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Skyliner 250PX and viewing planets (eyepieces)


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Hello, 

Total beginner, UK based. I bought a Skyliner 250PX at the beginning of the year and had some joy looking at the moon.

I have the two stock 10 and 25mm eyepieces that came with the scope and I bought an Omegon 6mm

Tonight I managed to use the 6mm to look at Saturn and can see the rings. I also looked at Mars (and I think Jupiter), but they were just small bright spots, couldn't really see many distinguishing features.

Couple of questions:

1. I find that things move quite quickly out of view and find it quite hard to adjust the scope into a precise position. I'll adjust it and if I let go, it moves slightly. So I always have to hold it to try and keep the things in view. Any tips to try and get a more precise movement.

2. If I want to get greater magnification to see the rings of Saturn more clearly or see Mars better, what's the best approach. A magnification accessory or another eyepiece (or both)?

I saw this recommended on another thread, would it work with the Skyliner and my eyepiece? Anything better? Don't really have a budget.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/barlows/baader-classic-q-225x-barlow.html

Thanks in advance for any advice and your patience.

 

 

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Hey Climbingmagnet

 

Welcome to SGL

1-  the most accurate way of following targets that you will find move quite fast across your field of view at higher magnifications ,is to buy a computerised goto system that will move to track your target- these can be quite an expensive upgrade- failing this you will need to manually track the object as you have already started doing- the more you practice the better you will get

2- Using a barlow , like the one you highlighted , in conjunction with your eyepieces will increase your magnification and should give you better results-you should try to use the resources tab at the head of the forum and hit the  Astronomy tools then FOV calculator- you can input your scope details along with different eyepieces and barlows  and give you an idea of how changing different eyepieces etc will affect your view- and yes that baader barlow will work with your skyliner. Speaking to the guys at FLO will always be happy to give you lots of advice on prospective purchases

there are lots of things that affect your viewing, whilst the right equipment certainly helps, all manner of things will vary the quality of your viewing- read up on here about atmospheric conditions, collimation, light pollution, dark sky sites, cooling your scope before viewing, avoiding viewing over warm buildings etc- getting a handle on these things and what you can do to improve each of your sessions- 

spend time browsing this forum, you will get lots of ideas and knowledge and there are many people happy to assist and advise

dont make hasty purchases, you will find that time researching on here will pay dividends and save you wasted money- dont be afraid to ask questions on here 

 

J

 

Edited by jacobingonzo
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hi climbingmagnet. were did you think up a name like that

anyway back to your question. first is your scope colimated ?

is it close to ambient temperature ?

also sky quality can make a difference to what power you can use, we call this seeing. were the stars in those areas stable or twinkling

you do have a good scope so stick with it

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3 hours ago, climbingmagnet said:

Hello, 

Total beginner, UK based. I bought a Skyliner 250PX at the beginning of the year and had some joy looking at the moon.

I have the two stock 10 and 25mm eyepieces that came with the scope and I bought an Omegon 6mm

Tonight I managed to use the 6mm to look at Saturn and can see the rings. I also looked at Mars (and I think Jupiter), but they were just small bright spots, couldn't really see many distinguishing features.

Couple of questions:

1. I find that things move quite quickly out of view and find it quite hard to adjust the scope into a precise position. I'll adjust it and if I let go, it moves slightly. So I always have to hold it to try and keep the things in view. Any tips to try and get a more precise movement.

2. If I want to get greater magnification to see the rings of Saturn more clearly or see Mars better, what's the best approach. A magnification accessory or another eyepiece (or both)?

 

I'm surprised you can't see any features on Jupiter or Mars , I can make out bands and the GRS on Jupiter and the southern ice cap and various dark markings on Mars with a far smaller 150 mm diameter mirror skywatcher and an 8mm eyepiece. In addition to the two sets of excellent suggestions above, I'd try to improve things by making a simple shroud (if you  don't have one already) to block stray light from sneaking in through the open section of your  'scope.

The planet scudding across and out of field of view is inevitable with more magnification,  the greater the magnification, the smaller the area of sky you see, therefore the quicker the planet crosses it. All you can do is either buy a mount which tracks the object for you, or spend some time patiently learning to gently nudge the Dobsonian mount by tiny increments . There's a lot to learn !

Heather

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2 hours ago, faulksy said:

hi climbingmagnet. were did you think up a name like that

anyway back to your question. first is your scope colimated ?

is it close to ambient temperature ?

also sky quality can make a difference to what power you can use, we call this seeing. were the stars in those areas stable or twinkling

you do have a good scope so stick with it

hi, random user name generator :)

I haven't done any colimation.

It's much colder outside than inside, does it take about 30 mins to adjust?

There is a lot of light pollution, so I'm not expecting miracles, just want to try and see as much as I can.

Thanks.

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1 hour ago, Tiny Clanger said:

I'm surprised you can't see any features on Jupiter or Mars , I can make out bands and the GRS on Jupiter and the southern ice cap and various dark markings on Mars with a far smaller 150 mm diameter mirror skywatcher and an 8mm eyepiece. In addition to the two sets of excellent suggestions above, I'd try to improve things by making a simple shroud (if you  don't have one already) to block stray light from sneaking in through the open section of your  'scope.

The planet scudding across and out of field of view is inevitable with more magnification,  the greater the magnification, the smaller the area of sky you see, therefore the quicker the planet crosses it. All you can do is either buy a mount which tracks the object for you, or spend some time patiently learning to gently nudge the Dobsonian mount by tiny increments . There's a lot to learn !

Heather

Thanks, maybe I'm doing something quite wrong because Mars just seemed like quite a small dot to me. Saturn is also small but since I could make out the ring shape, there's no mistake there.

The shroud is a good idea.

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4 hours ago, jacobingonzo said:

Hey Climbingmagnet

 

Welcome to SGL

1-  the most accurate way of following targets that you will find move quite fast across your field of view at higher magnifications ,is to buy a computerised goto system that will move to track your target- these can be quite an expensive upgrade- failing this you will need to manually track the object as you have already started doing- the more you practice the better you will get

2- Using a barlow , like the one you highlighted , in conjunction with your eyepieces will increase your magnification and should give you better results-you should try to use the resources tab at the head of the forum and hit the  Astronomy tools then FOV calculator- you can input your scope details along with different eyepieces and barlows  and give you an idea of how changing different eyepieces etc will affect your view- and yes that baader barlow will work with your skyliner. Speaking to the guys at FLO will always be happy to give you lots of advice on prospective purchases

there are lots of things that affect your viewing, whilst the right equipment certainly helps, all manner of things will vary the quality of your viewing- read up on here about atmospheric conditions, collimation, light pollution, dark sky sites, cooling your scope before viewing, avoiding viewing over warm buildings etc- getting a handle on these things and what you can do to improve each of your sessions- 

spend time browsing this forum, you will get lots of ideas and knowledge and there are many people happy to assist and advise

dont make hasty purchases, you will find that time researching on here will pay dividends and save you wasted money- dont be afraid to ask questions on here 

 

J

 

Thank you.

Light pollution for now, I have to live with, I just use it in the front of back garden and guess have to wait a while until the scope cools down. 

I guess my main surprise was how small Mars looked, so maybe I'll look for something with 2/3x magnification. Thank you for the pointers, will spend some more time on the forum.

cheers

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We're under a pretty extreme jetstream at the moment, so that might be affecting your view of the planets. 

I was out watching Jupiter and Saturn early this evening, before it was properly dark, and although I could just make out the bands of Jupiter, they were pretty much coming and going. 

image.png.d29bb2765c489dc607ee384ec44d6456.png

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10 hours ago, climbingmagnet said:

1. I find that things move quite quickly out of view and find it quite hard to adjust the scope into a precise position. I'll adjust it and if I let go, it moves slightly. So I always have to hold it to try and keep the things in view. Any tips to try and get a more precise movement

There is a nut and bolt going through the bottom of your mount that connects the rocker box to the base board. It sounds like this is too tight. Try loosening it a little. You will have to do this by trial and error, and adjust so that you get the right amount of friction. Some people add washers cut from milk bottle washers (search the forum for this, there must be threads going into detail about it) or even add a lazy susan to replace the central bolt. 

If it is the altitude bearing that are tight, the handle protruding from the bearing adjusts the tension on skywatcher dobsonians. 

10 hours ago, climbingmagnet said:

If I want to get greater magnification to see the rings of Saturn more clearly or see Mars better, what's the best approach. A magnification accessory or another eyepiece (or both)?

A 6mm eyepiece in your telescope will be about optimum under UK skies (sometimes it will actually be too much) and so adding a barlow may not help that much and just scrub detail. It's actually a bit of an optical illusion that makes planets look even smaller when you look through an eyepiece with one eye. Finding a binoviewer and barlow/gpc that can be focused in your scope will allow you to use two eyes and make the planets seem bigger, as well as being more relaxing and allowing you to take in more detail. 

With regards to detail, collimation is very important in an f5 scope. I would recommend that a Cheshire is your next purchase if you don't already have one and that you spend some time reading through collimation guides and then follow one from start to finish. You probably won't get it right first time, but with practice you will get better and it will become easier. 

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On 05/11/2020 at 06:23, Ricochet said:

There is a nut and bolt going through the bottom of your mount that connects the rocker box to the base board. It sounds like this is too tight. Try loosening it a little. You will have to do this by trial and error, and adjust so that you get the right amount of friction. Some people add washers cut from milk bottle washers (search the forum for this, there must be threads going into detail about it) or even add a lazy susan to replace the central bolt. 

If it is the altitude bearing that are tight, the handle protruding from the bearing adjusts the tension on skywatcher dobsonians. 

A 6mm eyepiece in your telescope will be about optimum under UK skies (sometimes it will actually be too much) and so adding a barlow may not help that much and just scrub detail. It's actually a bit of an optical illusion that makes planets look even smaller when you look through an eyepiece with one eye. Finding a binoviewer and barlow/gpc that can be focused in your scope will allow you to use two eyes and make the planets seem bigger, as well as being more relaxing and allowing you to take in more detail. 

With regards to detail, collimation is very important in an f5 scope. I would recommend that a Cheshire is your next purchase if you don't already have one and that you spend some time reading through collimation guides and then follow one from start to finish. You probably won't get it right first time, but with practice you will get better and it will become easier. 

Thanks for your comments.

Can you recommend a binoviewer?

What's a Chesire?

Thinking of getting a 3mm of this: https://www.firstlightoptics.com/explore-scientific-eyepieces/explore-scientific-52-ler-series-eyepieces.html

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36 minutes ago, climbingmagnet said:

Thanks for your comments.

Can you recommend a binoviewer?

What's a Chesire?

Thinking of getting a 3mm of this: https://www.firstlightoptics.com/explore-scientific-eyepieces/explore-scientific-52-ler-series-eyepieces.html

A Cheshire is an aid to collimating a telescope, like this one for example. There are alternatives, like caps (cheaper) and lasers (usually more expensive)

 

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A 3mm eyepiece in your telescope gives 400x magnification, which is far too much for anything but the Moon. You already have a 6mm eyepiece (200x) which is likely the maximum useful magnification on most nights. I think it would be wiser to get something around 8-9mm for those nights when the seeing conditions don't support higher powers.

This is a good eyepiece: https://www.firstlightoptics.com/bst-starguider-eyepieces/bst-starguider-60-8mm-ed-eyepiece.html

Don't be put off by the fact that the planets look small. Have a read of this thread if you haven't already:

Increasing magnification isn't the answer as it just dims the image and lowers contrast. The best thing you can do is spend as much time as possible observing them to take advantage of moments of good seeing and develop your observing skills. It's surprising how much detail you can see with practice and patience. 

Also, as has already been said, I'd recommend getting a Cheshire to ensure your telescope is properly collimated. Collimation is very important for high magnification viewing.

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On 04/11/2020 at 13:32, climbingmagnet said:

2. If I want to get greater magnification to see the rings of Saturn more clearly or see Mars better, what's the best approach. A magnification accessory or another eyepiece (or both)?

Buy a large Dobsonian.  In my second year of observing 21 years ago, I bought a second hand 15" Dob to get increased image scale without sacrificing detail or contrast.

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Personally I think the best advice is to use your scope as often as possible on a wide range of targets.

Seeing more detail is more often a case of developing observing skills and experience and being out when the seeing conditions are good. These factors have the most influence over what you can see in my experience.

 

 

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As John said, it also takes practise to see detail on planets. Sometimes the detail is only fleeting. Of course collimation, mirror cooling seeing conditions and the eyepiece are all important factors too. Stick with it!

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As Saturn and Jupiter have got lower in the night sky I've found seeing detail with my skywatcher 150P ( essentially your scope on an Equatorial mount) has diminished. My max eyepiece has been a 6mm. There have been times I've seen more detail but can vary over one night. If you think about it the lower in the sky an object is the more of our atmosphere you are viewing through increases. I've found Mars too bright to discern detail and will be trying filters next time I view. It can take time to see detail using averted vision I.e not necessarily looking at the planet but allowing eye to skim around it definitely helps.

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8 hours ago, Matt61 said:

I've found Mars too bright to discern detail and will be trying filters next time I view.

Invest in an entry level binoviewer.  I also couldn't adjust to viewing Mars at opposition without heavy filtration using monovision.  However, once I switched to my binoviewers, I had no issues with brightness and could see loads of details with ease.  It has something to do with splitting the brightness in half, presenting the same view to both eyes, and allowing your brain to image process as it was intended to do, from two eyes.

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I think the most important factor affecting the views are the seeing conditions and the altitude of a planet. You can have the most accurate collimation and use perfect eyepieces, but I think the atmospheric conditions have the most profound effect on what you can actually see. When observing, there are moments when the atmosphere becomes suddenly stable and one can see much more details but usually just for a while. Quality of a planetary eyepiece certainly plays a big role here but I think it's effect is secondary. And certainly a tracking mount helps a lot, on axis views are always sharper.

Edited by runway77
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On 07/11/2020 at 14:16, Louis D said:

Invest in an entry level binoviewer.  I also couldn't adjust to viewing Mars at opposition without heavy filtration using monovision.  However, once I switched to my binoviewers, I had no issues with brightness and could see loads of details with ease.  It has something to do with splitting the brightness in half, presenting the same view to both eyes, and allowing your brain to image process as it was intended to do, from two eyes.

What's a good binoviewer please?

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2 hours ago, climbingmagnet said:

What's a good binoviewer please?

I have the Arcturus branded one which I believe is sold as OVL in the UK.  The same base unit is sold with different eyepiece holders by Williams Optical (WO).  Most folks prefer the collet lock (OVL) over the set screw/compression ring (WO) versions.  There are other brandings out there.  Do a search and check back on SGL for user opinions on whatever you find.

There are of course higher end binoviewers, and they have larger prisms to allow for wider views, better eyepiece holders, greater attachment flexibility, and system accessories such as power switches.  However, for starting out, the basic models with smaller prisms are fine performers for planetary viewing.  You'll need to budget for a pair of decent 50 to 60 degree eyepieces and possibly for a Barlow nosepiece (or dedicated GPC/OCS) to reach focus if the included one doesn't work for you.

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On 06/11/2020 at 12:30, climbingmagnet said:

Can you recommend a binoviewer?

I've recently (ish) ordered a Baader maxbright 2 as I believe it should offer better views than the cheaper options on the market and I am a big fan of Clicklock eyepiece holders which should ensure all eyepieces are properly held and centred, which is vital for merging the images from each eyepiece. You will have to measure the amount of in focus your telescope has and compare it to the table in the max bright manual to work out which, if any, gpcs will allow you to focus. With other binoviewers it may be a case of trial and error with different barlows to find a solution that can be focused. 

On 06/11/2020 at 12:30, climbingmagnet said:

What's a Chesire?

A tool for ensuring the mirrors in your telescope are correctly aligned. With a telescope as fast as yours, this is a crucial tool for getting good views. 

On 06/11/2020 at 12:30, climbingmagnet said:

Thinking of getting a 3mm

A waste of money. Atmospheric conditions in the UK will very rarely allow such a high power to be used. 

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