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What would be a good next step from a Star Adventurer Mini?


MKHACHFE

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Hi all,

So, I first dipped my toe in the AP ocean this last April, with a Canon 4000d, a Star Adventurer Pro mini and various slow lenses (mostly used my Canon 70-300mm f5.6). I feel i have learned a vast amount since then, as well as getting some great images. I'm ready to move up and having given it a lot of thought, i am going to sell my XT8 and various EP's and filters to finance the upgrade to my AP setup. I will also be able to add roughly £350 on top of what i get from the sales i make. 

Assuming a total budget of £750-£800, i was considering these:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/equatorial-astronomy-mounts/ioptron-smarteq-pro-goto-equatorial-mount.html

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/equatorial-astronomy-mounts/skywatcher-heq5-pro-synscan.html

 

To be honest, i dont need a Goto, im very comfortable and proficient at targeting. I'm a bit lost as to what my upgrade path should be. I should also mention that I will be getting the DSLR modified soon as well. 

 

 

Thanks for reading. 

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That's a difficult question to answer, it depends on how keen you are on the hobby, how far you expect to progress and how much money you are willing to put into it over time. I started with an HEQ5 (Excellent mount), NIkon D750 (unmodded) + Backyard Nikon control. Then added an Esprit 80 (Excellent scope), Guiding (Finder Scope), a cooled CCD (SX814), 5 position EFW, Filters, Guiding OAG and SGPro/PHD2 etc. 

I have just upgraded scope, mount, EFW, filters again and am now designing an observatory. 

I'm hooked on the hobby and whilst its not cheap at any level it has become the main drain on my hobby wallet by far - so beware! 

I suggest consider where you think you might go, for what its worth these are my regrets, easy with hindsight hard to predict without it:

  • Buying an HEQ5 - Its a fantastic mount if you want to use scopes like the Esprit 80 and will give you 20 minute NB exposures (guided) no problem and I would suggest this mount as a minimum starting point! But if you may want to get a bigger scope later, as I did, you will need a bigger mount. The EQ6 R Pro may be out of your price range but take a look. I predict once you get a mount you will start to look at telescopes.
  • Buying a 5 position EFW - Having to swap filters out to switch between LRGB and NB is a pain - yes you can do it but it takes time and risks getting dust into the EFW.  I wish I bought 7 position from the outset. 
  • Camera - I already had a Nikon D750 but a cooled camera is so much better I wouldn't buy a DSLR or mod one purely for Astro. My SX814 is an amazing camera, low noise and high resolution and my images improved significantly but there are much cheaper cooled options. That's not to say you cant take great images with a DSLR, whilst not technically my best image one of my favourites to this day was taken with my unmodded Nikon ( https://www.astrobin.com/0wtqko/?nc=user ). I bought a cooled mono camera early on and am glad I did the reduced noise makes a huge difference- had I got colour I would have soon replaced it with mono.

It's an expensive hobby and hard if you have a tight budget so really think about where you are going with it - buying second hand can help and you can use the time between upgrades to save up and gain experience. I suggest you focus on getting the best mount you can afford, everything else depends on the mount, also having goto is amazing and saves a lot of valuable imaging time - If you want to progress in the hobby I suggest a goto is vital. If you get into using SGPro or similar the goto allows you to image the same subject over several nights - you just tell the software where you were imaging last night and it will plate solve and get you within a few pixels of where you were and you continue imaging.  You can then stack lots of subs, reduce noise and get vastly improved images.

Lots of options, unknowns and steep learning curves so hard to be specific but I would probably try and start with at least an HEQ5 and perhaps look to get a second hand one if necessary. It depends how hooked you are, if you are keen and going to do this for at least a few years I expect you will go down a path similar to this adding items:

  • Mount - using unmodded DSLR and BackYard Canon (But I would look at NINA/SGPro from the outset)
  • Use DSS for stacking (Free) and something like Star Tools for processing (cheap and easy to use - you will have enough learning to do on other things for now)
  • Telescope - short FL - something like Esprit 80 / 400 (Don't buy a long FL scope to start with they demand too much of the mount and guiding skills which come over time.) Use with DSLR to start with.
  • CCD/CMOS Cooled camera + EFW and LRGB filters (Colour is ok but look at mono - its more efficient/flexible)  - there are plenty of targets that fit a small chip so you can keep costs down. 
  • Imaging software (SGPro/NINA etc) - if you don't have software control you will now star to need it.
  • Guiding - Guide camera + use the finder scope that probably came with the scope.  PHD2 software
  • Autofocuser - not vital but so much easier - nice to sit indoors whilst imaging :) 
  • Polar Alignment support (Polemaster or SharpCap etc) - Best non essential item I bought - I never have to look though a polar scope again - all done in a few minutes
  • Ha OIII SII filters (why you bought a 7 position wheel for LRGB earlier)
  • PixInsight for processing images and stacking
  • OAG - using same guide camera
  • Bigger mount/Scope/full frame cooled camera/observatory :o

Lots of choice in hardware and software, I've mentioned what I use but lots of alternatives. You will ultimately want to use PixInsight but personally I think its a big learning curve with everything else when you are starting and Star Tools is very good for LRGB processing, less so with NB. (I can produce stunning LRBG images in Star Tools in 20 minutes - takes me all day to do the same in PI - but eventually it becomes limiting)

So, have a plan, short and medium term, do one thing at a time, lots a baby steps because you will change your plan as you progress and gain experience. 

Hope this helps, there are few right or wrong answers, good luck with whatever you do!

 

 

Edited by Midnight_lightning
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11 hours ago, Midnight_lightning said:

That's a difficult question to answer, it depends on how keen you are on the hobby, how far you expect to progress and how much money you are willing to put into it over time. I started with an HEQ5 (Excellent mount), NIkon D750 (unmodded) + Backyard Nikon control. Then added an Esprit 80 (Excellent scope), Guiding (Finder Scope), a cooled CCD (SX814), 5 position EFW, Filters, Guiding OAG and SGPro/PHD2 etc. 

I have just upgraded scope, mount, EFW, filters again and am now designing an observatory. 

I'm hooked on the hobby and whilst its not cheap at any level it has become the main drain on my hobby wallet by far - so beware! 

I suggest consider where you think you might go, for what its worth these are my regrets, easy with hindsight hard to predict without it:

  • Buying an HEQ5 - Its a fantastic mount if you want to use scopes like the Esprit 80 and will give you 20 minute NB exposures (guided) no problem and I would suggest this mount as a minimum starting point! But if you may want to get a bigger scope later, as I did, you will need a bigger mount. The EQ6 R Pro may be out of your price range but take a look. I predict once you get a mount you will start to look at telescopes.
  • Buying a 5 position EFW - Having to swap filters out to switch between LRGB and NB is a pain - yes you can do it but it takes time and risks getting dust into the EFW.  I wish I bought 7 position from the outset. 
  • Camera - I already had a Nikon D750 but a cooled camera is so much better I wouldn't buy a DSLR or mod one purely for Astro. My SX814 is an amazing camera, low noise and high resolution and my images improved significantly but there are much cheaper cooled options. That's not to say you cant take great images with a DSLR, whilst not technically my best image one of my favourites to this day was taken with my unmodded Nikon ( https://www.astrobin.com/0wtqko/?nc=user ). I bought a cooled mono camera early on and am glad I did the reduced noise makes a huge difference- had I got colour I would have soon replaced it with mono.

It's an expensive hobby and hard if you have a tight budget so really think about where you are going with it - buying second hand can help and you can use the time between upgrades to save up and gain experience. I suggest you focus on getting the best mount you can afford, everything else depends on the mount, also having goto is amazing and saves a lot of valuable imaging time - If you want to progress in the hobby I suggest a goto is vital. If you get into using SGPro or similar the goto allows you to image the same subject over several nights - you just tell the software where you were imaging last night and it will plate solve and get you within a few pixels of where you were and you continue imaging.  You can then stack lots of subs, reduce noise and get vastly improved images.

Lots of options, unknowns and steep learning curves so hard to be specific but I would probably try and start with at least an HEQ5 and perhaps look to get a second hand one if necessary. It depends how hooked you are, if you are keen and going to do this for at least a few years I expect you will go down a path similar to this adding items:

  • Mount - using unmodded DSLR and BackYard Canon (But I would look at NINA/SGPro from the outset)
  • Use DSS for stacking (Free) and something like Star Tools for processing (cheap and easy to use - you will have enough learning to do on other things for now)
  • Telescope - short FL - something like Esprit 80 / 400 (Don't buy a long FL scope to start with they demand too much of the mount and guiding skills which come over time.) Use with DSLR to start with.
  • CCD/CMOS Cooled camera + EFW and LRGB filters (Colour is ok but look at mono - its more efficient/flexible)  - there are plenty of targets that fit a small chip so you can keep costs down. 
  • Imaging software (SGPro/NINA etc) - if you don't have software control you will now star to need it.
  • Guiding - Guide camera + use the finder scope that probably came with the scope.  PHD2 software
  • Autofocuser - not vital but so much easier - nice to sit indoors whilst imaging :) 
  • Polar Alignment support (Polemaster or SharpCap etc) - Best non essential item I bought - I never have to look though a polar scope again - all done in a few minutes
  • Ha OIII SII filters (why you bought a 7 position wheel for LRGB earlier)
  • PixInsight for processing images and stacking
  • OAG - using same guide camera
  • Bigger mount/Scope/full frame cooled camera/observatory :o

Lots of choice in hardware and software, I've mentioned what I use but lots of alternatives. You will ultimately want to use PixInsight but personally I think its a big learning curve with everything else when you are starting and Star Tools is very good for LRGB processing, less so with NB. (I can produce stunning LRBG images in Star Tools in 20 minutes - takes me all day to do the same in PI - but eventually it becomes limiting)

So, have a plan, short and medium term, do one thing at a time, lots a baby steps because you will change your plan as you progress and gain experience. 

Hope this helps, there are few right or wrong answers, good luck with whatever you do!

 

 

Wow! Thank you so much for the informative reply. I understand every point you make and its hard to disagree with them. For now, my budget is basically nil, so I have decided to sell my XT8 and all the EP's and filters and invest in just a mount. I definitely plan on buying a scope to image through in the future but for now, i will be happy with my DSLR. I also understand about cooled cameras, many people have suggested that route, but i don't want to buy a low end version when i do get one. So, assuming my work picks up in 2021 after a very dry 2020, I will save up for a cooled high end one like yours. My climb up the AP ladder is going to be very very gradual. 

Funny you mention how expensive AP is, while browsing FirstLightOptics for a mount, I saw one that costs £22,000!  I mean, it can carry more than my wife weighs, but still...crazy.  And here is me with my little Star Adventurer Mini LOLOL...not complaining, i achieved 1000x more with my setup than i anticipated. 

The consensus so far in this thread seems to be that the mount is great. Thank you all for the replies and advice, i seriously appreciate it all. 

 

 

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6 hours ago, kirkster501 said:

HEQ5.  Fabulous mount.  Was my first GEM mount and loved it.  Loads come up used on here and on ABS.

Yes, it seems like i wont regret getting it. 👍

 

Cheers

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