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Rich1980

Brand new Esprit 100ED dust/particle issue?

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Hi, 

I've just got my new Esprit 100 only to find what seems to be quite a bit of dust/particles within the optics. Seems to be behind the front element? 

I've spoken to the retailer and am advised it's an issue with all of them due to the manufacturing process. I've also messaged skywatcher themselves for their take on it but while awaiting a response I thought I'd see what the opinion was of other owners. 

I get that it could be common given the process involved in making it but for what is a fair old priced bit of kit I wouldn't expect it, especially to the extent it is too. 

So what are peoples thoughts? Any comment or opinion greatly appreciated. 

Rich. 20200831_160037.thumb.jpg.c3171e3fc248fca7972df1f6534e92da.jpg

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Personally I'd expect on a brand new scope that the manufacturing process should result in almost no dust between the elements, and once assembled the cell wouldn't allow much ingress of dust in a relatively clean room assembly line. If this is common then that's disappointing to say the least. Hopefully the manufacturer would be prepared to resolve for you.

Edited by DaveL59
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The spaces between the lenses should be clean. I would return this for a refund.

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1 minute ago, johninderby said:

I’m assuming you didn’t buy it from FLO?

No, there wasn't any stock at FLO. Nor many places really, did drop on this one at another known retailer though. 

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40 minutes ago, Rich1980 said:

Hi, 

I've just got my new Esprit 100 only to find what seems to be quite a bit of dust/particles within the optics. Seems to be behind the front element? 

I've spoken to the retailer and am advised it's an issue with all of them due to the manufacturing process. I've also messaged skywatcher themselves for their take on it but while awaiting a response I thought I'd see what the opinion was of other owners. 

I get that it could be common given the process involved in making it but for what is a fair old priced bit of kit I wouldn't expect it, especially to the extent it is too. 

So what are peoples thoughts? Any comment or opinion greatly appreciated. 

Rich.

Is it between the elements on on the rear surface? It often looks like its between when its on the rear surface.

The tube is to short that you can just remove the focuser (turn the wheel behind the focuser counter clockwise until it comes off), once you have it off you can just use a rocket blower to blow the dust off the rear, just mind the baffels.

They are not assembled in clean rooms and to be frank you will get dust on it within the fist few hours of use anyhow, I know it it not the best from an unboxing of a new scope experiance but , mine was the same, I did not let it bother me and you should not let it bother you.

My advice is to perform a star test on the optics, before you send anything back. there is always the possibility that you will send a fine optic back because of some dust (not that i would expect an exchange on the basis of dust) and for the sake of a few particles of dust you could get a inferior optic in exchange.

Adam

Edited by Adam J

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Too bad as FLO offers the ES Reid test and setup. Shouldn’t have dust between the oblective lenses.

Edited by johninderby
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That’s terrible...I would be sending that straight back...I have scopes 15 years old with less dust than that inside...and if it’s between the glass elements, then that’s even worse...I would not bank on a quick reply from SW either, I have an issue with a mount, and have been messaging them for months, as I have to wait at least four weeks for a reply to each of my emails... 😡😡

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13 minutes ago, Adam J said:

Is it between the elements on on the rear surface? It often looks like its between when its on the rear surface.

The tube is to short that you can just remove the focuser (turn the wheel behind the focuser counter clockwise until it comes off), once you have it off you can just use a rocket blower to blow the dust off.

They are not assembled in clean rooms and to be frank you will get dust on it within the fist few hours of use anyhow, I know it it not the best from an unboxing of a new scope experiance but , mine was the same, I did not let it bother me and you should not let it bother you.

My advice is to perform a star test on the optics, before you send anything back. there is always the possibility that you will send a fine optic back because of some dust (not that i would expect an exchange on the basis of dust) and for the sake of a few particles of dust you could get a inferior optic in exchange.

Adam

I’m sorry, but I disagree, for the money you pay, it should be far better than that, a few very small particles..yes, buts that is not a few small ones, it looks hideous...and totally unacceptable in my book... sorry but my opinion... 👍😀

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10 minutes ago, Stuart1971 said:

I’m sorry, but I disagree, for the money you pay, it should be far better than that, a few very small particles..yes, buts that is not a few small ones, it looks hideous...and totally unacceptable in my book... sorry but my opinion... 👍😀

I think it was very clear that you have a different opinion to mine from your original post, which clearly stated your opinion, as such I find it odd that you feel the need to explicitly highlight that your opinion is different to mine in an additional post.  I dont think that the OP is in any danger of accidently thinking that we agreed.

Without testing it for all we know its the finest figured Esprit 100 lens ever to come off the production line. It could have 0.99 Strel and he may exchange it for one that is bearly diffraction limited but nice and dust free. I know which one I would take, which one would you take?

Now he may also test it and find there is another issue in which case he has a solid reason to send it back.

Adam

Edited by Adam J
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I would expect the objective on a new scope to look like the one on my StellaMira.

B0D614C5-B49C-4A8F-8B52-9DA58CB880E8.jpeg

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@Rich1980 Sounds like you've been hit with excuse #13 by the complaints dept!😟  Time for a refund, I believe!🤨

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I would send it back for a full refund or replacement.

If other brands can supply clean glass in their new scopes, why can't Skywatcher?

I hope your retailer does right by you.

Dave

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I agree entirely with those urging you to return it for a refund or replacement.

The scopes that I have bought new, regardless of price and branding, have all had immaculate lenses and cosmetics and that is the way that yours should be.

If we start to accept these issues then suppliers could get lax.

Sounds like your retailer is giving you a load of baloney as well I'm afraid :rolleyes2:

 

 

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1 hour ago, Adam J said:

Is it between the elements on on the rear surface? It often looks like its between when its on the rear surface.

The tube is to short that you can just remove the focuser (turn the wheel behind the focuser counter clockwise until it comes off), once you have it off you can just use a rocket blower to blow the dust off the rear, just mind the baffels.

They are not assembled in clean rooms and to be frank you will get dust on it within the fist few hours of use anyhow, I know it it not the best from an unboxing of a new scope experiance but , mine was the same, I did not let it bother me and you should not let it bother you.

My advice is to perform a star test on the optics, before you send anything back. there is always the possibility that you will send a fine optic back because of some dust (not that i would expect an exchange on the basis of dust) and for the sake of a few particles of dust you could get a inferior optic in exchange.

Adam

I'll try and take a look, my plan is to seal it with the flattener to prevent any dust entering the scope going forward. 

I'll try and get it outside to test, although it has been optically tested by the retailer prior to dispatch. 

I'm also not sure if I'll have time to get outside with it before my 14 days are up to return it to the shop if that's what I do.

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1 hour ago, Stuart1971 said:

That’s terrible...I would be sending that straight back...I have scopes 15 years old with less dust than that inside...and if it’s between the glass elements, then that’s even worse...I would not bank on a quick reply from SW either, I have an issue with a mount, and have been messaging them for months, as I have to wait at least four weeks for a reply to each of my emails... 😡😡

This is my worry at the moment, is it something skywatcher could sort out? Or do I think about returning it to the retailer in my 14 days of purchase? 

Ideally a swapped scope alone would suffice as all else is good and I've spent time to set the finder and rings up to suit my setup. 

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Optical Vision Limited (OVL) is the importer for Skywatcher gear but usually you would go back to your retailer as the 1st recourse.

 

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10 minutes ago, John said:

I agree entirely with those urging you to return it for a refund or replacement.

The scopes that I have bought new, regardless of price and branding, have all had immaculate lenses and cosmetics and that is the way that yours should be.

If we start to accept these issues then suppliers could get lax.

 

 

To be honest, if it had been a few hundred quid evostar 80ed I'd be surprised but at 4 times the amount I was shocked taking it out the box. 

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Look at this video. Your retailer was obviously less than honest to you: the Esprit ED normally has a perfectly clean triplet lens.

Please send it back as soon as you can and buy a good one from a decent dealer. Good luck, I hope that you soon have a telescope that you can be truly happy with.

I feel you have stumbled upon a retailer that we should all be warned against buying from.

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1 hour ago, Rich1980 said:

This is my worry at the moment, is it something skywatcher could sort out? Or do I think about returning it to the retailer in my 14 days of purchase? 

Ideally a swapped scope alone would suffice as all else is good and I've spent time to set the finder and rings up to suit my setup. 

If its on the lens rear surface then it can be fixed or you can blow it off youself. 

If it really is between the elements then its not something that can be done without disasemblin the lens cell and that required a optical lest bench. It would take many months for you to get it back in that case.

Adam

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1 hour ago, Adam J said:

If its on the lens rear surface then it can be fixed or you can blow it off youself. 

If it really is between the elements then its not something that can be done without disasemblin the lens cell and that required a optical lest bench. It would take many months for you to get it back in that case.

Adam

To find out though, the objective and cell will need to be removed from the scope.

This will give the perfect excuse for the vendor to refuse to give a refund or replacement on the grounds that the customer has disassembled the scope.

The vendor is already trying to be slippery about replacement / refund without giving them more ammunition.

 

 

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43 minutes ago, John said:

To find out though, the objective and cell will need to be removed from the scope.

This will give the perfect excuse for the vendor to refuse to give a refund or replacement on the grounds that the customer has disassembled the scope.

The vendor is already trying to be slippery about replacement / refund without giving them more ammunition.

 

 

No never remove the lens cell as you say, it would loose colimation and you would be in for a world of hurt. You dont need to do that with the Esprit to give the rear lens surface a blow though. The esprit tube is very very short and so all you have to do is remove the focuser from the back which comes off very easy due to the excerlent way SW chose to implement the rotation mechanisum on the esprit series also goes back just as easy. All you do is rotate the silver collar by hand no tools required.

He can always ask their permission, if they want a happy customer and to avoid lots of pain and having a open Esprit to get shot of  for no reason they will say yes. Or he could return it and they could do it on his behalf, but no one should have to remove or indeed touch the lens cell.

But both the Esprit 100s I have had (the first one had a actual optical issue and was exchanged), had some dust on the inside of the cell, hence I dont like his chances of getting one that is 100% clean if it is exchanged. My theory is that they are assembling clean lenses with tubes that are not handelled / stored with as much care and so during shipping material falls off the inside of the tube onto the lens.

Admittedly if the material is between lens elements I would be less happy. But I am thinking that most of it will be on the rear element outer surface.

Adam

Edited by Adam J
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30 minutes ago, Adam J said:

No never remove the lens cell as you say, it would loose colimation and you would be in for a world of hurt. You dont need to do that with the Esprit to give the rear lens surface a blow though. The esprit tube is very very short and so all you have to do is remove the focuser from the back which comes off very easy due to the excerlent way SW chose to implement the rotation mechanisum on the esprit series also goes back just as easy. All you do is rotate the silver collar by hand no tools required.

He can always ask their permission, if they want a happy customer and to avoid lots of pain and having a open Esprit to get shot of  for no reason they will say yes. Or he could return it and they could do it on his behalf, but no one should have to remove or indeed touch the lens cell.

But both the Esprit 100s I have had (the first one had a actual optical issue and was exchanged), had some dust on the inside of the cell, hence I dont like his chances of getting one that is 100% clean if it is exchanged. My theory is that they are assembling clean lenses with tubes that are not handelled / stored with as much care and so during shipping material falls off the inside of the tube onto the lens.

Adam

Oh for goodness sake ! - the scope has been supplied in poor condition when it was supposed to be brand new. Just because you put up with a dusty objective does not mean that others should.

We, the customers, don't have to put up with that and are protected by the regulations.

To the OP: Insist on a refund or a replacement. Any decent supplier would make that happen for you without cost and at minimal inconvenience to yourself.

 

 

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Without question I would send it back, my scope is over 10 years old and has much less dust than this, infact it is very difficult to see any.

Alan

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2 hours ago, John said:

Oh for goodness sake ! - the scope has been supplied in poor condition when it was supposed to be brand new. Just because you put up with a dusty objective does not mean that others should.

We, the customers, don't have to put up with that and are protected by the regulations.

To the OP: Insist on a refund or a replacement. Any decent supplier would make that happen for you without cost and at minimal inconvenience to yourself.

 

I will concede to the consensus of opinion John. As you say OP is well within his rights to return the scope if he is unsatisfied with its condition, with it in front of him he is best placed to judge. 

My unfortunate situation was much more complex and I decided that 5 months  on from spending 1.8k on a scope (2 months wait for scope #1, one month ownership and then two months wait for its replacement, none of which was the fault of my supplier as Esprits where in very poor supply at the time) I was not going to send it back for yet another without at least trying to blow the dust off the inside of the second scope myself. The end outcome was that I was very happy I did not have to send another scope back, so I did not put up with it as much as took matters into my own hands at that point. Hence, having been through that once I am probably seeing things through a different prism to everyone else and my reaction is to suggest what worked out for me.

That being said I concede that my situation was more extreme and I dont think the OP is in that mind-set yet by a long way, so in retrospect, I bow to the opinions of others and I agree he should send it back.

As a final thought, when retailers are basically saying that this is just the way it is, its probably a good indication that SW have a wide spread problem that they need to get a grip of.

Adam

 

Edited by Adam J
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