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