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Expensive mounts - The good, the bad and the ugly?


lrt75914

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I'm toying with the idea of buying a new mount in the 4k€ to 5k€.  I am looking for a mount that is
still portable enough for me to schlepp it to a dark site. Maintenance should be as easy as possible, setup
straight forward and guiding as easy as it possibly can be. I have had major issues with a Chinese made
mount so I'm trying to stick to western manufactures for now.  After some research I have narrowed the list
down to the following three mounts:

Vixen AXJ
Losmandy G-11t
Avalon LFR

Of the three choices I am most impressed by the G11 - I like the modular design and the imaging capacity is
good enough to even support an EdgeHD 11. However, I've come across a number of bad reviews for the
G11 'family'. Apparently they have problems with excessive backlash and costumer support seems
to be spotty at best. There are people on CN that praise Losmandy as second only to AP, 10Micron and the
like. However the bad experiences I've found are numerous enough to give me pause.

What do you guys think? Is the G-11t the best option out of the bunch? Would you chose a different mount?
Is captain Picard the best Star Trek captain? Help me my friends!

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You will find that any of those mounts you listed will carry a 12.7kg payload such as an Edge-11, and they will all give you a similar experience for tracking, guiding, pointing accuracy.

I understand you are concerned about reliability. Though personally I do not think that one bad experience should rule-out half the world's telescope mounts. :) On the internet, everyone publicises the problems they have and repeats third-hand stories no matter how old they are. But nobody ever posts to say that their equipment simply works as it should. So if you believed even a small amount of the stuff that is posted, you'd never buy anything.

However, what I would say is that much of your bad experience would be due to the company you bought from, as much as the manufacturer. So as well as considering what mount to buy, an equally important point would be the reputation of the seller. Using that principle myself, there is one brand you have mentioned that gave me a terrible time. Simply because once the dealer had my money they simply weren't interested in providing assistance. But that was in England and it was long ago!

The other aspects I would give consideration to would be how any of those mounts will integrate with your other equipment? Can you use the mount control software you prefer? Is there an active user community? Are you tied in to buying expensive accessories from just a single source with a limited range?

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I have an Avalon LFR and it has been superb.

I currently use it with my mobile dual scope imaging setup which weighs around 18kg and it doesn't seem to cause it any issues. It has been reliable and tracking is good, it needs to be guided though (due to its design). I would definitely call it portable in size and weight. The only slight negative I have noticed is that it is susceptible to wind.

Hope this helps!

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Have you had a look at the Panther TTS160 mount as an alternative, based on your preferences?  An alternative would be to see if there are any second hand Mach1GTO.  The initial views of the E.fric mount also seem to be favourable.

The disadvantage of US mounts is that repairs will generally mean a return which can be daunting given the amount of paperwork needed.  Staying within the EU has advantages in that any repair in the internal market should be relatively straightforward.

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They is quite a lot of noise around the G11 on CN, a lot of it around the service received from owners. As usual do we get the full story?
I do not have an AXJ, but the model below the SXP2, which is a smaller version, same head part, belt drive, but different motors. Build is superb and very quite in use compared to over belt modified mounts so I do not get sent to the end of the garden. I chose it over the G11 as a lot lighter, while only giving up a little payload. Vixen are conservative with their payload estimates. The star book is handy, and the moon map useful as well, not found an app that mimics its functionality. Cannot tell you about the service offered by Vixen as I’ve not had to use it.
I did look at the Avalon, however didn’t  need to the extra weight capacity. At the same time the lack of having to perform a meridian flip is attractive.

Edited by Deadlake
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On 22/09/2020 at 19:08, andrew s said:

Sorry I have no experience with them. I have had Paramount ME and MEII both of which were/are excellent. 

Regards Andrew 

They do look nice but

On 22/09/2020 at 19:54, pete_l said:

...

I understand you are concerned about reliability. Though personally I do not think that one bad experience should rule-out half the world's telescope mounts. :) On the internet, everyone publicises the problems they have and repeats third-hand stories no matter how old they are. But nobody ever posts to say that their equipment simply works as it should. So if you believed even a small amount of the stuff that is posted, you'd never buy anything.

...

The internet really is a wonderful place for a pessimist like me. 😁 The reason why I'm a bit skeptical towards the Losmandy mounts is that their worm gears are not belt driven and the spring loading mechanism is only fitted to the dec axis - at least for the G11-T. They may work well if maintained and adjusted properly. However, I don't have the time to constantly fiddle around with my mount. I just want a setup that's portable and easy to maintain.

On 22/09/2020 at 20:35, AngryDonkey said:

I have an Avalon LFR and it has been superb.

I currently use it with my mobile dual scope imaging setup which weighs around 18kg and it doesn't seem to cause it any issues. It has been reliable and tracking is good, it needs to be guided though (due to its design). I would definitely call it portable in size and weight. The only slight negative I have noticed is that it is susceptible to wind.

Hope this helps!

How pronounced is that issue? Does a breeze already affect the tracking performance or is only a strong wind noticeable? Would a tent observatory alleviate this problem?

On 22/09/2020 at 21:24, Whirlwind said:

Have you had a look at the Panther TTS160 mount as an alternative, based on your preferences?  An alternative would be to see if there are any second hand Mach1GTO.  The initial views of the E.fric mount also seem to be favourable.

The disadvantage of US mounts is that repairs will generally mean a return which can be daunting given the amount of paperwork needed.  Staying within the EU has advantages in that any repair in the internal market should be relatively straightforward.

I have not heard of either of those mounts -  The Panther and E.fric mount that is. Might have to do a little digging and see whats what.

On 22/09/2020 at 21:40, jambouk said:

The new EQ8 is lovely but I wouldn’t describe it as portable. It is portable, but the mount alone weights 80mg (tripod, mount and counter weights).

I have seen a video of someone tearing down an EQ8 on youtube. That and the shoddy build quality of my AZ-EQ 6 does not give me any confidence
in those high end skywatcher mounts.

On 23/09/2020 at 22:10, Deadlake said:

They is quite a lot of noise around the G11 on CN, a lot of it around the service received from owners. As usual do we get the full story?
I do not have an AXJ, but the model below the SXP2, which is a smaller version, same head part, belt drive, but different motors. Build is superb and very quite in use compared to over belt modified mounts so I do not get sent to the end of the garden. I chose it over the G11 as a lot lighter, while only giving up a little payload. Vixen are conservative with their payload estimates. The star book is handy, and the moon map useful as well, not found an app that mimics its functionality. Cannot tell you about the service offered by Vixen as I’ve not had to use it.
I did look at the Avalon, however didn’t  need to the extra weight capacity. At the same time the lack of having to perform a meridian flip is attractive.

I don't know how useful the starbook would be fore me since I usually use a dedicated PC to control my mount/telescope. What telescope are you using with your vixen mount?

23 hours ago, Neil27 said:

Have you considered this mount, someone on this forum is using it as a portable set up.

http://www.geminitelescope.com/efric-friction-drive-mount-german-equatorial/

I haven't heard of it until today but it does look very intriguing. Kind of like a portable Mesu 200. Do you know who that person is?

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Yes it is this post - looks a great mount with the flexibility of being able to use whatever controller you wish, Sitech, Onstep, or their own pulsar controller from Gemini.

Having spoken to Andras the owner he is courteous and very knowledgable and helpful.
Good luck in your search.

 

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If you can find a premium mount that you like grab it !!!!   You will be glad you did.

Getting a premium mount has been one of the best things I have done to improve my kit.  My AP900 just takes the mount and tracking out of the equation.  It carries anything I put on it and tracks great.  I wish I had been able to get one many years earlier.  The precision of the mount is great and that is why  they command the price.  As massive as it is it breaks down into manageable parts for portable operations.

John Love
CCD-Freak
WD5IKX

Hypergraph AP900-5.JPG

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  • 3 months later...

I did talk to someone at CN who just took delivery of an E.Fric mount and had his share
of troubles with the thing and I heard plenty of worrying stories about losmandy mounts.
So, after quite a lot of soul searching, I finally decided to go with a linear fast reverse mount
from Avalon Instruments. I placed my order for a matt black version with telescope service
last November and finally received my first premium mount in the first week of December.

However, things didn't quite turn out the way I hoped or planned. I was rather smitten with the
mount the first time I opened the box. I did notice quite a few very visible imperfections in the
black finish that did not meet my expectations for such an expensive piece of kit. Since this is
a telescope mount and not a showroom piece I didn't pay those small details to much attention
and assembled my newest acquisition in my living room. Predictably the weather didn't allow
for any actual testing but I wanted to see how well the mount would work with my imaging setup.

Yet, while trying to balance my esprit 100 on the mount, I ran into my first big problem.
The telescope could be rotated around the declination axis as long as the counterweight shaft pointed
to the east.  Point the cws to the west, however, and the declination axis would completely freeze up.
Avalon Instruments did suggest that I disassemble the clutch for the declination axis and file it down
until this problem would go away. Since this is a new mount and the problem itself, at least from my
point of view, didn't seem to be related to tight tolerances in the clutch assembly, I decided to
return the mount and try my luck with the standard edition. But the standard edition that I got
was completely dusty, the polar scope was dirty, the clutch in the dec axis was already somewhat
loose and the mount would not work with sgp at all.

I am really deflated after this experience. The other two options that I have at my disposal are a
mesu or astro physics mount. The mesu mount uses brushed motors which I am not really
fond of and an astro physics mount costs more than I make in a year. I know that there's always
the option of buying a used mount but there aren't any used mounts that I could find close to where
I live.

 

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9 hours ago, lrt75914 said:

I did talk to someone at CN who just took delivery of an E.Fric mount and had his share
of troubles with the thing and I heard plenty of worrying stories about losmandy mounts.
 

 

I’m curious to know what the issues are with the EFric mount, as this is a mount I am very interested in and would appreciate you sharing them. After speaking to several owners myself they comment on amazing guiding / tracking and often used as a portable set up? The mount is ‘quirky’ to look at and uses non proprietary controllers so may not be to everyone’s tastes. 

The Mesu mount often venerated on this forum as the ‘one to buy’ in the 50kg capacity range, has had its fair share of problems and teething issues.

I hope you find something suitable for your needs.

Clear skies.

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2 hours ago, Neil27 said:

I’m curious to know what the issues are with the EFric mount, as this is a mount I am very interested in and would appreciate you sharing them. After speaking to several owners myself they comment on amazing guiding / tracking and often used as a portable set up? The mount is ‘quirky’ to look at and uses non proprietary controllers so may not be to everyone’s tastes. 

The Mesu mount often venerated on this forum as the ‘one to buy’ in the 50kg capacity range, has had its fair share of problems and teething issues.

I hope you find something suitable for your needs.

Clear skies.

Apparently, longer telescopes can potentially hit the RA drive housing, preventing you from imaging parts of the sky. The guy had to install longer risers under the saddle himself to alleviate this problem. The saddle clamps also don't have enough travel to accommodate dovetail bars that may not perfectly follow the losmandy design specification. Apart from all of that, there were a lot of problems with the tracking behaviour in the RA axis that were dismissed by GTD as user/software errors. However, it turned out that the RA motorization was faulty and the whole mount had to be sent back to Italy for quite a lot of money.

I know a lot of people swear by the mesu mounts and I have seen a lot of people produce stunning images with it. I just can't get past those brushed motors. I know that they don't go through a lot of revolutions during their expected lifetime but still...

 

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8 hours ago, lrt75914 said:

Apparently, longer telescopes can potentially hit the RA drive housing, preventing you from imaging parts of the sky. The guy had to install longer risers under the saddle himself to alleviate this problem. The saddle clamps also don't have enough travel to accommodate dovetail bars that may not perfectly follow the losmandy design specification. Apart from all of that, there were a lot of problems with the tracking behaviour in the RA axis that were dismissed by GTD as user/software errors. However, it turned out that the RA motorization was faulty and the whole mount had to be sent back to Italy for quite a lot of money.

 

Hi, yes I have followed the same thread on cloudy night. I believe the user bought a new saddle from another supplier. Regarding the RA motors, they have since been repaired by Andras, with the user now fully endorsing the mount as one he would recommend. One of the selling points for me is the 5 year warranty on the Gemini mount, which in this hobby is quite generous, bearing in mind the frequency we sometimes use our equipment.

Just to put the issues with the Gemini mount into context, in a previous life I owned a Paramount ME mount and the solidity, engineering quality and ease of use was sublime. Possibly 2 years into the ownership, I had 2 failed motherboards that I had to pay for and get shipped at my own cost from US to UK. I admit after the second failure I had a serious chat with the Bisque brothers and managed to negotiate a reduction in costs. However the conversations were always responded to very quickly and offers of video calls and phone calls was very welcome. I had my mount working within 2 weeks, so bravo SB.
My point is there are ‘teething issues’ with many products, I find it’s how the manufacturer or supplier deal with those issues and then respond.

I would certainly have no issue buying or recommending a Paramount, and hopefully the same can be validated for a Gemini mount as the feedback and quality of both products and customer service from either appears to be very good. IMHO of course 😊

Have you considered the MyT mount or perhaps the Mach 2, both very capable portable mounts. The MyT was on my list before the EFric popped into view.

Clear skies.

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5 hours ago, Neil27 said:

Hi, yes I have followed the same thread on cloudy night. I believe the user bought a new saddle from another supplier. Regarding the RA motors, they have since been repaired by Andras, with the user now fully endorsing the mount as one he would recommend. One of the selling points for me is the 5 year warranty on the Gemini mount, which in this hobby is quite generous, bearing in mind the frequency we sometimes use our equipment.

Just to put the issues with the Gemini mount into context, in a previous life I owned a Paramount ME mount and the solidity, engineering quality and ease of use was sublime. Possibly 2 years into the ownership, I had 2 failed motherboards that I had to pay for and get shipped at my own cost from US to UK. I admit after the second failure I had a serious chat with the Bisque brothers and managed to negotiate a reduction in costs. However the conversations were always responded to very quickly and offers of video calls and phone calls was very welcome. I had my mount working within 2 weeks, so bravo SB.
My point is there are ‘teething issues’ with many products, I find it’s how the manufacturer or supplier deal with those issues and then respond.

I would certainly have no issue buying or recommending a Paramount, and hopefully the same can be validated for a Gemini mount as the feedback and quality of both products and customer service from either appears to be very good. IMHO of course 😊

Have you considered the MyT mount or perhaps the Mach 2, both very capable portable mounts. The MyT was on my list before the EFric popped into view.

Clear skies.

 

The problem for me is that I no longer have the patience to deal with any teething issues. I understand that new products will always have kinks that need to be ironed out. But two dead motherboards within the first two years seems like a bit more than a kink to me - especially considering the price of the mount. I've spent the last 4 years trying to get the tracking on my Skywatcher AZ-EQ 6 up to an acceptable level - without success. I just need a mount that works right out of the box and that I don't have to keep tinkering with. There is also the somewhat more personal problem that I have incredible bad luck with everything I buy. I must have run over an old witch while driving home from work one night.

I have considered both the MyT and the Mach 2, but they are outrageously expensive. It's a purchase I can't really justify since I'll probably be laid off at the end of the year. At the end of the day, I may have to sell my astronomy equipment and just give up.
 

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A real shame that you had such trouble with your two Avalon Fast Linears as it is a great mount (when working as it should). Do you think that the problems with the second mount were down to the seller or Avalon (or did you buy direct)? What problems did you have with SGP? I've never had any issues with SGP (with the StarGo version of the linear). Maybe third time lucky?

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4 hours ago, AngryDonkey said:

A real shame that you had such trouble with your two Avalon Fast Linears as it is a great mount (when working as it should). Do you think that the problems with the second mount were down to the seller or Avalon (or did you buy direct)? ...

I have had a number of problems with Telescope Service over the years, so I will probably never order anything from them again.
However, they assured me that the mounts had never been opened before they were sent to me. Don't know if I should believe
them so I cannot really tell you who is at fault here. The issue with ordering another one is that Teleskop Service are the only
dealers that sell these mounts in Germany so I would have to order one directly from Avalon Instruments. With the issues I experienced
I'm not sure if I want to take that chance. I would have to pay for return shipment to Italy in case anything is wrong with the thing.

4 hours ago, AngryDonkey said:

... What problems did you have with SGP? I've never had any issues with SGP (with the StarGo version of the linear). Maybe third time lucky?

I have had a number of problems with SGP, but since so many people have used it successfully in conjunction with their Avalon mounts,
this may have been a simple case of Pebkac. Connecting the mount to my PC was really hit or miss. I tried different USB cables,
different PCS and reinstalling the USB drivers, but could never get a stable connection. When the mount did connect to my PC the RA and
DEC positions were not properly synced between the StarGo App and SGP. I tried to slew to a specific target but the mount would only move
a couple of decrees before aborting the operation with neither StarGo or SGP being 'on target'. However slewing back to the home position
worked as expected. At this point I was so fed up with the whole experience that I sent the mount back to the seller and requested my
money back.
 

3 hours ago, Froeng said:

I can only say my past experience With Vixen equipment has been excellent. Why not try the AXJ? It seems like a very well designed piece if engineering. The quality should be excellent...

I totally forgot about Vixen. I will look into it but first I need to check with my boss and see if there is anything I can do to keep my job.

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Since you live in Europe, it seems to me a better choice to buy an European mount than an American or Japanese one, not to mention Chinese...
I Have no idea about your financial situation of course, but 10 Micron from Italy makes absolutely top quality 'plug and play' mounts
I really believe they come second after direct drive mounts...
So if you are lucky and good enough to keep your job, maybe that is a possibility.

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On 15/01/2021 at 21:29, Neil27 said:

The Mesu mount often venerated on this forum as the ‘one to buy’ in the 50kg capacity range, has had its fair share of problems and teething issues.

Would you mind sharing the teething issues and problems you have read relating to the mark ii Mesu?

 

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On 16/01/2021 at 14:45, lrt75914 said:

The problem for me is that I no longer have the patience to deal with any teething issues.

I bought a Mark ii mesu 200 mount last Jan. I paid my £6k, stuck it on a pier, entered the correct parameters, and started using it.  Simple as that. I spent my time tuning my EQ6 with belts etc, for several years before that, but in the end I reached it’s capacity with my Epsilon 180. I now have the Epsilon and two other scopes and cameras mounted at the same time and still get better guiding. 

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