cleaning Baader Solution Or Isopropyl Alcohol?

[Dippy 25]

Baader optical wonder solution is practically Isopropyl alcohol. Instead of £12 for a 70mL of it, buy a 1000 mL of Isopropyl alcohol for £22 (before pandemic it was only £5). They have also smaller bottles which will be cheaper of course. The Baader solution and Isopropyl alcohol don’t remove the toughest of fungi on optics, only a few of the less deep set ones can be treated with them. I have used both for cleaning eyepieces and on certain stage of cleaning several 8 to 12 inch mirrors. They both worked identical. When applied through an optical cleaning fabric, they remove ( dissolve) fatty oils and fingerprints on optical surfaces. I had cleaned a 12 inch mirror once which for some unknown reason had ice cream stain on it (cleaning followed standard operation procedure for cleaning coated aluminised mirrors).

Edited September 11, 2020 by Dippy

[Philip R 2,358]

Isopropyl or isopropanol alcohol is also known as 'rubbing alcohol'. I am very... and would be very cautious... when using it on a glass or mirrored coated surface for optical use. I have used it and occasionally seen a few streaks where it has evaporated before wiping with a surgical/medical grade cotton wool, lens cloth or lens tissue, when removing stubborn stains. I have found when using that the Baader Optical Wonder fluid, a little goes along way, and I finish off with it, if I started my clean with isopropyl/isopropanol alcohol.

Just don't apply to much pressure to the 'pad' when cleaning the optical surfaces, etc., with whatever liquid solution you use.
Interesting to know how the ice-creamstain got there in the first place...  unless like me... you eat it 24/7...365.25 days of the year! 

Edited September 9, 2020 by Philip R

[johninderby 9,462]

+1 for the Baader Optical Wonder fluid. It simply works and I know it isn’t gping to harm the lens or objective that needs cleaning.

 

[John 33,636]

4 minutes ago, johninderby said:

+1 for the Baader Optical Wonder fluid. It simply works and I know it isn’t gping to harm the lens or objective that needs cleaning.

 

+2 for it. I've had a bottle and the micro fibre cloth for ages and they are still doing a great job.

Not an area that I'm interested in economizing in.

[johninderby 9,462]

Think I’m on my second bottle of the Baader fluid in about ten years.

[Doc 1,965]

I use Baader wonder fluid on lenses and Isopropyl alcohol on mirrors.                       

[Timebandit 2,245]

1 hour ago, Dippy said:

Baader optical wonder solution is practically Isopropyl alcohol. Instead of £12 for a 70mL of it, buy a 1000 mL of Isopropyl alcohol for £22 (before pandemic it was only £5). They have also smaller bottles which will be cheaper of course. The Baader solution and Isopropyl alcohol don’t remove the toughest of fungi on optics, only a few of the less deep set ones can be treated with them. I have used both for cleaning eyepieces and on certain stage of cleaning several 8 to 12 inch mirrors. They both worked identical. When applied through an optical cleaning fabric, they remove ( dissolve) fatty oils and fingerprints of n optical surfaces. I had cleaned a 12 inch mirror once which for some unknown reason had ice cream stain on it (cleaning followed standard operation procedure for cleaning coated aluminised mirrors).

 

If you wish to opt for cheap and cheerful solutions, then that is entirety up to you. But when there are many people on this site with very expensive refractor scopes worth thousands ,then I do not think spending £12 to use a specially designed high quality fluid  to clean your refractor lens or eyepiece correctly is false economy. And a bottle lasts a considerable time.  for Baader optical fluid 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ruud 3,254]

Baader's optical wonder is a solution of 1-propanol and alcohol. Nothing special really. Fantastic marketing though.

Isopropy alcohol is 2-propanol.

Propanol and alcohol are the magic ingredients that protect against fungus in Baader's wonder liquid. They kill spores.

[JeremyS 5,557]

9 minutes ago, Ruud said:

Baader's optical wonder is a solution of 1-propanol and alcohol. Nothing special really. Fantastic marketing though.

Isopropy alcohol is 2-propanol.

Propanol and alcohol are the magic ingredients that protect against fungus in Baader's wonder liquid. They kill spores.

Indeed, the Baader material safety data sheet says it contains 25% ethanol and 35% isopropanol. I presume the 40% rest is water. No mention of anything else like surfactants.

[Ruud 3,254]

Actually, isopropanol and isopropyl alcohol are 2-propanol. Wonder liquid has 1-propanol, which is more volatile, but really, it is just another solvent.

I once was stupid enough to buy a bottle of Baader's liquid. I was interested in its secret magic ingredients and looked up the data sheet that Jeremy links to. So I found out it's just ethanol and 1-propanol in water. Every active substance must be in the sheet (hospitals use the sheets for toxicology information, manufactures must make this information available).

So Baarder's miracle is that they sell two simple organic solvents in water for over €100 per litre.

The bottle is nice though. But the other day I bought an after-bite spray for mosquito bites. This came in a bottle that makes just as fine a spray as Baader's bottle. It cost €1 complete with after-bite liquid.

So what I did is pour out the after-bite liquid (into a different bottle). I rinsed the bottle and cleaned the nozzle with water several times, then I did the same once with alcohol and refilled the new bottle with 96% alcohol.

Total cost for the spray bottle and 96% alcohol: €2.25.

It's a nice spray bottle with a cap. It won't leak. In it is a fantastic cleaning solution. I can recommend it: It contains a potent  ingredient that protects against fungus.

[JeremyS 5,557]

25 minutes ago, Ruud said:

Actually, isopropanol and isopropyl alcohol are 2-propanol. Wonder liquid has 1-propanol,

Very true: I glanced at the MSDS too quickly.

26 minutes ago, Ruud said:

t's a nice spray bottle with a cap. It won't leak. In it is a fantastic cleaning solution. I can recommend it: It contains a potent  ingredient that protects against fungus.

Can I be your UK sales agent? 

[John 33,636]

40 minutes ago, Ruud said:

I once was stupid enough to buy a bottle of Baader's liquid....

 

That's pretty rude isn't it ?

Deliberately posting that in a thread where you know that others have made the choice of the Baader product ?

By all means make difference choices and explain your reasoning but have some respect for other fellow members choices here, as per the forum Code of Conduct. Implying that others are "stupid" is not in keeping with that.

Thanks.

 

 

[johnturley 293]

On 09/09/2020 at 18:54, Dippy said:

Baader optical wonder solution is practically Isopropyl alcohol. Instead of £12 for a 70mL of it, buy a 1000 mL of Isopropyl alcohol for £22 (before pandemic it was only £5). They have also smaller bottles which will be cheaper of course. The Baader solution and Isopropyl alcohol don’t remove the toughest of fungi on optics, only a few of the less deep set ones can be treated with them. I have used both for cleaning eyepieces and on certain stage of cleaning several 8 to 12 inch mirrors. They both worked identical. When applied through an optical cleaning fabric, they remove ( dissolve) fatty oils and fingerprints of n optical surfaces. I had cleaned a 12 inch mirror once which for some unknown reason had ice cream stain on it (cleaning followed standard operation procedure for cleaning coated aluminised mirrors).

One of the main differences is probably the degree of purity, solvents from cheap sources will probably contain significant levels of impurities which will leave deposits behind on optical surfaces.

I remember back to the days when I used to work in laboratory, 'Analar' (high purity) grade chemicals cost several times as much as the normal grade.

John 

Edited September 11, 2020 by johnturley

[JOC 7,789]

I don't have anything that really needs cleaning, but I must admit to an inbuilt resistance to waste cash on over-priced supremely marketted materials that can be purchased for a fraction of the price by buying generic equivalents (lots of medications come under that hat).  Thus, I would not buy the Baader Wonder fluid on principle as I believe that generic diluted in purified water, isopropyl alcohol would probably serve in exactly the same manner.  

However, just a point about the content of SDS sheets.  An SDS sheet is only OBLIGATED to list any chemical ingredients in a product which are themselves classed as 'hazardous' under EU definitions.  Thus, although it is probably the case that the missing %age content on the Baader wonder fluid IS pure water (that's what I tend to imagine it is myself), it doens't HAVE to be water - it could be any other ingredient not in itself deamed 'hazardous', so it might be an inert non-haz. natural additive, or something like sodium thiosulphate.  So just because there is missing percentage on an SDS sheet it need not be just water.

[Adam J 1,777]

Didn't we already discuss this in the thread about lens fungus? 

I will say what I said in that thread, in my experience pure Isopropyl is far too volatile resulting in it evaporating before it is able to break down a range of contaminants that you might find on an optical surface.  The Baader fluid is less volatile and I find that it gives you more time to work the surface and hence lift contaminants off the surface onto the cotton pad. 

Sure its more expensive but i see it as you are paying for a little research baader have performed to optimise the mix. Yes one ingredient will be pure water as it helps slow evaporation for example, but I don't feel cheated by that at all.  I have better thing to do with my time than trying save a few pounds by mixing my own cleaning fluid. 

Adam 

 

[Alien 13 7,272]

You can make up your own cleaning fluid with 99.999% isopropyl alcohol and distilled water but why bother considering its almost impossible to buy the distilled water bit....

Alan

[johninderby 9,462]

Basicly the Baader fluid works and a bottle lasts for years so just not worth my time to make my own and not knowing all that goes into it just the potentialy “dangerous” ingredients further complicates. it.

Edited September 10, 2020 by johninderby

[Ruud 3,254]

17 minutes ago, John said:

56 minutes ago, Ruud said:

I once was stupid enough to buy a bottle of Baader's liquid....

 

That's pretty rude isn't it ?

Deliberately posting that in a thread where you know that others have made the choice of the Baader product ?

By all means make difference choices and explain your reasoning but have some respect for other fellow members choices here, as per the forum Code of Conduct. Implying that others are "stupid" is not in keeping with that.

Thanks.

@John, I fell for Baader's suggestive advertising and feel stupid for it. Generally I am not stupid and I certainly do not thinks members here are stupid.

I mentioned the liquid before:

and:

and possibly elsewhere too.

So Baader's wonder is an overpriced product that does what it promises. At the same time I feel people should be warned against Baader's suggestive selling point that it contains two anti-fungal ingredients. Any alcohol kills spores.  Baader's wonder is just a mixture of two watered down alcohols: ethanol and propanol. 

I fell for it and wasted some money. I want to help others against doing the same. Like me, they may feel that they are buying a product with special additives that protect against and prevent lens fungus. They aren't.

They are just buying two watered down alcohols for a ridiculous price.

Is it so strange that I felt stupid for doing that?

 

[John 33,636]

Just now, Ruud said:

@John, I fell for Baader's suggestive advertising and feel stupid for it. Generally I am not stupid and I certainly do not thinks members here are stupid.

I mentioned the liquid before:

and:

and possibly elsewhere too.

So Baader's wonder is an overpriced product that does what it promises. At the same time I feel people should be warned against Baader's suggestive selling point that it contains two anti-fungal ingredients. Any alcohol kills spores.  Baader's wonder is just a mixture of two watered down alcohols: ethanol and propanol. 

I fell for it and wasted some money. I want to help others against doing the same. Like me, they may feel that they are buying a product with special additives that protect against and prevent lens fungus. They aren't.

They are just buying two watered down alcohols for a ridiculous price.

Is it so strange that I felt stupid for doing that?

 

Just don't imply that other peoples choices are stupid - OK ?

It's not much to ask is it ?

 

[Ruud 3,254]

3 minutes ago, John said:

Just don't imply that other peoples choices are stupid - OK ?

Of course. I'd never do that!

[johninderby 9,462]

It’s OK to politely disagree. No body minds that. Peoples opinions vary and their opinions should be respected even if  you don't agree..

Edited September 10, 2020 by johninderby

[Stu 30,346]

From my perspective I have very little knowledge about what goes into these things, and do not feel motivated to spend time finding out. As others have said, Baader have put something together that works very well and I don’t feel ripped off paying for their efforts.

If you know what you are doing and can source and mix pure components to make the same thing, all power to your elbow. Trouble is a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, and others who know less than you may source the wrong things and run into problems.

[Stardaze 233]

100ml of any cleaning fluid really should last years. I don't see how the cost of the wonder stuff is really going to break anyone. I have a large bottle of isopropanol that is older than all of my lenses and eye pieces 

Edited September 10, 2020 by Stardaze

[JOC 7,789]

Deionised water IS different from distilled, but I cannot imagine either damaging optical equipment.  DI water is often used for steam irons and topping up lead acid batteries and I imagine would be useful on optical equip. or for mixing with IPA https://www.amazon.co.uk/CarPlan-DIW250-De-Ionised-Water/dp/B00FRIH094/ref=sr_1_5?adgrpid=54722411738&dchild=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI19Ounpjf6wIVTOd3Ch2w_wUaEAAYASAAEgJk0vD_BwE&hvadid=259088749393&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9045038&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=9815806837557291122&hvtargid=kwd-306094015612&hydadcr=28150_1724812&keywords=water+for+irons&qid=1599761568&sr=8-5&tag=googhydr-21

[DaveL59 2,599]

Personally I've never bought the Baader fluid, I use a regular lens cleaning fluid for glasses and it works just fine. Have gone through it quite quickly tho so will need to order some in a few months. Then again I used it on my glasses and have overhauled a fair few pairs of binoculars over the past couple years. I tend to use Zeiss wipes now for my glasses (easier to carry a few in the work bag) or other optics that aren't too in need of a deeper treatment.

Edited September 10, 2020 by DaveL59