Planets seem so small

[semitte]

I'm fulfilling a life-long dream of getting a good telescope to see the planets.  I have a Celestron NexStar 8se, with both a 40mm lens, and a 8-24mm lens; but both of them cause the planets to look very small, with no detail or color.  Yes, I can see Saturn's rings, but it's just a small image that I feel I could get using binoculars.  What am I doing wrong??

[dweller25]

Hello @semitte and welcome to SGL.

You have a very good telescope and you are doing nothing wrong except perhaps you are expecting to see the planets like the photos in books ?

For best planetary results :

1. Cool your scope down by taking both end caps off and pointing the scope down to allow warm air to escape - do this for at least an hour before observing.

2. Once cooled - Check the collimation of your scope and adjust if necessary.

3. Try not to observe on concrete as it retains heat - grass is best and don’t observe over heat sources like neighbours roofs.

4. Observe when the planets are due south which is when they are at their highest elevation.

The planets need quite a lot of magnification, use your zoom to achieve the following :

Jupiter x180 (11mm setting)

Saturn x200 (10mm setting)

Mars x230 (9mm setting)

Jupiter and Saturn are very low at the moment and past this years closest approach, so not showing much detail, but Mars is climbing quite high by midnight now so you should see some surface detail.

Your local sky seeing conditions may vary nightly, some better than others and this will affect your scopes performance.

Do spend lots of time over many nights at the eyepiece observing and waiting for those brief moments of calm seeing which show more detail.

The more you observe the more you will see 👍

Hope that helps 🙂

 

Edited October 6, 2020 by dweller25

[alex_stars]

Welcome to SGL,

@dweller25 wrote great summary of planetary observing advice above. Do try to observe a lot and find out what you see. Especially Mars is fantastic these days under good seeing conditions.

Let us know how it goes. SGL is a great place to discuss observations, equipment questions/advice and all other related matters

Clear Skies!

[Waddensky]

You're not doing anything wrong. At useful magnifications, planets will always appear as very small disks - nothing like the pictures from astrophotographers or even space telescopes. The trick is to learn to recognise and discern the tiny details and contrast differences. It may take a while (and some nights with steady atmosphere) to get the hang of it, but it's worth it!

[NGC 1502]

The advice already given is great.

I’d just like to add my own welcome to SGL 👍

Ed.

[Jiggy 67]

All good advice, the one thing with  planets is patient observing with dark adapted eyes, if you spend some time with planets you will find that detail may reveal itself as your eyes adapt to what you are looking at, the same applies to DSO’s. Just one question to @dweller25 ....surely you would point the scope up, not down to cool it as warm air rises so will escape quicker??

[bingevader]

3 hours ago, semitte said:

but it's just a small image that I feel I could get using binoculars.

Imagine a pair of 8" binos!

I think the problem maybe be one of expectation.

I have been observing the planets through binoculars recently and have been amazed. Jupiter is unmistakably a planet with moons (I'm not expecting any detail though)! And Saturn is very definitely oval.

I have an 8" 'scope and can see plenty of detail.

However, the seeing conditions will have a great impact.

Just remember how far away they are and the relative size of the implement you are using from your back garden. It always amazes me!

4 minutes ago, Jiggy 67 said:

@dweller25 ....surely you would point the scope up, not down to cool it as warm air rises so will escape quicker??

There's glass at the front of the 8se.

Edited October 6, 2020 by bingevader

[JOC]

I wonder if the OP has seen this thread?  If not it might be worth them looking through at least page one an looking at the pictures and explanations.

 

 

[Chefgage]

Even with your 8mm eyepiece and good seeing conditions Jupiter will only be as big as what you see in the attached photo. Unfortunately expectation versus reality is often not good in astronomy. The link above showing the thread of what to expect is a very good read. The problem is that images you see of planets are not really what you will see at the scope eyepiece.

But, spend lots of time looking at say Jupiter. After a good few minutes if seeing conditions are good then it's surprising what you start to see. The longer you look the more detail seems to come through. You start to see details even though the image is small.

Edited October 6, 2020 by Chefgage

[Floater]

Welcome to the forum ... and harsh reality!

Hope you enjoy and have fun even if the views don’t match the magazine pics ...

[Cosmic Geoff]

23 minutes ago, Floater said:

Welcome to the forum ... and harsh reality!

Personally I found telescopic views of the planets a little disappointing.  In the end I turned to planetary imaging, which on most occasions showed me a lot more detail.  Maybe I am not a skilled visual observer, but with my 127 mm Mak I mostly could not make out Jupiter's Great Red Spot, yet when I imaged Jupiter with the same scope the image clearly showed the size, colour and shape of the GRS.

Currently I could make out some surface detail on Mars visually with a C8 SE but my images showed more.

[Louis D]

10 hours ago, semitte said:

I'm fulfilling a life-long dream of getting a good telescope to see the planets.  I have a Celestron NexStar 8se, with both a 40mm lens, and a 8-24mm lens; but both of them cause the planets to look very small, with no detail or color.  Yes, I can see Saturn's rings, but it's just a small image that I feel I could get using binoculars.  What am I doing wrong??

Get a 30" or larger Dob with a hand figured mirror and observe from a high desert location with good laminar flow.  Under those conditions, you can really push up the magnification to make planets look reasonably large. 😁

[inFINNity Deck]

Hi Semitte,

welcome to the forum. Jupiter and Saturn are quite low and due to this their colours get smeared out like sunlight in a rainbow. This can be counteracted by using an ADC (Atmospheric Dispersion Corrector) and should result in better colours, although it remains difficult to see that visually, much depending on seeing.

HTH,

Nicolàs

[JOC]

1 hour ago, Louis D said:

Get a 30" or larger Dob with a hand figured mirror and observe from a high desert location with good laminar flow.  Under those conditions, you can really push up the magnification to make planets look reasonably large.

What I always find astonishing about pictures of telescopes like that is it all boils down a fairly standard off-the-shelf EP that anyone can own jammed in the EP holder!

[vlaiv]

1 hour ago, Louis D said:

Get a 30" or larger Dob with a hand figured mirror and observe from a high desert location with good laminar flow.  Under those conditions, you can really push up the magnification to make planets look reasonably large.

This is probably first time I've seen 8" scope being used as finder.

I do worry that by the time I'd get up the ladder - target would move out of the FOV and I'd need to get back down to again align the scope

[kirkster501]

The OP point is a very valid one and i hear this said all the time.  Not helped by pictures on telescope boxes etc setting the wrong expectations.

To the OP, the planets are very, VERY far away.  Rather like looking at a building from 20 miles away,  it is still going to be small in the telescope and more magnification is not necessarily going to make it any better.  You have to learn to observe.

[Louis D]

11 minutes ago, vlaiv said:

This is probably first time I've seen 8" scope being used as finder.

I do worry that by the time I'd get up the ladder - target would move out of the FOV and I'd need to get back down to again align the scope

Actually, that's a 12.5" f/5 finder scope on that 40" Dob:

The 40-inch is 17 feet high when pointed at the zenith. It weighs over 800 lbs. Steve (Swayze) and Bruce worked for months grinding, polishing, and figuring the mirror. The truss tubes are covered with a black shroud during observing sessions, to enclose the tube and block stray light. The "finder" scope mounted piggyback on the mirror box, seen here on the right side of the photo, is a 12.5" f/5 telescope, also built by Steve. The first photo was taken at our Goat Mt. site, with Mt. Hood in the background. The ladder is a 16-foot orchard ladder built with extra steps. It is very stable, resting on 3 feet with a very wide base.

My point being that various folks have gone to great lengths to make faint objects bigger/brighter and small objects larger/higher resolution.  Anyone using an 8" scope is going to have to have tempered expectations.

[Pixies]

36 minutes ago, vlaiv said:

I do worry that by the time I'd get up the ladder - target would move out of the FOV and I'd need to get back down to again align the scope

I'd worry that by the time I'd get up the ladder, the sun would be up!

I don't think I'd find it very a very relaxed observation.

[bingevader]

2 hours ago, Louis D said:

Anyone using an 8" scope is going to have to have tempered expectations.

Maybe not 'Anyone'. Or is it that I am just easily pleased? 😆

I'm still loving the views and am always amazed at what I can see from my own back garden.

[inFINNity Deck]

6 minutes ago, bingevader said:

Maybe not 'Anyone'. Or is it that I am just easily pleased? 😆

I'm still loving the views and am always amazed at what I can see from my own back garden.

I remember very well that I was very pleased with the views of Jupiter and Saturn with my first (loaned) telescope: a Celestron Nexstar 5SE with some simple eyepieces.

Nicolàs

[Dantooine]

4 hours ago, Louis D said:

Get a 30" or larger Dob with a hand figured mirror and observe from a high desert location with good laminar flow.  Under those conditions, you can really push up the magnification to make planets look reasonably large. 😁

I’d be off that ladder in under 30 seconds. 

[John]

What could possibly go wrong !

[Dantooine]

1 minute ago, John said:

What could possibly go wrong !

Head first into the mirror for a truly immersive experience 🤣

[saac]

50 minutes ago, Dantooine said:

I’d be off that ladder in under 30 seconds. 

Let gravity do the work and you would make it in 0.86 seconds or thereabout  

Jim

[semitte]

I'm blown away by all of you guys' help!  I got back on this evening hoping that someone had responded -- but I got a lot of good info here!  Thanks to all of you!!