Best budget scope for a 5 year old

[VaderAG]

My 5 year old is interested in looking at the sky and we've been spotting Jupiter and Saturn over the past few weeks. Would be great to see Saturn's rings
 My parents looking for Xmas present ideas and telescope seems a good idea

Budget maybe £60ish but I can top up a bit, but would like something that will last a few years and grow a bit with her

Any ideas?

Been recommended  https://www.firstlightoptics.com/beginner-telescopes/skywatcher-heritage-76-mini-dobsonian.html 

but my mum also spotted a national geographic one reduced at Robert Dyas which seems too cheap to be any good for much

Ultimately would like to get something to keep and captute interest and be able to see enough to make it worthwhile over my binoculars

 

 

 

[Cornelius Varley]

Hello and welcome to SGL. The Heritage 76 mini dob is an excellent choice for a young astronomer. Forget the National Geographic telescope, the two cheaper ones on the Robert Dyas website look more like overpriced toys.

[RT65CB-SWL]

Hi @VaderAG & daughter and welcome to SGL. 

As much as I like National Geographic, (the magazine that is), I would never purchase anything they do optical.

If you can stretch you budget to one of the SkyWatcher Heritage series, (i.e. 130 or 150), then you both will have a scope that will be far superior and rewarding. 

[laudropb]

Hello and welcome to the SGL. The mini DOB would be a good choice. I would stay away from the  national Geographic scopes.

[jock1958]

Warm welcome to SGL. 

Like to echo what’s been advised and although the Heritage 76 has good reviews I doubt you will see the rings of Saturn.
Like @Philip R says for a bit more the Heritage 130 or 150 will show a lot more! 

If you haven’t already have a look on the FLO website for feedback on the Heritage range, also there’s lots on here as well.

Cheers and all the best. 

[VaderAG]

Thanks all for the suggestions, will take a look

@Philip R you think the 130 or 150 are worth the extra over the 76? I don't mind spending more for more possibilities, but what I don't want it to overcomplicate either so my daughter is overwhelmed!

 

Thanks!

[Tiny Clanger]

I'd say they are all good suggestions, but given the age of the child , best to stick to one of the smaller 'heritage' scopes, I own the 150, and it would be a big heavy lump for a small child to deal with .  If the little 'un is going to feel it is 'their' scope, not something that needs to be carried around, set up and cared for by a parent which the child only gets to look through for a moment, then an adult has to adjust it again, best go for the 75, it appears small (and cheap) enough to not be precious about.

Ah, your post has appeared just as I'm (slowly) typing ! Yes, I think that whilst the 130/150 are indisputably better scopes , for such a small child they are probably overdoing it.

[DaveL59]

Funnily enough I do have a NatGeo 76/350 dob-a-like but I only paid £10 for it second hand. They do work but need some effort to improve things like the focuser action and get collimation as true as you can. You cannot easily adjust the primary mirror as it is fixed to the plastic end cap, only the secondary adjusts. The supplied eyepieces are not good so you'd also have to get better ones, adding to the cost. That does significantly improve the view and then it isn't as bad as you'd think 🙂 That said, planets will be very small on a 76 as you can't push the mag too far.

While I'm sure SW130 tabletop dob will give better views, there are alternatives like the Celestron LT70AZ Starsense explorer, which for £135 adds the ability to use a smartphone to find objects in the sky via an app that analyses what the phone sees and gives directions to targets you'd like to observe. Like all cheaper scopes it has its limitations, wobbly mount and less than ideal erecting diagonal etc, but it is light, easy to set up and can actually give quite nice views with a good star diagonal and eyepieces. If she develops an interest to look further than the planets and moon then this may help her find other objects to wonder at where the manual dob type setups could just be frustration especially in a light polluted sky.

Edited November 8, 2020 by DaveL59

[VaderAG]

44 minutes ago, jock1958 said:

Warm welcome to SGL. 

Like to echo what’s been advised and although the Heritage 76 has good reviews I doubt you will see the rings of Saturn.
Like @Philip R says for a bit more the Heritage 130 or 150 will show a lot more! 

If you haven’t already have a look on the FLO website for feedback on the Heritage range, also there’s lots on here as well.

Cheers and all the best. 

Thanks for the FLO suggestion. They have a beginner telescope section and seems to tally with suggestions here.

One they mention which isn't mentioned above is the Sky Watcher Mercury 707 - is there any reason to go for the dobsonians over this at this price point?

[Louis D]

I used one of those 76 Dobs at a star party.  It's pretty close to impossible to aim it at a target while perched on a table due to it super short length.  I've been observing long enough that I was able to aim it by "shooting from the hip" so to speak.  However, I wouldn't expect a beginner to be able to do this.  In the central 25% of the field, the view of Jupiter was enough to see banding once it was on target.  It's not a great view since it uses a spherical mirror instead of a parabolic mirror.  As alluded to above, these show up in thrift stores for about $10 to $20 after Christmas because they tend to be underwhelming.  That's where the advanced observer at the star party had picked up his two examples.  He puts them out on a low table for kids to try and use.  However, none of kids or their parents could get anything in the field of view until I came along.  They were astounded I could get them to work when they had had no luck with them.

[Louis D]

3 minutes ago, VaderAG said:

Thanks for the FLO suggestion. They have a beginner telescope section and seems to tally with suggestions here.

One they mention which isn't mentioned above is the Sky Watcher Mercury 707 - is there any reason to go for the dobsonians over this at this price point?

70mm achromatic refractors don't have much light gathering power and suffer from chromatic aberrations.  So, they tend to be a bit disappointing to look through.  That, and that mount isn't all that great.  It tends to be wobbly and difficult to track objects with.

That's not to say all 70mm refractors aren't great.  I love my 72mm ED refractor for wide field views.  Its short focal length and low chromatic error make viewing large swaths of the sky very enjoyable.  However, I have it mounted on a very capable alt-az mount that I purchased separately.

[RT65CB-SWL]

9 minutes ago, VaderAG said:

Thanks for the FLO suggestion. They have a beginner telescope section and seems to tally with suggestions here.

One they mention which isn't mentioned above is the Sky Watcher Mercury 707 - is there any reason to go for the dobsonians over this at this price point?

To give you an idea of what things will look like, have a look at... http://astronomy.tools/calculators/field_of_view/ - just fill in the boxes.

[Zermelo]

Welcome.

Also, bear in mind that - in spite of all the planet "action" at the moment - Jupiter and Saturn are not especially well placed this year. They are quite close to the horizon, so the atmosphere affects the view detrimentally. Mars is much better placed at the moment, but even after its close approach it's not easy to see a lot of detail in a beginner scope.
Planets generally need higher magnifications, which among other considerations will be limited by (a) the size of the scope's objective (e.g. mirror diameter) and (b) the seeing conditions (very variable, if you're UK based). It's partly about managing expectations. Having said that, my first view of Saturn as a child was through an inch-and-a-half refractor, and was enough to hook me.

Good luck with whatever you decide to go with.

[VaderAG]

5 minutes ago, Philip R said:

To give you an idea of what things will look like, have a look at... http://astronomy.tools/calculators/field_of_view/ - just fill in the boxes.

This is confusing me! I selected the heritage 100 and put Jupiter / Saturn / Moon and they're smaller than I see with the naked eye! Must be missing something but being mithered by kids and kittens right now so will look in a bit

[Tiny Clanger]

As an ex primary school  teacher ( I once had an entire school's worth of 5-10 year olds troop past some binoculars on a tripod to see a partial solar eclipse which was being projected onto a sheet of white card held by a teaching assistant ) I know that attention spans can be short. You want to encourage the child , not frustrate them, and whilst spending more money will  get a better instrument, it will be an adult's astronomy tool, not a gift a child will feel they own . (No, I'm not still bitter about the Meccano set and toy , sorry model railway my dad rushed out to buy when my existence was announced, but never let me touch even when I was old enough. No, honestly .... )

Had you considered binoculars instead ? OK, they won't show the rings of Saturn, or any surface markings on Mars, but a lightweight pair at a similar price point to the small heritage 'scope will be smaller, easier to carry and deal with, will give good views of the Moon and some impressive easy to find stuff like the Pleiades and Orion Nebula, and  can be used for bird watching, close ups of the squirrels in the park, looking through the wrong end to see tiny views, spying on neighbours,, and other fun activities . Ideally mount them on a tripod so you can line them up on an object for the child to start off with, and so their arms don't tire, cheap  photo tripods tend to be quite short , but so do the under 7's , so that will just inconvenience you 😀 .

Another advantage bin.s have over telescopes is that binoculars and tripods are more common purchases and their manufacture in higher numbers keeps the prices down. I just looked on amazon, specifying 4* and above binoculars in the £15 to £50 price range by Celestron, Nikon or Olympus ( I'm leery of trusting unknown name brands on this kind of thing) and have 117 results. The general suggestion for adults is that you need at least 10x50 binoculars (10 is the magnification, 50 is the diameter of the front lens in mm) but those would (again) probably be OTT for a 5 year old. I used a pair of 8x30 bin.s before getting a scope,  and the extra light collecting ability over what your eyes can manage unaided is impressive for, say, the Moon if you've not looked through a telescope . To back up my suggestion, I'll mention that in many of his books, Sir Patrick Moore strongly recommended binoculars for beginners in astronomy. 

A nice cheap pair of binoculars and an age appropriate space book (usborne have done some good ones) might be your answer. Whatever you go for, don't forget to really emphasize the rule that you never point the telescope/binoculars at the Sun . 

Heather

[Peter Drew]

Naked eye views are deceptive, can you see the craters on the Moon without a telescope?, almost any telescope will.  You cannot see planets with the naked eye, only the light from them, they need to be magnified by a telescope to see the actual planet disc.   Using a telescope is hard enough for an absolute beginner let alone a 5 year old, however keen, much other than the Moon will take adult intervention.  Well worth the effort to nurture the interest though.     🙂  

[DaveL59]

For the 70/700 refractors I get this with that site

Bear in mind that your eye will have the area in the circle as it's entire view when looking into the eyepiece but the reality is that it won't fill the view being as the planets are a long way away and scopes at the budget end have many limitations. Even with more expensive equipment the planets will still seem small but you can make out more detail as you push the magnification further. At the lower end of the price range you will be able to see it has rings, for example which by eye you cannot, even in 10x binoculars you may see it is oval but not discern the rings. You may even spot the bright pin-pricks near the planet which are its larger moons and even on occasion note the dark dot on the planet surface as its moon casts a shadow when it transits. 

I think a lot will depend on the expectations you and your daughter have and setting those before you buy something is a good idea to avoid disappointment. There is a thread on here "What can I expect to see" which would be well worth a read before deciding. How much to spend on a starting setup is always difficult to judge. At the end of the day this may be a very brief hobby for her, or the start of a long developing interest at which point investing in better equipment may well be worthwhile, won't know till you've got something and see how things go 🙂 

Edited November 8, 2020 by DaveL59

[VaderAG]

14 minutes ago, Tiny Clanger said:

As an ex primary school  teacher ( I once had an entire school's worth of 5-10 year olds troop past some binoculars on a tripod to see a partial solar eclipse which was being projected onto a sheet of white card held by a teaching assistant ) I know that attention spans can be short. You want to encourage the child , not frustrate them, and whilst spending more money will  get a better instrument, it will be an adult's astronomy tool, not a gift a child will feel they own . (No, I'm not still bitter about the Meccano set and toy , sorry model railway my dad rushed out to buy when my existence was announced, but never let me touch even when I was old enough. No, honestly .... )

Had you considered binoculars instead ? OK, they won't show the rings of Saturn, or any surface markings on Mars, but a lightweight pair at a similar price point to the small heritage 'scope will be smaller, easier to carry and deal with, will give good views of the Moon and some impressive easy to find stuff like the Pleiades and Orion Nebula, and  can be used for bird watching, close ups of the squirrels in the park, looking through the wrong end to see tiny views, spying on neighbours,, and other fun activities . Ideally mount them on a tripod so you can line them up on an object for the child to start off with, and so their arms don't tire, cheap  photo tripods tend to be quite short , but so do the under 7's , so that will just inconvenience you 😀 .

Another advantage bin.s have over telescopes is that binoculars and tripods are more common purchases and their manufacture in higher numbers keeps the prices down. I just looked on amazon, specifying 4* and above binoculars in the £15 to £50 price range by Celestron, Nikon or Olympus ( I'm leery of trusting unknown name brands on this kind of thing) and have 117 results. The general suggestion for adults is that you need at least 10x50 binoculars (10 is the magnification, 50 is the diameter of the front lens in mm) but those would (again) probably be OTT for a 5 year old. I used a pair of 8x30 bin.s before getting a scope,  and the extra light collecting ability over what your eyes can manage unaided is impressive for, say, the Moon if you've not looked through a telescope . To back up my suggestion, I'll mention that in many of his books, Sir Patrick Moore strongly recommended binoculars for beginners in astronomy. 

A nice cheap pair of binoculars and an age appropriate space book (usborne have done some good ones) might be your answer. Whatever you go for, don't forget to really emphasize the rule that you never point the telescope/binoculars at the Sun . 

Heather

I actually have some binoculars but they're too big for the kids eyes

[jock1958]

58 minutes ago, VaderAG said:

Thanks for the FLO suggestion. They have a beginner telescope section and seems to tally with suggestions here.

One they mention which isn't mentioned above is the Sky Watcher Mercury 707 - is there any reason to go for the dobsonians over this at this price point?

Sorry cant comment on the Sky Watcher Mercury 707 having never owned one but arguably "the best bang for your buck" is a Dobsonian, you have the aperture (Light Gathering Ability), ease of use and low relative cost.

Have a read of a brilliant SGL thread below by @Qualia Rob, funnily enough I bought a refractor off him a few years ago, he tried to persuade me to get a Dob for the very reasons I described above but I had it in my mind to go down the refractor route.

 

 

Edited November 8, 2020 by jock1958

[M40]

I am going to echo a little of what Tiny Clanger said, it's got to be easy to use, something that shows the moon clearly is your target at the moment. When I let my 8 year old grandson loose on my dobsonian telescope he was unscrewing eyepieces rather than the eyepiece holder so literally, the simpler the better at the moment, something that's quick to set up and quick to put away. Enjoy

[Peter Drew]

I have reservations about binoculars for a 5 year old, they rarely have the coordination or manual dexterity at that age to keep something in view let alone find it.  Mounting a binocular will help but it would still need an adult to position it and the views are likely to be underwhelming to someone probably used to seeng photos in books.   🙂

[Tiny Clanger]

42 minutes ago, VaderAG said:

I actually have some binoculars but they're too big for the kids eyes

Presumably too wide a distance between the eyepieces ?

Cheap easy answer : leave one side's lens caps on, child treats the other side of your binoculars as a telescope.

Slightly more expensive answer : research and choose some binoculars from a reputable brand which publishes information about that eye spacing measurement, for instance :

https://www.bresser.de/en/Sport-Optics/Binoculars/BRESSER-Hunter-10x25-Pocket-Binoculars.html

shows that model has this range: "Interpupilar distance min. 32mm , max 73mm"

That sort of binocular (roof type) is less recommended for astronomy than the porro prism type , being harder to manufacture good quality at a low price point,  but for a child they have the advantages of lightness.  That particular set don't have a tripod adapter socket, but they are very light

[VaderAG]

I think after browsing this afternoon the Skywatcher 76 Mini seems best for what we need right now. Maybe not the best or everything we want to see, but a good starting point

Sadly, can't find in stock many places right now...

Just wondering, is this made by the same people? Looks identical

https://www.jessops.com/p/jessops/300x76-telescope-white-97001?gclid=Cj0KCQiAy579BRCPARIsAB6QoIY1Ggk6_HzzpVp_d5nMRUArTqFrlCT-A9lmUHcdDZBeYXL-b7s0ehAaAseHEALw_wcB

[Second Time Around]

I've just bought 2 different scopes for youngsters of different ages with different requirements. 

The first was a present this Xmas for the 13 year old daughter of a friend.   In this case I chose an ex-display Bresser 130mm table top Dobsonian.  They live in the country, so that aperture of scope is good for deep sky objects as well as the moon and planets.  She's perfectly capable of learning how to collimate a reflector herself.

The second was for two of my grandkids aged 6 and 13 who live in London.   Here the choice was a 70mm Celestron Starsense Explorer refractor.  With my disability there are some nights that is all I can manage.

The 6 year old doesn't have the patience and attention span of his older sister, and experience with them looking through my own scopes made me realise that finding objects had to be fast for him.  It would be bad enough in the country, but finding anything but the brightest objects in an urban area would mean that go-to or push-to would definitely speed things up, especially as his father has no experience in astronomy.  Moreover, he has to carry the scope a quarter of a mile uphill to Blackheath as their garden is surrounded by tall trees.  Go-to would need powering and would weigh more, quite apart from being more expensive.  Celestron's new Starsense Explorer is a real breakthrough in push-to.   The 70mm refractor version costs just £135.  OK, I upgraded the eyepieces and added an extra diagonal, but these could always have been added later.  The provided diagonal does have the advantage though of being able to be used for terrestrial viewing.

I've tested out both these scopes at home, and that convinced me that I'd made the right choice in each case.  In fact, I was so impressed with the Starsense Explorer technology that I've bought the same scope for myself!  I've converted it so that I can use it on all my scopes, but kept the 70mm as it's so light and portable.

So for a 5 year old I'd definitely recommend the 70mm Starsense Explorer.  The only problem is finding one in stock.

There are two schools of thought about binoculars.  Personally I don't go along with the idea of buying beginners to astronomy binoculars before a telescope.  This is especially so for young kids as few binoculars will fold close enough together.  A telescope will mean many more wow moments, and will for instance be powerful enough to show the rings of Saturn - something that binoculars won't.  These wow moments are far more likely to fan the flames and lead to a lasting interest.  So for me binoculars are an adjunct to a telescope - something to buy later if you don't already have a pair.  

 

Edited December 21, 2020 by Second Time Around
Added "ex-display" about the Bresser. Added to binoculars v telescopes.

[Girders]

Hi VaderAG,

Here's what I've learnt over the last three years with a now almost 7 year old...

• My first purchase was a 114mm mini dobsonian and it was *just* enough to produce tiny images of Jupiter and Saturn that were recognisable.
• At the magnification required planets move quickly through the eyepiece.  Taking turns is very tricky as by the time you've swapped it's moved on.
• I have a Virtuoso mini dob mount that's motorised and tracks - makes a big difference as things stay in view.
• Looking through an eyepiece is a skill that's hard for small kids to master.  Even now my 7 year old struggles and prefers to view through a smartphone on an adapter.  Even this is tricky to set up well.
• There are a very limited number of clear nights when the planets are well placed at reasonable times.  Over three years, although I've had plenty of good middle-of-the-night sessions I could probably count on one hand the number of times my daughter has seen anything other then the moon (which she loves) .

The Heritage 76mm (if you can locate one in stock) will give decent views of the moon, but even for that you probably need a 2x barlow to produce the kind of result a 5 year old expects from a telescope.  I don't think there is a satisfactory solution for viewing the planets for kids under £200 (heritage 130p plus phone adapter plus additional eyepiece/barlow) but that would give you a "proper" telescope that would last years.  But note that this would need to be an adult guided experience - although that probably applies for the 76mm also.

Lastly, there are other (better?) ways to encourage a youngster's interest in space/astronomy.  Lots of great books, Maddie & Greg's Lets Go Live Space Week on YouTube, Cambridge Astronomy kids talks on Youtube, buying them a piece of a meteorite (available from First Light Optics), or taking them out to a proper dark sky site on a moonless clear night to let them see how many stars are really out there.  

Well done for wanting to help their interest and for making your way here to ask questions.  Good luck with whatever you decide to try.