HELP choosing my first scope, ta very much :)

[JacobiteJake]

11 hours ago, mikeDnight said:

Hi David,

I wouldn't say I'm experienced with the various types of mount available today, as there are so many variations. I do have my personal preferences however, which may vary to those of others. I'm not a fan of anything computerised! Computerised mounts are either not fit for purpose, which encompasses pretty much everything below £1000. And everything above £1000 tends to be too clever for me and has a mind of their own. The lower end are highly frustrating and probably responsible for sapping the joy out of the hobby for many a beginner, leading them to believe that astronomy is not for them. While the upper end can be life threatening. I'll never forget my night observing with my friends Paramount and C14, when I spent my time repeatedly having to jump out of the way of the massive tube assembly and steel counterweight, as they hurtled round at high speed after I inadvertently kept pressing the Home button by mistake, which was situated in the centre of the joy stick. Bear in mind, i struggle with a TV remote!

I like things to be simple, as all I want to do is look through a telescope, enjoy the sight, and spend as little time as possible having to think. So I like simple altazimuth mounts, which are intuitive and glide with just a touch. These mounts can be both lightweight and reasonably solid, so are ideal for field trips or as a quick grab and go. They also tend to be relatively inexpensive.

As I'm primarily a lunar and planetary observer, I find a German equatorial mount of real benefit, as it simply follows the object across the sky either by use of a simple RA motor or by a gentle turn of the RA control knob. German mounts are dead easy to set up, as all you need to do is ensure the polar axis is aimed reasonably close to Polaris and away you go. For visual observing they don't have to be spot on accurate as regards alignment. They take a little more thinking about than an altazimuth mount, buy you'd soon get to grips with it and controlling one would become second nature.

I use both types. Below are my AZ4 altazimuth and my Vixen GP  (German equatorial).

 

Cheers Mike

It's a none motorised for me then, is there a difference between a german and an english equatorial? Or is it just where it was made?

You made me smile with the 'Life threatening story' shame you didn't video it, that's a viral video if ever I've seen one, not to mention £250 from 'You've Been Framed!'  You could be famous by now  

[JacobiteJake]

20 hours ago, JacobiteJake said:

Blimey John, now that looks great, is it the top of the range one from Sky Watcher, the espirit I think it's called?  The tripod and mount looks like it could withstand a small earthquake  Do you find it's fairly easy to keep onto a target manually, I hope so as it's just more cost buying a motorised mount and tripod.  I'll keep scouring ebay, facebook marketplace and the classifieds on here but I'm not getting my hopes up finding a 102 or 120 ed anytime soon   Best start saving some more me thinks  

Just a thought John, is that a clamp that holds the plate nice and tight without placing screw marks on it, only I've noticed on some used scopes that there are a lot of indentations in the plates where the screws dig it when you clamp it to the mount.  Or do you need to buy a different clamp that just squeezes it and not digs in with screws, hope that makes sense  

[randomic]

23 minutes ago, JacobiteJake said:

Thanks, I was hoping that it could be purchased without the GOTO mount as there are a few not so favorable reviews that say you should give the mount a wide berth due to a few issues with vibration and bugs.

You can purchase the OTA without mount (Celestron C8 XLT) but I honestly think it's a great deal. I've used these kinds of mounts before and have never had an issue.

Plus, like someone else said, you can always buy an equatorial mount later if you decide you want to do some imaging. It's a nice upgrade path which I nearly went down myself (in the end I jumped straight to an imaging setup at great expense)

[johninderby]

Dovetail saddle clamps are a popular upgrade. There are many different types available. They clamp the dovetail bar rather than having a screw that digs into the dovetail bar.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/search/for/saddle/

Edited October 5, 2020 by johninderby

[John]

34 minutes ago, JacobiteJake said:

Just a thought John, is that a clamp that holds the plate nice and tight without placing screw marks on it, only I've noticed on some used scopes that there are a lot of indentations in the plates where the screws dig it when you clamp it to the mount.  Or do you need to buy a different clamp that just squeezes it and not digs in with screws, hope that makes sense  

There are a number of aftermarket clamp upgrades available. I use the ADM type as shown by @johninderby above. I'm not bothered by getting digs and marks on the dovetail bar particularly but I feel that the ADM type of clamp, and there are other good designs as well, offers a more secure attachment for the scope than the stock clamps that are sometimes supplied with mounts.

 

 

[JacobiteJake]

3 hours ago, randomic said:

You can purchase the OTA without mount (Celestron C8 XLT) but I honestly think it's a great deal. I've used these kinds of mounts before and have never had an issue.

Plus, like someone else said, you can always buy an equatorial mount later if you decide you want to do some imaging. It's a nice upgrade path which I nearly went down myself (in the end I jumped straight to an imaging setup at great expense)

Thanks Randomic, I'll definitely keep a look out for one over the next few months, cheers

[JacobiteJake]

2 hours ago, johninderby said:

Dovetail saddle clamps are a popular upgrade. There are many different types available. They clamp the dovetail bar rather than having a screw that digs into the dovetail bar.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/search/for/saddle/

 

Thanks Johninderby, cracking picture, just what I'd need if I end up spending all my savings on a new scope, and like John below says, they're much more secure  

[JacobiteJake]

2 hours ago, John said:

There are a number of aftermarket clamp upgrades available. I use the ADM type as shown by @johninderby above. I'm not bothered by getting digs and marks on the dovetail bar particularly but I feel that the ADM type of clamp, and there are other good designs as well, offers a more secure attachment for the scope than the stock clamps that are sometimes supplied with mounts.

 

 

Thanks John, yes, it certainly does look far more secure, a whole face in contact rather than a couple of screws.  I haven't seen how much they cost yet but maybe I'll come across one second hand when I've got my scope.  Cheers  

[MarsG76]

6 hours ago, JacobiteJake said:

Thanks, I was hoping that it could be purchased without the GOTO mount as there are a few not so favorable reviews that say you should give the mount a wide berth due to a few issues with vibration and bugs.

That would be the Celestron C8 OTA... essentially it's the same scope except that it's black as opposed to orange.... I didn't find the 8SE mount that wobbly, it's quite good for a single arm mount and a 8" SCT... I used worse... but it's noticeably not as stable as my CGEM...

[mikeDnight]

12 hours ago, JacobiteJake said:

Cheers Mike

It's a none motorised for me then, is there a difference between a german and an english equatorial? Or is it just where it was made?

You made me smile with the 'Life threatening story' shame you didn't video it, that's a viral video if ever I've seen one, not to mention £250 from 'You've Been Framed!'  You could be famous by now  

The German equatorial has the telescope off axis and uses a counterweight to balance the load. It's a great and popular design which allows easy access to the polar regions. An English equatorial is a two armed fork. The telescope is cradled between the fork arms and the fork itself is tilted so that its axis lines up with the pole. It's a good design as it gets rid of the need for a counterweight. However, its only good for relatively short telescopes and accessing the pole can be difficult because the body of the mount gets in the way. Often you'll see older Schmidt Cassegrains mounted on this kind of fork mount, where as more modern SCT's tend to be mounted on computerised altazimuth mounts that track an object. Each has its advantages and its drawbacks! ☺

 

[JacobiteJake]

12 hours ago, mikeDnight said:

The German equatorial has the telescope off axis and uses a counterweight to balance the load. It's a great and popular design which allows easy access to the polar regions. An English equatorial is a two armed fork. The telescope is cradled between the fork arms and the fork itself is tilted so that its axis lines up with the pole. It's a good design as it gets rid of the need for a counterweight. However, its only good for relatively short telescopes and accessing the pole can be difficult because the body of the mount gets in the way. Often you'll see older Schmidt Cassegrains mounted on this kind of fork mount, where as more modern SCT's tend to be mounted on computerised altazimuth mounts that track an object. Each has its advantages and its drawbacks! ☺

 

Thanks Mike, I've never learnt so much, it's a crackin forum for Star Gazers, cheers.