Help with my Eye piece set

[Barry-W-Fenner]

Hi all,

I was hoping for some help and advice on my current eye piece set.

I have now acquired 3 Morpheus eye pieces 6.5,9 & 14mm I really like these eye piece and would like to build a minimalist set around them. Ideally I would only like 5 or 6 EP's to suit both my 200 & 300p scopes. The main reason in reducing my set is because I would like to spend more time at the eye piece observing and less time messing around swapping out EP's. I must confest on the few occasions I have observed recently I have been very happy just using the 3 Morpheus EP's. With that In mind they are definitely my go to EP's now. I feel that my 2" 30mm aero ed will cover my low power needs for large nebula and views of open clusters.  So now you know my essentials, can I have advice on my current EP spacing. Any help and advice appreciated.

 

Thank you

Baz

[Rob_UK_SE]

2 hours ago, Barry-W-Fenner said:

Hi all,

I was hoping for some help and advice on my current eye piece set.

I have now acquired 3 Morpheus eye pieces 6.5,9 & 14mm I really like these eye piece and would like to build a minimalist set around them. Ideally I would only like 5 or 6 EP's to suit both my 200 & 300p scopes. The main reason in reducing my set is because I would like to spend more time at the eye piece observing and less time messing around swapping out EP's. I must confest on the few occasions I have observed recently I have been very happy just using the 3 Morpheus EP's. With that In mind they are definitely my go to EP's now. I feel that my 2" 30mm aero ed will cover my low power needs for large nebula and views of open clusters.  So now you know my essentials, can I have advice on my current EP spacing. Any help and advice appreciated.

 

Thank you

Baz

I have been on a similar journey recently and also use a 12” dob...

Firstly, that’s a lovely set of eyepieces, Baz - you really do have a lot covered already. Having closer spaced focal lengths (at the shorter end) is certainly beneficial, but is an area that you could thin out if you’re only reaching for specific focal lengths. Do you still reach for the Starguiders now that you have the Morpheus?

My most frequently used focal lengths with the 12” are 21/13/8. Recently, I am often jumping from 21mm to 8mm, depending on the target, but do enjoy the 13mm with many winter targets. I would have thought your 9mm is ideally suited to a great many smaller DSOs as well as planetary views, with excellent contrast, in general seeing conditions.

If you ‘had to’ thin things out, I would let go of the 8mm, 12mm and 18mm Starguiders and consider adding something around 20mm. I find the 4mm exit pupil from a 20mm(ish) eyepiece ideal for subtle objects like the veil nebula from non-dark sites. Spacing the low end 30mm, 20mm, 14mm, etc. is a good progression.

Alternatively (as you appear to be enjoying the Morpheus so much), you could always work towards an ever so slightly larger set by adding a 4.5mm at the top end too? 😀
 

4.5mm, 6.5mm, 9mm, 14mm, 20mm(ish) and 30mm as a ‘complete’ set of six eyepieces.

Edited September 7, 2020 by Rob_UK_SE

[Louis D]

You might want to get a 3.2mm to 4mm eyepiece for nights of exceptional seeing.  I haven't tried the 3.2mm Starguider, but the 3.5mm Pentax XW is very nice.

If you have the money, I'd go for a 17mm ES-92 to replace the 18mm Starguider and a future 18mm to 20mm UWA like a 20mm Nagler T2/T5, 20mm Meade UWA, or 18mm ES-82.  The ES-92 eye relief is very generous, the contrast if phenomenal, and edge correction is excellent.

[John]

I find 21mm - 13mm - 8mm - 6mm deliver 80% of my observing with my 12 inc F/5.3 dobsonian. They are my core set with this scope.

I have shorter and longer focal length eyepieces but they don't get as much use as the above.

 

 

[PaulM]

I have a 350p and these are my EPs

SkyWatcher 2" PanaView 38mm Eyepiece \ Meade 24mm SWA \ BST starguider 60 degree 15mm and 8mm \ 4mm Skywatcher

The 2" panaview is my fav ill just pan around slowly sometimes then on most DSOs its the 15 then 8mm same for planetary

[Barry-W-Fenner]

11 hours ago, Rob_UK_SE said:

Firstly, that’s a lovely set of eyepieces, Baz - you really do have a lot covered already. Having closer spaced focal lengths (at the shorter end) is certainly beneficial, but is an area that you could thin out if you’re only reaching for specific focal lengths. Do you still reach for the Starguiders now that you have the Morpheus?

Morning Rob,

I have been reading through your thread with interest. As you say we are on a similar path refining our EP collections. My intention was to use the 3 Morphs as my main set, The 9mm being the goto providing x167 - The 6.5 gives x230 on better nights of seeing,  Which are few and far between at the moment. The 14mm x107 for low power viewing.

My intention was to use the remaining BST range between these 3 to give more options. However so far I have literally used the 8mm BST once and that has been all. I have not had the conditions to use the higher power of the 5mm & the 18mm isn't particularly good in the 300p. Furthermore, not to take anything away from the BST'S as they are amazing value for the money,  I am totally immersed when using the Morphs due to the excellent fov, eye relief and contrast provided. I haven't been interested in using the BST'S

10 hours ago, John said:

I find 21mm - 13mm - 8mm - 6mm deliver 80% of my observing with my 12 inc F/5.3 dobsonian. They are my core set with this scope

Morning John,

There certainly seems to be a pattern with most 12" dob users following a very Similar step on power. If I was to follow this I would have my 6.5mm - 9mm - 14mm and ideally something in the 18 to 20mm area for low power along with the 30mm 

I think I will check out & have a read up about the options above that @Louis D has kindly recommended to replace my 18mm BST.

 

Thanks all.

 

Regards

 

Baz

[Louis D]

6 hours ago, Barry-W-Fenner said:

I think I will check out & have a read up about the options above that @Louis D has kindly recommended to replace my 18mm BST.

The problem you'll run into around 18mm to 20mm is it's a no man's land when it comes to wide field and long eye relief in large part if you avoid the various 17mm offerings (Morpheus, ES-92, and .  There's the 20mm Pentax XW with field curvature that can be an issue for folks with presbyopia (bifocal wearers), the 22mm Vixen LVW which has long been discontinued but otherwise excellent at 65 degrees, the 22mm Nagler T4 which is expensive and a bit tight on eye relief, the above mentioned 18mm and 20mm UWAs which all have very limited eye relief, and the 22mm Astro Tech AF70 which is also known as the Celestron Ultima LX, Olivon 70, Omegon Redline SW, Skywatcher 22mm SWA-70, and several other brandings.  It is very comfortable with eyeglasses, flat of field, and sharp out to 90%+ of the field at f/6 with a true 70 degree field.

[Rob_UK_SE]

10 hours ago, Barry-W-Fenner said:

Morning Rob,

I have been reading through your thread with interest. As you say we are on a similar path refining our EP collections. My intention was to use the 3 Morphs as my main set, The 9mm being the goto providing x167 - The 6.5 gives x230 on better nights of seeing,  Which are few and far between at the moment. The 14mm x107 for low power viewing.

My intention was to use the remaining BST range between these 3 to give more options. However so far I have literally used the 8mm BST once and that has been all. I have not had the conditions to use the higher power of the 5mm & the 18mm isn't particularly good in the 300p. Furthermore, not to take anything away from the BST'S as they are amazing value for the money,  I am totally immersed when using the Morphs due to the excellent fov, eye relief and contrast provided. I haven't been interested in using the BST'S

If you were to add one more eyepiece (for lower power), my suggestion would the 22mm Nagler. I appreciate that it is a considerable investment, but it is a wonderful eyepiece and would perfectly complement your trio of Morpheus. Although this sort of thing can be very subjective, I have not found the eye relief too tight (it is stated to be 19mm) and the 22N is certainly much more relaxing to use than the 21mm Ethos. I own the 21E and frequently observe with someone that has the 22N. I have always been very impressed with the views from the 22N. As a long term investment, a set comprised of a 22mm Nagler with 14mm, 9mm and 6.5mm Morpheus would make a lovely quartet and, importantly, all focal lengths would get used frequently.

If the 22N is just too much of an investment, you could also explore the 20mm APM XWA which is somewhat influenced by the 21E. It has around 15mm of eye relief (so is a little tighter than the 22N) - this may not be sufficient if you wear glasses to observe.

My ‘journey’ to expand the available focal lengths in my eyepiece case is the result of using both a dob and refractor.  I was finding gaps in focal lengths that I would like to utilise, but that weren’t available. The new additions have largely been used in the refractor, thus far, but I look forward to using them in both scopes in the future (there are still a couple of gaps to address too). Like you, I enjoy keeping things fairly simple with the dob and, as a result, tend to only switch between 3 or 4 eyepieces during an evening. However, there have been more than a few occasions where I only use one (usually the 21mm).

Edited September 8, 2020 by Rob_UK_SE

[Louis D]

The 22mm Nagler is nice.  I was able to find one second hand for about $270, IIRC.  It has a ding on the outer housing, but the optics and insertion barrel are fine.  I find I do have to touch my glasses to the top of the eyepiece and push in slightly to see the entire field (the eye lens is only 30mm in diameter compared to 36mm/37mm for the Morpheus).  However, it does not have the finicky exit pupil of its 17mm and 12mm stablemates, so it is usable to the field stop.  It feels about like 16mm of usable eye relief compared to the Morpheus's 18mm or more of usable eye relief.  The ES-92s are right in between at about 17mm of usable eye relief with their 43mm eye lenses.  If you don't push in, you can easily see 70 degrees as with the AT AF70 (both have 30mm eye lenses).

[Don Pensack]

I'm using a set of:

For glasses:

30mm APM UFF

22mm TeleVue Nagler

17.5mm Baader morpheus

14mm Baader Morpheus

12.5mm APM Hi-FW

11mm TeleVue Apollo 11

Some nights, I use the 30--17.5--12..5 triplet

Other nights, I use the 22--14--11 triplet

I almost never use all of them on one night.  These replaced the 21--17--13mm Ethos since the Ethos EPs weren't compatible with glasses and 

I didn't find them easy to use with a DioptRx.

Without glasses:

10mm, 8mm, 6mm, 4.7mm, 3.7mm Ethos.

I'm spending some time to live with the 11 Apollo and 10mm Ethos.  I may not keep the 10mm Ethos.

This is called "having too many eyepieces".  I need to pare down.

 

So, let's maintain the ratios between the 6.5mm, 9mm, and 14mm Morpheus.

Extended from 14mm, that's 20mm and 28mm (your 30mm would be fine)

Extended from 6.5mm on the other end: that's 4.6mm (4.5-4.7mm OK) and 3.3mm (3-3.5mm OK)

That yields 7 total eyepieces in the set.

So, you could use a 20mm and two short ones to complete your set.

 

Edited September 8, 2020 by Don Pensack

[Louis D]

@Don PensackHow does the APM 12.5mm compare to the Apollo 11mm?

[Barry-W-Fenner]

22 hours ago, Don Pensack said:

I'm using a set of:

For glasses:

30mm APM UFF

22mm TeleVue Nagler

17.5mm Baader morpheus

14mm Baader Morpheus

12.5mm APM Hi-FW

11mm TeleVue Apollo 11

Some nights, I use the 30--17.5--12..5 triplet

Other nights, I use the 22--14--11 triplet

I almost never use all of them on one night.  These replaced the 21--17--13mm Ethos since the Ethos EPs weren't compatible with glasses and 

I didn't find them easy to use with a DioptRx.

Without glasses:

10mm, 8mm, 6mm, 4.7mm, 3.7mm Ethos.

I'm spending some time to live with the 11 Apollo and 10mm Ethos.  I may not keep the 10mm Ethos.

This is called "having too many eyepieces".  I need to pare down.

 

So, let's maintain the ratios between the 6.5mm, 9mm, and 14mm Morpheus.

Extended from 14mm, that's 20mm and 28mm (your 30mm would be fine)

Extended from 6.5mm on the other end: that's 4.6mm (4.5-4.7mm OK) and 3.3mm (3-3.5mm OK)

That yields 7 total eyepieces in the set.

So, you could use a 20mm and two short ones to complete your set.

 

Thanks for the advice Don, very informative as usual 👍

For the time being I will see how many opportunities I get to use my 5mm bst for higher power viewing (x300)

Going by your ratios, would the Morpheus 17.5mm be  sufficient to cover the 20mm area?  Or would that be to close to the 14mm and not really long enough? I may be tempted to purchase the 4.5mm Morph in time to 😁

Regards

Baz

 

[Don Pensack]

2 hours ago, Barry-W-Fenner said:

Thanks for the advice Don, very informative as usual 👍

For the time being I will see how many opportunities I get to use my 5mm bst for higher power viewing (x300)

Going by your ratios, would the Morpheus 17.5mm be  sufficient to cover the 20mm area?  Or would that be to close to the 14mm and not really long enough? I may be tempted to purchase the 4.5mm Morph in time to 😁

Regards

Baz

 

Whether 17.5mm and 14mm are far enough apart in magnification depends on the focal length of the scope.  In a scope with >2000mm focal length, they are.

In a scope of 1500mm focal length, they are only 21x apart in magnification, and that is too close to be worthy of using both.

If you use the eyepieces in sets so you leapfrog over the in between focal lengths and use your eyepieces in sets, then having both 17.5mm and 14mm may make some sense.

Normally, though, at least for 200x and down, you really want a 1.414 magnification change from focal length to focal length.

So in a 1500mm scope, that's 30mm, 21mm, 15mm, 11mm, 7.5mm with the normal +/- depending on the availability of focal lengths (for example 30-20-14-10-7 would be fine).

[Don Pensack]

On 08/09/2020 at 13:42, Louis D said:

@Don PensackHow does the APM 12.5mm compare to the Apollo 11mm?

I've only gotten two full nights to use both, and I had mixed results on the 12.5mm Hi-FW.

The Apollo, though, is everything the Naglers should be--sharp, amazing contrast, better lateral control of color.  It's only flaw is what happens to a star right at the field stop.

I'm really in the process of comparing the 10mm Ethos with the 11mm Apollo, and the Ethos just might not make the cut, despite it being my favorite Ethos in my scope.

[there have been nights where it was almost the only eyepiece in the focuser].

But, if I keep with the pattern of using my eyepieces as 2 sets (30-17.5-12.5-8, or 22-14-11-8), then I may keep both Apollo and Hi-FW.  The 10mm Ethos I'm not sure about.

On the 12.5mm, I pull the eyecup down over the knurled shoulder so the top is a flat rubber surface.  It has plenty of eye relief for glasses that way.

The Apollo 11 is also usable with glasses, though that is on the cusp for me, where I no longer need glasses.

Edited September 9, 2020 by Don Pensack