Fate of universe

[wulfrun]

2 minutes ago, vlaiv said:

That is actually very profound statement.

When we think of the time, we think of it as passing at exact intervals - always "flowing" at the same pace. But that is of course not true. Even without relativity, we can only say that things happen concurrently - like two physical processes happening at the same time - clock hand moving one second (smallest measurable interval) and something else happening. Almost like in steps. But do steps "last" the same amount of "time" or is only assumption that we can make - events happen in sequence - they are ordered - we only know what is before and after and that divides events to past and future with respect to certain event.

But then steps in relativity and we find out that order of events is not guaranteed. One observer can measure event A to happen before event B and another observer can measure opposite - event B happening before event A. So even our sequence is no longer valid assumption - only thing that is left is fact that everything did not happen at once

 

Almost. There is also causality; two observers must agree on the order of events if one causes the other. For an example, every observer must agree that your father was born before you were.

[Xilman]

1 hour ago, vlaiv said:

2. Disease - can you name any disease that attacks single cell organisms like amoebae?

Read up on bacteriophages, viruses which infect single-celled organisms.

Read up on transposable elements and selfish genetic elements which are parasitic on DNA, something which is but only a tiny component of an amoeba. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transposable_element and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selfish_genetic_element are good starting points.

 

Edited November 12, 2020 by Xilman

[Sunshine]

The fate of the universe will be its heat death, it will be a while longer so you need not worry. There's still loads of heat within it.

Edited November 12, 2020 by Sunshine

[vlaiv]

5 minutes ago, Xilman said:

Read up on bacteriophages, viruses which infect single-celled organisms.

Read up on transposable elements and selfish genetic elements which are parasitic on DNA, something which is but only a tiny component of an amoeba. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transposable_element and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selfish_genetic_element are good starting points.

 

Well, my point was that multi cell organisms suffer much broader spectrum of illnesses, so life does not get more resistant in principle as evolution takes place.

[Sunshine]

The fate of the universe will be its heat death, in about this many years....

10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000...years squared, it will be a while longer so you need not worry.

[ollypenrice]

On 11/11/2020 at 23:22, wuthton said:

I'm going to politely disagree. Natural selection by it's very nature means that the next generation will be faster, more intelligent and disease resistant with better senses of sight, smell and taste. The direct opposite of the second law. 

What really happens in evolution is, I think, that species and environment evolve together. There are a few species in which there are no males and so no genetic mixing. This has the advantage of making perfect copies but it has the disadvantage that there are no mutants who might be better adapted to a change in the environment. (The female is stimulated by the male of a similar species but his genes are not incorporated into those of the offspring.) If their environment changes these species will be doomed.

In an environment in which running or flying faster confers survival advantage it will evolve. But, equally, an opposite evolution may appear in different environments. Flight in birds comes at a high price: they must be incredibly light and have a high power to weight ratio with small fuel tanks. That's why, in suitable environments, many bird species discard it because the price is too high. They can do better without it. If we took your hierarchical view we would have to regard the ostrich as a degenerate species and the seagull as a higher one. This would surely be unsound. To do this would simply be to invent, in our own image, evolutionary virtues and vices and apply them out of context.  

The notion of an evolutionary hierarchy partially accounts for the extreme hostility with which Darwin's ideas were met. They carried with them the implication that the 'lower orders' of humanity might evolve to equal the 'higher.' They were seen as enabling 'upward mobility' to the consternation of those who judged themselves to be at the top. In truth the hierarchy is spurious.

Olly

Edit: I've ignored female preference in all this. Why does the peacock wear a fancy tail? Because his wife told him to.

And then there's this:  😄

https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=10217245377757853&set=a.1235683743581

Edited November 25, 2020 by ollypenrice

[Xilman]

1 hour ago, ollypenrice said:

What is really happens in evolution is, I think, that species and environment evolve together. There are a few species in which there are no males and so no genetic mixing. This has the advantage of making perfect copies but it has the disadvantage that there are no mutants who might be better adapted to a change in the environment.

Indeed species and environment evolve together.

However, the vast majority of species reproduce asexually, not just a few. Think bacteria, amoebae and yeasts for a start. Garlic, although technically a flowering plant, hardly ever flowers, let alone produce viable seed. If you want an animal example, try tapeworms.

[ollypenrice]

2 minutes ago, Xilman said:

Indeed species and environment evolve together.

However, the vast majority of species reproduce asexually, not just a few. Think bacteria, amoebae and yeasts for a start. Garlic, although technically a flowering plant, hardly ever flowers, let alone produce viable seed. If you want an animal example, try tapeworms.

Yes, I was thinking of vertebrates.

Olly

[Xilman]

This is getting really far off-topic ...

[Mr Spock]

As I didn't see the beginning of the universe and won't see the end, I prefer to concentrate on the now 😜

 

[Roy Challen]

14 hours ago, wuthton said:

I'm going to politely disagree. Natural selection by it's very nature means that the next generation will be faster, more intelligent and disease resistant with better senses of sight, smell and taste. The direct opposite of the second law. 

This definitely doesn't apply to humans.

[ollypenrice]

Of course the entire conversation is predicated on the tensed theory of time being correct. This is the theory of time in which there is a past, a moving present and a future. The theory is not without its flaws since people separated by cosmological distances cannot agree on when it is 'now.' The simultaneity problem. But the worst thing about the theory is that we tend not to think of it as a theory at all. That's all it is, though.

Spooky!

Olly

[andrew s]

6 minutes ago, ollypenrice said:

Of course the entire conversation is predicated on the tensed theory of time being correct. This is the theory of time in which there is a past, a moving present and a future. The theory is not without its flaws since people separated by cosmological distances cannot agree on when it is 'now.' The simultaneity problem. But the worst thing about the theory is that we tend not to think of it as a theory at all. That's all it is, though.

Spooky!

Olly

Science uses coordinate time, just lables on one of the four dimensions of space-time amongst others. There are books on the relationship between the science view of time and our subjective sense of time but no consensus. There is no simple relation.

Regards Andrew 

[Louis D]

17 hours ago, wuthton said:

Darwin's evolution where with the passing of time life evolves into something better and improved

See the opening of Idiocracy for where humanity is likely headed. 🤣

 

[Karen Johnson]

Can I just say, whilst I probably understand about 10% of this post, it’s been absolutely fascinating to read and brightened up a dull afternoon.  Just a shame the originator never did share what spooked him so much.

[ash73]

Roger Penrose and his Escher figures creates the interesting possibility to send a message to the next universe...

 

 

[Viktiste]

On 11/11/2020 at 22:40, ollypenrice said:

Humanity is a transient little thing that popped into existence a few seconds ago and will pop out of existence in a few seconds to come.

And we happen to live in the few nanoseconds where we we start to understand any of this (or so we at least think). 

On 11/11/2020 at 22:40, ollypenrice said:

What is so terrible about non-existence? Did anybody worry about it before existence came into being?

Well....  it is kind of a disturbing thought, even though it is most probably a fact. Maybe it has something to do with our strong will to survive. Most people, if facing a life threatening situation don't just give up and think 'Oh well, what is so terrible about non-existence' and give up...

[Alien 13]

I am confused as to why the Universe could end when it is already minute in size and all we see is a holographic projection..

Alan

[Stu]

On 12/11/2020 at 10:55, Xilman said:

This is getting really far off-topic ...

If I’m completely honest, I’ve still no idea what the original topic was!

The OP seems decided uninterested in it for some reason.

[saac]

5 minutes ago, Alien 13 said:

I am confused as to why the Universe could end when it is already minute in size and all we see is a holographic projection..

Alan

Alan, I will have a pint of whatever you have been smoking  

Jim 

[Mr Spock]

You think that's air you're breathing?

[vlaiv]

Just an idea - universe will not end.

If we accept that "there was no before big bang" in sense that "time came into being together with everything else in the big bang" so it's pointless to talk about before the big bang - similarly there will be no "after universe" - as such, if there is no after and it is pointless to talk about after - universe will not end.

Very similar to falling into a black hole, isn't it?

Nothing can really fall into a black hole - at least as far as we are concerned. If something was on a trajectory tending to cross event horizon - it will never reach it as far as we are concerned - as we will witness, it's time will run ever so slower and it's speed will decrease asymptotically. 

In fact it will tend to fade out of existence as all the light that bounces of it will be slowly red shifted and after a while we will stop seeing it in visible light and only detect its echo via radio waves.

How about that?

[saac]

I introduced my Higher Physics class to "The Pale Blue Dot" photograph this week together with Sagan's very poetic speech.  It is usually the first paragraph that is quoted widely but here's the full text. I couldn't help but wonder what Sagan would have thought in the context of the damage we have caused to our precious Pale Blue Dot - now becoming self evident through species extinction levels global warming and potentially the present pandemic.   I still find his speech  one of the most powerful pieces of writing when taken with the photograph of the Pale Blue Dot.  God help us , as Sagan says "there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves ".

Sagan's Pal Blue Dot Speech

Jim

Edited November 19, 2020 by saac

[Tiny Clanger]

On 11/11/2020 at 02:18, Atlas629 said:

A few years ago I learned the fate of the universe, and my exact place in it - hit me pretty hard. Anyone else share similar experiences?

 

On 11/11/2020 at 20:21, johninderby said:

Hmmmmmm..............🤔

This thread made me think of this. 😁

Me too 😀  In answer to the OP, yes, Zaphod Beeblebrox , President of the Galaxy had the exact same experience in the Total Perspective Vortex . In case you are unfamiliar with the sorely missed  philosophical colossus Douglas N Adams, here is the relevant passage :

 

 

[Alien 13]

27 minutes ago, saac said:

Alan, I will have a pint of whatever you have been smoking  

Jim 

I thought that the Universe being infinitely small was still a viable theory..as is holographic projection.

Alan