ZWO ASI533MC Pro VS ZWO183MC Pro

[KEJ]

Hi

I was just after some advice and opinions on which potential ZWO camera I should buy.

Currently, I have been using either a Nikon D3300(crop) or Nikon D800(FF) on a William Optics Z61(61mm, 360mm FL) main scope with a 61A Flattener, mounted on SW AZ-GTI, controlled by a ASIAIR Pro, guided by ZWO ASI120MC-S and 30F4 guide scope.

I am pretty new to astrophotography, so I am also currently really happy sticking with a colour camera, rather than B&W, especially with our weather and sometimes limited windows of opportunity.

The two in the running are:

ASI183MC Pro or ASI533MC Pro

So, thinking aloud, these are some of the questions I am curious about and I am leaning towards the ASI533MC Pro.

1) FOV

I think the ASI533MC Pro camera is a great option(really like the zero amp glow), my only slight concern was the FOV on my WO Z61(61mm and 360mm FL) for some of the wider DSO’s like M31 and M45 and even maybe some of the other nebula’s(all that said maybe they wouldn’t fit either at 360mm on any of those cameras).

 So, what are my options on that front………….Mosaics, Reducer. However, I have some other Nikon camera lens, providing those adapters work and has anyone ever tried them ?

 I like the idea of using an adapter as I do have various camera lens which could potentially give me more options(zoomed in more or further back), this wouldn't be my goto option for DSO, but I do like the idea as a fall back.

Ie:(All Nikon lens): 

 Sigma 150-600mm F5-6.3

Nikon 24-120mm F4 

Sigma 105mm F2.8 DG

Nikkor 55-300mm F4.5-5.6

And several smaller(80mm, 50mm, 35mm, 10mm etc).

 

Question 1

Are those ZWO camera to Nikon DSLR camera lens adapters any good ?

2) Arc Seconds Per Pixel

So, my understanding and providing my calculations are correct, initially it would appear that the 183 might suit me better(FOV and Arc Seconds per pixel) on the WO Z61.

Based on.

 ASI183 MC Pro

2.4/360 x 206 = 1.37

ASI533 MC Pro

3.76 / 360 X 206 = 2.15

 

And my understanding is that figure should ideally be between 1 and 2, although 0.15 over 2 is not a great deal if I compare my DSLR’s below that I have been using.

 D800 Nikon

4.88/360 x 206 = 2.79

 D3300 Nikon

3.89/360 x 206 = 2.22

 And to be honest and ok I know no better, they seem relatively good.

However, later maybe would I buy a bigger scope (if my wife doesn't murder me), so potentially on a larger scope say 600mm FL – I believe the 533 is more of a perfect fit.

 ASI183 MC Pro

2.4/600 x 206 = 0.82

 

ASI533 MC Pro

3.76 /600 X 206 = 1.29

Question 2

Should I be concerned that for my current scope(Z61) that the arc seconds per pixel are just outside 2.15 going for the ASI533MC ?

 3) Picture Quality

At the minute I pretty much view my pictures on the computer or email people(sending them to sleep). But the other factor is picture quality, if I did print(would I ever ????) or general viewing.

 So looking at picture size, the ASI533 MC does seem to have a pretty big drop off pixel wise

 

ASI183 MC

5496 X 3672 = 20meg pixel picture

 

ASI533 MC

3008 X 3008 = 9meg pixel picture

My current setup using DSLR's

D3300 Nikon

6045 X 4003 = 24meg pixel picture

 D800 Nikon

7360 X 4912 = 36meg pixel picture

 Now the ASI183MC Pro has small pixel pitch/size on the sensor and captures a larger area potentially, so I assume in greater detail.

Therefore, looking at Fig01 below the FOV and not really a million miles out size wise, but considering the pixels per picture, could I assume the 533 would be a lot worse(almost half the quality), possibly on a single exposure(not that I would as a final product when stacking).

OR

When stacking, albeit 100 x 9meg(533) pictures or 100 x 20 meg(183)pictures, the quality of the final outputs would in fact be similar and it would be hard to tell the difference.

All that said, the ASI533MC Pro, is already cropped in as such, so maybe I wouldn’t be cutting in so much in post, but not so detailed.

 

On the other hand is that very important with such distance objects DSO’s

 

Question 3

Should I be concerned that its only 9meg ?

Sorry for the long winded questions, but I want to make the right choice.

Fig01 (sky safari comparing 533 vs 183) 533 is square based on using Z61 scope.

 

 

Edited November 8, 2020 by Cornelius Varley
formatting corrected for colour

[KEJ]

Pulled the trigger on the ASI533MC Pro

[Adam J]

1 hour ago, KEJ said:

Pulled the trigger on the ASI533MC Pro

Lol did not give people much change to reply, but you did the right thing, the ASI533MC Pro is baring maybe hyperstar almost always going to be the superior choice. Its just so much more sensitive than the 183. 

Adam

Edited October 5, 2020 by Adam J

[KEJ]

Adam hi

I hope you are right.  

I know, my finger was there............

Of course now, I have more questions as currently I have a WOZ61 Scope = then the 61A Flattener = then my My DSLR

So not sure at this stage if the flattener will still be required(I suspect it will be) or how it will all connect up..............to be continued.

 

 

[Tiab]

Just bought the same. Went a step further than you since the 183 was already in the mail when I decided to go for the 533.

Now they are both on the way I have time to think of  

A ) Additional lies for the wife

B ) Which one of these will automatically enable me to get hubblesque images from my 6" Ritchey-chretien 

I've spent all of my money which I've heard is the key to success

 

 

 

[KEJ]

6 hours ago, Tiab said:

Just bought the same. Went a step further than you since the 183 was already in the mail when I decided to go for the 533.

Now they are both on the way I have time to think of  

A ) Additional lies for the wife

B ) Which one of these will automatically enable me to get hubblesque images from my 6" Ritchey-chretien 

I've spent all of my money which I've heard is the key to success

 

 

 

Hide the knives as well 😉  blimey you are brave, I do also have a ASI462MC Pro on order, no more spending for me then for a minute.

I think you are correct, can be an expensive hobby.

[KEJ]

So, probably not the best, first outing last night with the ASI533 MC Pro.

M33 (NGC598) Trianglum Galaxy (Fig01)
2.73 million light years from Earth.

22 x 3min Exposures, 101 Gain.

Bortle 6.

M31 Andromeda Galaxy (Fig02).
Testing the new camera - 2nd night.
ASI533MC Pro, WO Z61 360mm FL, AZ-GTI.
Gain 101, 37 X 2 min Exp.
Bortle 6 sky.

 

Fig01

 

Fig02

[symmetal]

Not bad at all for the first try with the camera. 🙂

Alan

[KEJ]

1 hour ago, symmetal said:

Not bad at all for the first try with the camera. 🙂

Alan

Cheers!

 

[KEJ]

Just to show the difference between cameras(only screen shots).

 

Picture on the right

Taken July 2020, using a Nikon DSLR(unmodified, standard camera).

31 x 3min exps = 93mins of data.

 

Picture on the left

Taken Oct 2020(few night ago), using a Astro Camera(ASI533 MC Pro), cooled to -10 degrees & a gain of zero.

5 x 5 min exposures = 25mins of data.

 

Edited October 14, 2020 by KEJ

[Adam J]

2 hours ago, KEJ said:

Just to show the difference between cameras(only screen shots).

 

Picture on the right

Taken July 2020, using a Nikon DSLR(unmodified, standard camera).

31 x 3min exps = 93mins of data.

 

Picture on the left

Taken Oct 2020(few night ago), using a Astro Camera(ASI533 MC Pro), cooled to -10 degrees & a gain of zero.

5 x 5 min exposures = 25mins of data.

 

I think your colour balance is shifted towards the green and needs addressing. But you can clearly see that the 533 is pulling in much more signal. 

Adam

[KEJ]

On 14/10/2020 at 14:04, Adam J said:

I think your colour balance is shifted towards the green and needs addressing. But you can clearly see that the 533 is pulling in much more signal. 

Adam

Adam

I think you are 100% right.

 

Cheers

[Grant Fribbens]

I currently have the WO 61 with the FLAT61A and the ASI183MC Pro on the EQ6-R mount (overkill!) but have also just purchased the FLAT61R as M31 is still too big for my fov. The ASI183MC Pro does have a lot of glow but I have managed to get rid of this using Astro Pixel Processor with the use of darks and dark flats although have not done flats yet which I have just got a LED tracing board for. This was my first attempt of M31 back in July and I can see loads of red artefacts coming from the area of glow from the ASI183MC which you will not get from the ASI533.

And this is my second attempt this month with much clearer skies and where I tried out dithering for the first time.

If I had not got the ASI183MC Pro before the ASI533 came out I would have gone for that but I am pleased with what I have achieved having only started doing this in December 2019. I am much happier with the last image but still needs tweaking in photoshop but am still trying to learn those techniques!

[KEJ]

Nice pictures.

I better not spend anything else for the minute, but a reducer would come in handy or do I look at create mosaic.

And as you say the post processing makes a big difference.

 

 

[Grant Fribbens]

I am looking into doing a mosaic with APT but just do not seem to be there the yet. I am looking at using SkyChart/Cartes du Ciel and then importing the plan into APT but am not sure that I have my starting rotation correct. Hopefully when the skies clear I will get to try out the Flat61R an see how that goes. 

[CCD-Freak]

I went with the ASI-533MCP and have not regretted it.  I like the square sensor, the no amp glow, 14 bit ADC and good well depth.  It produces clean data which is usually easy to process.

This is one of my favorite images I have made with it so far.  The Horse Head and Flame Nebula complex  60 x 60 seconds (1 hour total)  taken with a Sharpstar 150mm F2.8 Hyperbolic Imaging Newt.

 

John Love
CCD-Freak
WD5IKX

[KEJ]

Blimey, that is a great picture.

Unfortunately, lots of cloud, wind and rain here in the UK.

[KEJ]

On 26/10/2020 at 00:08, CCD-Freak said:

I went with the ASI-533MCP and have not regretted it.  I like the square sensor, the no amp glow, 14 bit ADC and good well depth.  It produces clean data which is usually easy to process.

This is one of my favorite images I have made with it so far.  The Horse Head and Flame Nebula complex  60 x 60 seconds (1 hour total)  taken with a Sharpstar 150mm F2.8 Hyperbolic Imaging Newt.

 

John Love
CCD-Freak
WD5IKX

Lovely picture

[Phillyo]

I went with the ASI533 and I'm really happy with it. Might go mono further down the line but for now working with these clean files (bias and darks are a thing of the past) is just so lovely. Shooting with fast optics (f2.8) and a wide 135mm lens gave me really clean results with only 3-4 hours of data on M31.

[CCD-Freak]

18 hours ago, Phillyo said:

I went with the ASI533 and I'm really happy with it. Might go mono further down the line but for now working with these clean files (bias and darks are a thing of the past) is just so lovely. Shooting with fast optics (f2.8) and a wide 135mm lens gave me really clean results with only 3-4 hours of data on M31.

That is one of the most pleasing shots of M31 I have ever seen.   The ASI-533MCP is a "keeper".

John Love
CCD-Freak
WD5IKX

[CCD-Freak]

Here is another image from the New Mexico trip.  B150 The Sea Horse  300 x 60 seconds (5 hours shot over three nights) with the ASI-533MCP through a SS 150mm F2.8 Hyper Newt (420mm FL)

I am not quite ready to "stick a fork in it and call it done" as I am still trying different processing in Astro Art. 

John Love
CCD-Freak
WD5IKX

[KEJ]

On 07/11/2020 at 21:56, Phillyo said:

I went with the ASI533 and I'm really happy with it. Might go mono further down the line but for now working with these clean files (bias and darks are a thing of the past) is just so lovely. Shooting with fast optics (f2.8) and a wide 135mm lens gave me really clean results with only 3-4 hours of data on M31.

Really impressive.  I must admit I have recently ordered a ZWO to Nikon lens adapter, I assume you have used something similar ?

 

Great picture though.

[KEJ]

On 08/11/2020 at 16:09, CCD-Freak said:

Here is another image from the New Mexico trip.  B150 The Sea Horse  300 x 60 seconds (5 hours shot over three nights) with the ASI-533MCP through a SS 150mm F2.8 Hyper Newt (420mm FL)

I am not quite ready to "stick a fork in it and call it done" as I am still trying different processing in Astro Art. 

John Love
CCD-Freak
WD5IKX

A different target than the more popular choices, nice work.

[Phillyo]

2 hours ago, KEJ said:

Really impressive.  I must admit I have recently ordered a ZWO to Nikon lens adapter, I assume you have used something similar ?

 

Great picture though.

Thank you, yes I have the ZWO to canon adapter with the filter 2" drawer in it. 

[KEJ]

On 07/11/2020 at 21:56, Phillyo said:

I went with the ASI533 and I'm really happy with it. Might go mono further down the line but for now working with these clean files (bias and darks are a thing of the past) is just so lovely. Shooting with fast optics (f2.8) and a wide 135mm lens gave me really clean results with only 3-4 hours of data on M31.

Thats pretty outstanding - nice work