Newbie questions on polar alignment... and everything

[Leighkb]

Beginner here who is really struggling!  Apologies in advance if this is long!  I only began pointing my camera up about two months ago. I have a Canon T7i. Last week my Star Adventurer Pro arrived and the frustration began. I’ve watched countless videos and know what I’m “supposed” to do - but it seems to all go out the window when I’m fumbling in the dark. I realize these questions are probably silly, but I can’t seem to find an answer online.  I’ve only had three clear nights so far to practice and there’s been some improvement, but I’m way off!  A pole master and/or guiding is not in the budget right now.

 Polaris - tripod pointing north.  Level it properly.  Set altitude.  Look through and see so many stars and they look almost equally bright.  How do you know you’re on the correct star? Last night I went out at dusk (can’t see Polaris from my yard so I have to lug everything to a different location) and that helped tremendously, as it was the only star there.  But that’s not practical long term... can’t always head out that early.  Should I get a laser pointer? Any other tricks or tips?

PA - last night was the first time I had even marginal success.  With 0 up and 6 down, I  used an app to get the correct position of Polaris.  I was not perfect, but close, which was a huge improvement in itself for me! I set up my camera with a Rokinon 135mm lens, balanced it, moved it to roughly the position I wanted to shoot, checked my PA and it was slightly off so I readjusted.  Some time goes by and I’m noticing anything over 15 seconds has very noticeable trailing.  Polaris is way off when I look in the scope.  My axis is obviously turned to position the camera and I had no idea if I’m supposed to be repositioning Polaris to where it should be on a clock face - ignoring where the 0, 3, 6 and 9 are actually showing  - or to realign to where it would be in relation to the numbers.  I hope that makes sense! I ended up positioning Polaris where roughly 9 would be (as it was shown on the app by this time) and ignored that the number 9 was in a totally different position in the scope.  Still could not get any images over 15 seconds  without trailing.  I’m sure my polar alignment wasn’t perfect when I started - before it all went totally to hell - but I really thought I was close and should’ve been able to get longer exposures.  Any help or advice appreciated! It’s so frustrating when you go through your checklist and think everything was done correctly only to realize you screwed up bad somewhere. 
 

Balance - thoroughly understand and am able to properly balance my camera and counterweight. But I am certain that I was throwing my balance totally off when I would loosen the clutch underneath and rotate the actual camera to point in a certain direction. How do you compensate for that? The idea of moving everything back to “home” position and starting over can’t be right! Lol

 Anyone who stuck with me this long - thank you!!! This is completely new and overwhelming - yet very excited to learn. I don’t have the gear to get the amazing pics I see here, so trying to learn with what I do have before investing any more money.   Have recently purchased the tracker, ordered a new tripod and bought two Rokinon lenses. Hubby has had enough! Lol

Equipment - canon T7i, Star Adventurer Pro, relatively inexpensive tripod until the Star Adventurer one arrives, have only tried using my Rokinon 135 lens. Need to master that before I attempt anything heavier. I also have an intervalometer. 
 

Last suggestions needed - clip in filters? Which are a must? I have photoshop and Lightroom but see so many other programs. What should I consider getting down the road for post processing?

 Thanks again!
 

 

 

 

 

 

[Astrid]

I'd say that what you need is a Polar Scope (basically a scope that helps you to get a better and more precise polar alignment). You can find plenty of videos online about it and how it works (but don't worry, it costs around 30-40£). 

A polar scope is not necessary, but it will most likely solve your problem.

Edit: I'm not sure if a polar scope could be used with a camera as well (I only saw videos about it with telescopes).  

AP software I know: Deep Sky Stacker and Registax.

Clear skies!

Edited September 7, 2020 by Astrid

[Robindonne]

If that all okay then check if:

your camera is perfectly aligned with the mount.

your altitude setting are correct.

 

I would double check the level of the mount, turn the spiritlevel around to check if its working properly.

Make sure the mount is in exact homeposition, the most upward facing direction possible.

Place polaris on the right clock position.

And then do a 3 star alignment.   
 

it should know its position by now.  

There is a way, but im not sure if your mount has that option, to check the polarignment. It should show in the menu, only after a completed 3 star-alignment! 
All this extra option does is ask to center some stars and the software collects the data of movements you made to center that star.  After you’ve made all the adjustments, the software shows you how much the polaralignment is off.   

Edited September 7, 2020 by Robindonne

[michael8554]

You can Polar Align with your DSLR using the DARV method  :

https://www.cloudynights.com/articles/cat/articles/darv-drift-alignment-by-robert-vice-r2760

Michael

 

 

[Davey-T]

Hi and welcome to SGL, you seem to be doing it right , as you say when you have a view of Polaris rotate so 6 is at the bottom then adjust as necessary to get Polaris in position  as shown by a Polar align app then leave well alone, you can have a squint up the polar scope during imaging to check Polaris is tracking round the circle.

Balance should be achievable in any position and not alter to any great extent when rotating to target but you can rebalance if necessary when on target.

Wouldn't worry about buying filters.

Deep Sky S tacker is ideal  free software for processing DSLR images ready for further processing in Photoshop.

4 hours ago, Leighkb said:

I don’t have the gear to get the amazing pics I see here, so trying to learn with what I do have before investing any more money.

There is a thread on here called imaging with the Star Adventurer with lots of great images so no need to spend any more money.

Dave

 

Edited September 7, 2020 by Davey-T

[Chefgage]

9 hours ago, Robindonne said:

If that all okay then check if:

your camera is perfectly aligned with the mount.

your altitude setting are correct.

 

I would double check the level of the mount, turn the spiritlevel around to check if its working properly.

Make sure the mount is in exact homeposition, the most upward facing direction possible.

Place polaris on the right clock position.

And then do a 3 star alignment.   
 

it should know its position by now.  

There is a way, but im not sure if your mount has that option, to check the polarignment. It should show in the menu, only after a completed 3 star-alignment! 
All this extra option does is ask to center some stars and the software collects the data of movements you made to center that star.  After you’ve made all the adjustments, the software shows you how much the polaralignment is off.   

Let's not confuse matters. The OP is using a star adventurer, there is no 3 star alignment done with this mount. It's just a tracking mount not a goto.

Edited September 8, 2020 by Chefgage

[Chefgage]

12 hours ago, Leighkb said:

Beginner here who is really struggling!  Apologies in advance if this is long!  I only began pointing my camera up about two months ago. I have a Canon T7i. Last week my Star Adventurer Pro arrived and the frustration began. I’ve watched countless videos and know what I’m “supposed” to do - but it seems to all go out the window when I’m fumbling in the dark. I realize these questions are probably silly, but I can’t seem to find an answer online.  I’ve only had three clear nights so far to practice and there’s been some improvement, but I’m way off!  A pole master and/or guiding is not in the budget right now.

 Polaris - tripod pointing north.  Level it properly.  Set altitude.  Look through and see so many stars and they look almost equally bright.  How do you know you’re on the correct star? Last night I went out at dusk (can’t see Polaris from my yard so I have to lug everything to a different location) and that helped tremendously, as it was the only star there.  But that’s not practical long term... can’t always head out that early.  Should I get a laser pointer? Any other tricks or tips?

PA - last night was the first time I had even marginal success.  With 0 up and 6 down, I  used an app to get the correct position of Polaris.  I was not perfect, but close, which was a huge improvement in itself for me! I set up my camera with a Rokinon 135mm lens, balanced it, moved it to roughly the position I wanted to shoot, checked my PA and it was slightly off so I readjusted.  Some time goes by and I’m noticing anything over 15 seconds has very noticeable trailing.  Polaris is way off when I look in the scope.  My axis is obviously turned to position the camera and I had no idea if I’m supposed to be repositioning Polaris to where it should be on a clock face - ignoring where the 0, 3, 6 and 9 are actually showing  - or to realign to where it would be in relation to the numbers.  I hope that makes sense! I ended up positioning Polaris where roughly 9 would be (as it was shown on the app by this time) and ignored that the number 9 was in a totally different position in the scope.  Still could not get any images over 15 seconds  without trailing.  I’m sure my polar alignment wasn’t perfect when I started - before it all went totally to hell - but I really thought I was close and should’ve been able to get longer exposures.  Any help or advice appreciated! It’s so frustrating when you go through your checklist and think everything was done correctly only to realize you screwed up bad somewhere. 
 

Balance - thoroughly understand and am able to properly balance my camera and counterweight. But I am certain that I was throwing my balance totally off when I would loosen the clutch underneath and rotate the actual camera to point in a certain direction. How do you compensate for that? The idea of moving everything back to “home” position and starting over can’t be right! Lol

 Anyone who stuck with me this long - thank you!!! This is completely new and overwhelming - yet very excited to learn. I don’t have the gear to get the amazing pics I see here, so trying to learn with what I do have before investing any more money.   Have recently purchased the tracker, ordered a new tripod and bought two Rokinon lenses. Hubby has had enough! Lol

Equipment - canon T7i, Star Adventurer Pro, relatively inexpensive tripod until the Star Adventurer one arrives, have only tried using my Rokinon 135 lens. Need to master that before I attempt anything heavier. I also have an intervalometer. 
 

Last suggestions needed - clip in filters? Which are a must? I have photoshop and Lightroom but see so many other programs. What should I consider getting down the road for post processing?

 Thanks again!
 

 

 

 

 

 

With that size lens you should indeed be getting longer than 15 seconds. My suggestion is possibly you are not aligning with Polaris but with another star??  Easy mistake to make especially as like you say you can see quite a few bright stars through the polar scope.

[Chefgage]

You also state you cannot see Polaris from your yard. So are you always going to be imaging at another location?

[Leighkb]

4 hours ago, Chefgage said:

You also state you cannot see Polaris from your yard. So are you always going to be imaging at another location?

I would be very limited imaging from home. My house is north facing - so I can see Polaris from my front yard. But trees, my neighbor’s homes and street lights give me few options. My backyard has a great view of the south skies, but my house blocks Polaris entirely. 🤦🏼‍♀️

[Leighkb]

4 hours ago, Chefgage said:

With that size lens you should indeed be getting longer than 15 seconds. My suggestion is possibly you are not aligning with Polaris but with another star??  Easy mistake to make especially as like you say you can see quite a few bright stars through the polar scope.

Oh it’s totally possible I was on the wrong star! Lol. But I was pretty sure it was Polaris initially -  as this last attempt I went out at dusk and there was only one star in the polar scope. Once it wandered away, and there were lots of stars in the reticle when I tried to realign... who knows!

[Leighkb]

13 hours ago, Davey-T said:

Hi and welcome to SGL, you seem to be doing it right , as you say when you have a view of Polaris rotate so 6 is at the bottom then adjust as necessary to get Polaris in position  as shown by a Polar align app then leave well alone, you can have a squint up the polar scope during imaging to check Polaris is tracking round the circle.

Balance should be achievable in any position and not alter to any great extent when rotating to target but you can rebalance if necessary when on target.

Wouldn't worry about buying filters.

Deep Sky S tacker is ideal  free software for processing DSLR images ready for further processing in Photoshop.

There is a thread on here called imaging with the Star Adventurer with lots of great images so no need to spend any more money.

Dave

 

Thank you! I’ll keep trying!

[Chefgage]

12 minutes ago, Leighkb said:

Oh it’s totally possible I was on the wrong star! Lol. But I was pretty sure it was Polaris initially -  as this last attempt I went out at dusk and there was only one star in the polar scope. Once it wandered away, and there were lots of stars in the reticle when I tried to realign... who knows!

Keep at it, you will get there. I try to have my camera or scope fitted.in such a way so that I can check the polar alignment from time to time if I want whilst it's imaging. You should then be able to see if Polaris is tracking around the polar scope.

[Chefgage]

I seem to remember reading somewhere about problems if you over tighten the clutch. Cannot remember the exact problem it causes though. Might be an idea to try?

Edited September 8, 2020 by Chefgage

[AstroMuni]

19 hours ago, Leighkb said:

Polaris - tripod pointing north.  Level it properly.  Set altitude.  Look through and see so many stars and they look almost equally bright.  How do you know you’re on the correct star? Last night I went out at dusk (can’t see Polaris from my yard so I have to lug everything to a different location) and that helped tremendously, as it was the only star there.  But that’s not practical long term... can’t always head out that early.  Should I get a laser pointer? Any other tricks or tips?

I have the same problem and cant see Polaris from one side of the house. What you need to do there is use an App like Skeye  (only on Android) or the Pro version of Skysafari which shows a reticle and place your phone on the back of your camera. Get your camera to point to Polaris (ofcourse you wont see Polaris in your camera 🙂 ) and move the tripod around until Polaris is in the middle of your reticle in the app. You can do this even during the day.

Also read this https://skyandtelescope.org/observing/daylight-polar-alignment/ (the video link doesnt work)

and

 

[Neil H]

I use polar alginment pro cost £3 i think its not muvh and you can do day time polar alignment  i have checked  it and its so close to spot on 

Another i have done is go as far back in the garden till i can see polaris and see were it lines up on next doors house then when i set up i line up on that spot on next doors house and that 

[newbie alert]

On 07/09/2020 at 23:41, Robindonne said:

If that all okay then check if:

your camera is perfectly aligned with the mount.

your altitude setting are correct.

 

I would double check the level of the mount, turn the spiritlevel around to check if its working properly.

Make sure the mount is in exact homeposition, the most upward facing direction possible.

Place polaris on the right clock position.

And then do a 3 star alignment.   
 

it should know its position by now.  

There is a way, but im not sure if your mount has that option, to check the polarignment. It should show in the menu, only after a completed 3 star-alignment! 
All this extra option does is ask to center some stars and the software collects the data of movements you made to center that star.  After you’ve made all the adjustments, the software shows you how much the polaralignment is off.   

Unless I read it wrong he has a star adventurer and a camera and lens.. no star alignment needed as it's a basic tracking mount that only has a RA axis

[newbie alert]

There's a few things that I do with my S.A. , first I'd check that the hexbolts on the wedge are tight, mine were loose causing issues..another thing is not to rely on the bubble level on the mount as being level, a friend made some decent levels and it shows how far out the little bubble levels are..

I use synscanlnit  app for Polaris position and place Polaris where it should be, then with the clutch loose I rotate the lever and make sure that Polaris stays on its road.. once done I place it back in the right position and gently tighten the clutch.. I use a ball head to point the camera,  don't loosen the clutch as you will lose alignment... enjoy, that's a fantastic lens

Edited December 18, 2020 by newbie alert
Uploaded pic

[Moonshed]

 

I was once told that on an equatorial mount it was not necessary to have it spirit bubble level. I don’t know if this true or not but I always make sure my mount is level with the bubble anyway, otherwise why have it?

 

Edited December 19, 2020 by Moonshed

[Moonshed]

On 08/09/2020 at 13:45, Leighkb said:

Oh it’s totally possible I was on the wrong star! Lol. But I was pretty sure it was Polaris initially -  as this last attempt I went out at dusk and there was only one star in the polar scope. Once it wandered away, and there were lots of stars in the reticle when I tried to realign... who knows!

When you do find Polaris you will discover it is much brighter than the surrounding stars and stands out in comparison, also as an aid two nearby stars make up a small triangle

[michael8554]

When you go outside at night and look north, there is only one star, not particularly bright, about 45 degrees up, and well separated from others,  that looks to be a possibility.

That'll be Polaris.

Michael

[Neil H]

Hi just find the big dipper (plough) then use the last 2 stars that make up the side of the bowl these point to polaris