First Time Telescope Purchase Question?

[hardworkinpd]

Hello! I am looking to purchase an inexpensive telescope. I would like something that can be operated without having to have to go thru a smartphone All the time. I would like something that can pick up drones off in the distance  to being able to looking at planets. I do know and watch with the naked eye Jupiter, Saturn, Mars and Venus also saw the last comet at dusk from my spot in Texas. What are you guys and gal recommendations? Thanks! 

[laudropb]

Hello and a warm welcome to the SGL. What is your budget ?

[RT65CB-SWL]

Hi @hardworkinpd and welcome to SGL.

Can you give in indication to your budget? There are good 'scopes and there are bad 'scopes.

The good... I would go for something like a Maksutov. They take a bit of getting used to if you have never used one before.
They have long focal lengths, but narrow field of view. Below are a couple of images of my 're-modded' Meade ETX105.

    

A good telescope is not a toy. It is a precision instrument. If treated well, it will last a lifetime.
Below is an image of my 70mm refractor. I purchased it in mid/late1998. I still use it!

 

The bad... smaller cheap/inexpensive 'scopes have short focal lengths, small objective elements, do suffer from what is called chromatic aberration - this is a colour fringing around the disc of the object you are viewing and particular when viewing bright targets in the dark; i.e. Moon, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn); it is the last thing you need to ruin your dark adapted eyes.

My advice would be...

• visit a local astronomy club/society and ask members/see what is available
• visit a 'bricks & mortar' outlet - (not a department store).
• go online to a dedicated astro-re-seller - i.e. https://www.firstlightoptics.com/beginner-telescopes.html - (sponsors of SGL).
• don't buy online from well known auction sites or warehouse emporiums, unless you know what you are looking at - (not saying that all auction site/warehouse emporium re-sellers are bad, but there a few). 

Edited September 19, 2020 by Philip R

[Starwatcher2001]

Hi, and welcome aboard.

The best "bang for your buck", without technology is probably a Dobsonion telescope. That's a simple design using a tube with mirrors (first proposed by Sir Isaac Newton), using a simple mount. An outlay of a couple of hundred quid could get you a basic telescope with a couple of eyepieces (which provides the magnification) and let you see the planets, and a whole host of other wonderful things. But like any hobby, if the bug bites you, it can get quite expensive.

Consider reading the following wonderful thead, which will give you some realistic idea about the things you might see.

https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/196278-what-can-i-expect-to-see/

All the best,

Mark

 

Edited September 17, 2020 by Starwatcher2001

[Dave Lloyd]

Hi there and welcome. 

[Alan64]

7 hours ago, hardworkinpd said:

Hello! I am looking to purchase an inexpensive telescope. I would like something that can be operated without having to have to go thru a smartphone All the time. I would like something that can pick up drones off in the distance  to being able to looking at planets. I do know and watch with the naked eye Jupiter, Saturn, Mars and Venus also saw the last comet at dusk from my spot in Texas. What are you guys and gal recommendations? Thanks! 

Hi from Mississippi...

The term "inexpensive" would seem to exclude the Cassegrains, save a 90mm Maksutov perhaps.  That leaves refractors and Newtonians, the "ancient", tried and true designs.  But a Newtonian is not suitable for daytime/terrestrial use; birds in trees, ships at sea, and drones, as the subjects would appear upside-down.  That leaves refractors.  This refractor, an 80mm f/8 achromat, is versatile for observing at low to high powers.  For the higher powers, where the planets become interesting, a 2x or even a 3x barlow would be required...

https://explorescientificusa.com/collections/firstlight/products/fl-ar80640tn

The telescope comes with an erect-image diagonal suitable for daytime/terrestrial use.  At night however, for the Moon, the planets and beyond, a star-diagonal is best; for example...

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/201981-REG/Celestron_94115_A_Star_Diagonal_1_25.html/?ap=y&ap=y&smp=y&smp=y&lsft=BI%3A514&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIvpPs4Lzx6wIVkYbACh0Okw-YEAQYASABEgJ5jPD_BwE

If you choose a refractor with an even longer tube, it would excel at the medium-to-high powers, day or night; for example...

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1248235-REG/celestron_22402_inspire_80az_80mm_f_11_3.html

A star-diagonal may be desired for that one as well.

This is the Celestron C90 Maksutov...

https://www.opticsplanet.com/celestron-90mm-maksutov-spotting-scope-package-52268-op-90mm-spotting-scope-with-trip.html

There is a waiting-period associated with that one.

A relation got one of those a couple of years ago, and from that very vendor as it came with a photo-tripod.  They didn't get it for astronomy however, but for observing targets during the day, only.  I used it at night a couple of times.  The Moon looks great through it, and I assume the planets would as well.  During the day, if the drones are a considerable distance away, then it just might be the one for you...

A Maksutov is the closest a mirrored telescope may come to a long-focus refractor.  Indeed, the Celestron C90 simulates an 80mm f/16 achromat, at best.

Oh, and it, too, could use a star-diagonal, and for use at night.

Edited September 18, 2020 by Alan64

[Louis D]

Given the tight supply constraints on new telescopes and mounts right now, you'll probably have to start out seeing what's available from various dealers such as Astronomics up in Norman, OK.  I know that would just kill a true Texan to buy from a Sooner retailer, though. 😄 They do sponsor Cloudy Nights forums like FLO sponsors SGL here.  There's also Agena Astro, OPT Telescopes, Orion, Skies Unlimited, High Point Scientific, and several others.  I would avoid the NYC mega-retailers because telescopes are just a side business for them, and they have very limited expertise with them.

For what you want to look at, a computerized mount might just get in the way.  You would probably want to stick with an alt-az (up-down/left-right) mount for whatever telescope you end up purchasing.  I would avoid a fast (short/low f-ratio) achromatic refractor.  They generally have loads of color fringing and spherical aberration.  A slow (long/high f-ratio) achromat can become a bit unwieldy for terrestrial use.  A smallish Mak or SCT might suit your needs well.

Really, it comes down to your budget, storage room, ability to transport, observing site restrictions, etc.  Ideally, a fast 4" apochromatic refractor might serve you well, but might also be too expensive.

Edited September 18, 2020 by Louis D

[hardworkinpd]

8 hours ago, laudropb said:

Hello and a warm welcome to the SGL. What is your budget ?

Well, I'd like to get away with spending $200.00 but I would still feel comfortable spending $400. I know, that's not going to get much if any quality because I have priced some thru Google, but it's all French to me. Since the lock down I've been looking up a lot At Night. I live 10 miles from the US/Mex Border  and there is A lot of activity in the night sky. A lot of helicopters for sure but also some stationary lights maybe at 5000 ft. But I also like looking at comets, I have seen 3 in my life.  I have looked at wildfires on a mountain before thru a neighbor's telescope years ago. 
Also I don't want to get something that's going to take hours and hours of assembly and learning how to program something before I can use it.

Thanks For All Your Guys Help!

[Miguel1983]

Hi and welcome,

for me this is a winner if you're just starting with astronomy, it's slightly over your budget, but the optics are great, it's compact and it has goto, if you're unfamiliar with the night sky that is a BIG plus.

I started with a classic 10" dobsonian, but when you don't now where is what it can get frustrating, so the second scope i bought was this one, i still have it, and for it's size you can look up a lot of objects.

The only negative about this scope is the tripod, that needs to be replaced with a beefier one, and i can also recommend buying a handcontroller in time.

Good luck !

[Alan64]

15 hours ago, hardworkinpd said:

Well, I'd like to get away with spending $200.00 but I would still feel comfortable spending $400. I know, that's not going to get much if any quality because I have priced some thru Google, but it's all French to me. Since the lock down I've been looking up a lot At Night. I live 10 miles from the US/Mex Border  and there is A lot of activity in the night sky. A lot of helicopters for sure but also some stationary lights maybe at 5000 ft. But I also like looking at comets, I have seen 3 in my life.  I have looked at wildfires on a mountain before thru a neighbor's telescope years ago. 
Also I don't want to get something that's going to take hours and hours of assembly and learning how to program something before I can use it.

Thanks For All Your Guys Help!

Did you like the type of telescope that your neighbour had?  

A refractor or a Maksutov sounds like what you need.  You may be wanting the largest aperture for the outlay of either of those two designs, I expect.

Comets are found, and discovered for the first time, in the hunting for them, as they tend to be a bit on the dim side.  You need a low-power, wider view for that.  Hence, comets require a larger, shorter Newtonian, or a larger, shorter refractor, ideally; but most any shorter telescope among those two designs will do.

I got this 5"/127mm Maksutov a year or two ago...

https://explorescientificusa.com/collections/maksutov-cassegrain/products/fl-mc1271900tn

But it wouldn't be so much for hunting comets.  It's like a microscope, but for high-powered views of the night sky, and distant land-targets during the day.  Maksutovs require acclimation, to the outdoor conditions, and before using them; 30 minutes to an hour.  Some store them outdoors, protected of course, so as to be ready to go when they are.  Sometimes, they might require collimation.

It would also need a large finder-scope, to help the telescope see well, to find things, although the included red-dot finder will work at first.

This would be a fun refractor, albeit at 80mm, but it would need eyepieces, a diagonal, maybe a finder, or a low-power eyepiece to enable the telescope to act as its own finder, and a mount to get it up off of the ground...

https://www.astronomics.com/astro-tech-at80ed-3-1-f-7-ed-refractor-ota.html?___SID=U

[maw lod qan]

I spent about $250 for my 8" OTA reflector,  less the Amazon discount. No finder scope, no mount, no eyepieces.

I built my own base, then bought eyepieces and a finder scope.

Now, I have more money in eyepieces than the scope.

But what I've seen with that scope makes me smile!

Your choices are almost limitless.

[hardworkinpd]

Ok I'm back!

Life is getting in the way so I had to do something cautious and got this on order:  Orion SpaceProbe II 76mm Altazimuth Reflector Telescope. I had to do something or I might not have done anything at all! My neighbors are going to think I'm nuts standing out in the middle of the street at 2am in my worn out pajamas looking at the sky. There is a lot of surveillance equipment up in the sky around me. I hope Homeland Security doesn't sent a ground unit to check me out. I know the helicopter guys have seen me looking at them with my Kmart binoculars.  Now where's my aluminum foil beanie........

[Alan64]

7 minutes ago, hardworkinpd said:

Ok I'm back!

Life is getting in the way so I had to do something cautious and got this on order:  Orion SpaceProbe II 76mm Altazimuth Reflector Telescope. I had to do something or I might not have done anything at all! My neighbors are going to think I'm nuts standing out in the middle of the street at 2am in my worn out pajamas looking at the sky. There is a lot of surveillance equipment up in the sky around me. I hope Homeland Security doesn't sent a ground unit to check me out. I know the helicopter guys have seen me looking at them with my Kmart binoculars.  Now where's my aluminum foil beanie........

This kit... https://www.telescope.com/Orion-SpaceProbe-II-76mm-Altazimuth-Reflector-Telescope/p/117100.uts

I must say, that's not a bad choice, not at all, and for a first time.  Yesterday, I was looking at the Celestron version, but it's been discontinued.  What a coincidence.  That one will simulate the performance of a longer-focus 60mm, or perhaps even a 70mm refractor(achromat), like this one...

https://www.telescope.com/Orion/Orion-Observer-II-70mm-Altazimuth-Refractor-Telescope/rc/2160/p/117098.uts  

In addition, that pesky secondary-mirror should be small enough so as not to muck things up.  I have this larger sibling to that one, a 114mm f/8...

You can see how small the obstruction is, which results in sharper and more contrasty images.  The single stalk supporting the mirror is also less intrusive.

Again, the views are upside-down through Newtonians(reflectors), but when used to observe that celestial it doesn't matter.

Enjoy, and best of luck.

[hardworkinpd]

Is there an adapter  for this unit so images  Won't be upside down? Or is there a telescope in the $100 range that will give me a rightside up image? Thanks!

 

[nfotis]

My only experience with telescopes is the above mentioned Maksutov 127 (I got the -used- tube only, then mounted it on a photographic tripod).  Lots of fun, but it takes some effort to hunt the moon and the planets by rotating the tripod head.

With an 7-8mm eyepiece it gives nice planetary views.

Later, I bought a used HEQ5 mount (overkill for it, but I wish to try my hand into astrophotography as well).

The Mak includes a diagonal, which corrects the view orientation, I suppose that a Newtonian scope like the one you ordered corrects it by default?

Enjoy, and welcome to the forum,

N.F.

[Alan64]

2 hours ago, hardworkinpd said:

Is there an adapter  for this unit so images  Won't be upside down? Or is there a telescope in the $100 range that will give me a rightside up image? Thanks!

 

The ones for Newtonians are hard to come by, and are a bit long.  You'd have to pull your eye back a bit to look through it and the eyepiece inserted into it.

Yes, I had listed the one in my last post that will easily allow for right-side up images...

https://www.telescope.com/Orion/Orion-Observer-II-70mm-Altazimuth-Refractor-Telescope/rc/2160/p/117098.uts

It's at the same price as the reflector kit.  I think you might find it easier to use.  It does, however, come with a star-diagonal already, and for that in the night sky, the Moon and all.

But, you would need an Amici, erect-image diagonal for right-side up viewing... https://agenaastro.com/meade-928-1-25-45-erect-image-diagonal-prism.html ...and with free shipping.  The Orion version, and just like it, would be twice as much with their shipping fee.

This Meade 70mm refractor kit, just like the Orion, comes with an Amici, erect-image diagonal already...

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1061429-REG/meade_209003_infinity_70mm_altazimuth_refractor.html

You can use the diagonal that comes with the kit for both night and day, but it is angled at 90° instead of 45°, and for objects higher up, day and night.  Later, you can get a star-diagonal for the brighter planets; Mars for example during this time.  A star-diagonal allows for wider views, particularly at the lower powers...

The Amici, erect-image diagonal within that image is angled at 90° as well, just like the one that comes with the Meade refractor kit.

Note the sizes of the ports through which light travels.  Most all Amici, erect-image diagonals have smaller ports.

Here's a 45° Amici, erect-image diagonal compared to a star-diagonal...

The 45° angle makes it more comfortable when viewing objects closer to the ground; from the ground to about halfway up the sky.

When you're ready for a better star-diagonal, and for that celestial... https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/201981-REG/Celestron_94115_A_Star_Diagonal_1_25.html

That's my own Celestron star-prism diagonal within those images.  You can use it during the day or night for terrestrial objects.  They won't be upside down, but they'll be reversed laterally, like a mirrored-image.

Edited September 19, 2020 by Alan64

[hardworkinpd]

Ok, I talked to Rich at Orion he said to try the Orion GoScope III 70mm Refractor Travel Telescope. It shows objects Right Side up. I realize this scope is more for looking at earthly stuff but I gotta start somewhere. Thanks Everybody! I do have this site bookmarked! ETA for my scope is the 29th...

[Alan64]

1 hour ago, hardworkinpd said:

Ok, I talked to Rich at Orion he said to try the Orion GoScope III 70mm Refractor Travel Telescope. It shows objects Right Side up. I realize this scope is more for looking at earthly stuff but I gotta start somewhere. Thanks Everybody! I do have this site bookmarked! ETA for my scope is the 29th...

The telescope will also be good for low-power, wide-field views of the dimmer, deep-sky objects; if you get a star-diagonal for it in future.  The Moon may look alright through it, too; but for the planets, not as well as they would otherwise. 

Enjoy, and best of luck.

Oh, by the by, I have this 70mm f/4.3 achromat...

It's even shorter.  I plan on making a finder-scope out of it for my Maksutov.  It's going to need it.

Edited September 20, 2020 by Alan64

[hardworkinpd]

Gosh, watching YouTube videos on Telescopes while waiting for my little scope to arrive to checkout aerial Homeland Security devices has made me  want something a lot Bigger. I now have an itch to see Saturn's rings! Since the Shut Down I've  gotten to know Jupiter, Saturn and Mars movement fairly well with my unaided eye. Venus too if I'm up that early. All this started with me wanting to see what exactly the surveillance equipment is.  Vehicles intrigue me.  

[AstroMuni]

On 17/09/2020 at 19:20, hardworkinpd said:

I would like something that can pick up drones off in the distance 

If you are looking for something to view objects that move around quickly like drones, helicopters - you are better off getting a pair of binoculars. Suggest something like a 50x10 (thats aperature of 50mm and magnification of 10x). You can get more powerful ones specially built for astronomical objects with 20x etc. but you would need a tripod to keep them steady.

For the planets you need the higher magnification that is possible only with telescopes. Otherwise you wont get to see the details that you would expect.

Good luck

[hardworkinpd]

20 hours ago, AstroMuni said:

If you are looking for something to view objects that move around quickly like drones, helicopters - you are better off getting a pair of binoculars. Suggest something like a 50x10 (thats aperature of 50mm and magnification of 10x). You can get more powerful ones specially built for astronomical objects with 20x etc. but you would need a tripod to keep them steady.

For the planets you need the higher magnification that is possible only with telescopes. Otherwise you wont get to see the details that you would expect.

Good luck

Yeah, I'm kind of finding that out. But hey, I did see the moons of Jupiter for the first time, and the roundness of Mars...........I eventually will need a better scope And some Good binoculars ........

[Louis D]

On 19/09/2020 at 18:56, Alan64 said:

The telescope will also be good for low-power, wide-field views of the dimmer, deep-sky objects; if you get a star-diagonal for it in future.  The Moon may look alright through it, too; but for the planets, not as well as they would otherwise. 

Enjoy, and best of luck.

Oh, by the by, I have this 70mm f/4.3 achromat...

It's even shorter.  I plan on making a finder-scope out of it for my Maksutov.  It's going to need it.

Did something similar with a $25 ebay 70-300.  I had to remove a 35mm aperture stop behind the objective, remove the focuser, remove the objective lens cell, paint the interior of the tube flat black, put the lens cell back on, fashion a 2" drawtube focuser out of PVC plumbing parts and thumb screws I had lying around from other projects, paint its interior flat black as well, attach it to where the focuser used to be, put a 6" vixen dovetail on it I had lying around, and then put a 2" diagonal in it with a TSFLAT2 on its nose piece along with a widest field 30mm to 40mm eyepiece.  Once I put about $500 of quality equipment around it and several hours of work, that 70mm achromat gives pretty nice wide field views for a $25 ebay special. 😆

[Alan64]

2 hours ago, Louis D said:

Did something similar with a $25 ebay 70-300.  I had to remove a 35mm aperture stop behind the objective, remove the focuser, remove the objective lens cell, paint the interior of the tube flat black, put the lens cell back on, fashion a 2" drawtube focuser out of PVC plumbing parts and thumb screws I had lying around from other projects, paint its interior flat black as well, attach it to where the focuser used to be, put a 6" vixen dovetail on it I had lying around, and then put a 2" diagonal in it with a TSFLAT2 on its nose piece along with a widest field 30mm to 40mm eyepiece.  Once I put about $500 of quality equipment around it and several hours of work, that 70mm achromat gives pretty nice wide field views for a $25 ebay special. 😆

So far I've removed the tube's baffle, and shortened the draw-tube's "sleeve" a bit...

I've also shortened the draw-tube.  This is as far as it will enter into the telescope...

I can now see the doublet in toto...

The testing of a wide range of eyepieces at focus, including with barlows, enabled me to determine exactly by how much I could shorten the draw-tube.

After I complete those aspects, I will then do the usual, and blacken and flock it within an inch of its life.

I saw those on eBay, too, but I wanted to ensure that I would not receive one with a .965" focusser, or with a plastic doublet.  To wit, the Barska is the "cream of the crop", albeit in so far as it may.

As it arrives, it is, effectively, a 30mm f/10 achromat.  I did not know this at the time.  Thank goodness for Gore's "invention".

Edited September 26, 2020 by Alan64

[cletrac1922]

On 18/09/2020 at 04:20, hardworkinpd said:

Hello! I am looking to purchase an inexpensive telescope. I would like something that can be operated without having to have to go thru a smartphone All the time. I would like something that can pick up drones off in the distance  to being able to looking at planets. I do know and watch with the naked eye Jupiter, Saturn, Mars and Venus also saw the last comet at dusk from my spot in Texas. What are you guys and gal recommendations? Thanks! 

 

First of all welcome from across the ditch, Pacific Ocean

For pure optical viewing, you cannot go pass a Skywatcher 8'' or 10'' flex Dob

Very easy to set up, and just aim and point

I also have a right angle finderscope on mine, saves having to lay on the ground, when attempting to spot something directly overhead

As the base is made of chip board construction, place on a small waterproof tarp, to prevent moisture in the ground damaging the base unit

Attached pic is of my 10'' flex Dob taken at a club viewing night late last year

The Dob come with both a 1.25'' 10mm and 25mm eyepiece

I use 15mm and 17mm eyepieces for viewing planets, and other DSO

The 25mm is ideal for observing the moon

John

 

 

[Alan64]

It's the focal-length of a telescope that determines the range of magnifications by which one observes.  That short 70mm achromat of my own, at 300mm, would require the purchase of a 3x-barlow to observe the planets; to see them larger and detailed, albeit still small they would appear.  But given the brightness of same, the chromatic-aberration of the 70mm's fast-doublet would soften and even blur the images; not to mention the false-colour seen...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WANNqr-vcx0

I would not need to buy a barlow at all for this 70mm achromat... https://www.highpointscientific.com/meade-polaris-70-mm-german-equatorial-refractor-telescope-216001

It has a longer focal-length, 900mm, at f/13; the longer the better, which makes the planets appear oh so near, yet oh so far away; much more easily, more sharply, and with little to no false-colour to be seen.