Ethos + power mate?

[Don Pensack]

ES puts these on sale from time to time, and that is when the sales occur.

The 92s are more cost-effective, but less unique.

[Dantooine]

On 13/09/2020 at 19:46, John said:

When using my 12 inch dob the 21mm Ethos is probably my most used eyepiece. I've had galaxy hunting sessions with it when that is the only eyepiece that I've used.

In that scope the E21 gives 76x magnification and a 1.3 degree true field of view. Potent combination !

 

I fear I am weakening. Looking at astronomy tools for my telescope, the 21E would finish off my eyepiece collection once and for all.

I’ve had the es17/92 and if it’s anything like that to use... well, there would be a pan27 for sale. This is a deep rabbit hole but would I finally find my footing?
 

Just how good is the 21E in comparison to my favourite 13E?

On a serious note having the Ethos 21, 13, 8, 6 & 4.7 would be a pretty Complete set to be proud of 😈 

[John]

5 minutes ago, Dantooine said:

I fear I am weakening. Looking at astronomy tools for my telescope, the 21E would finish off my eyepiece collection once and for all.

I’ve had the es17/92 and if it’s anything like that to use... well, there would be a pan27 for sale. This is a deep rabbit hole but would I finally find my footing?
 

Just how good is the 21E in comparison to my favourite 13E?

On a serious note having the Ethos 21, 13, 8, 6 & 4.7 would be a pretty Complete set to be proud of 😈 

Personally I find the 21mm Ethos just as good as the 13mm.

I used to have the full run of Ethos for a while. The 4.7mm can be hard to find either used or new - eventually Telescope House had an ex-demo one for £100 below list so I went for that.

 

 

[Timebandit]

 

 

Sometimes you are better off buying the eyepiece you really want , than upgrading later. I did this with my 20 mm Nagler T5 . And have never regretted it. Buy once and buy right first time is never false economy. As a good eyepiece you are happy with will last you a life time. And purchased used a TV will usually keep its value if you ever want to sell on 

 

 

[Dantooine]

3 minutes ago, John said:

Personally I find the 21mm Ethos just as good as the 13mm.

I used to have the full run of Ethos for a while. The 4.7mm can be hard to find either used or new - eventually Telescope House had an ex-demo one for £100 below list so I went for that.

 

 

Difficult to get yes. Mine came from Germany. 

[Dantooine]

2 minutes ago, Timebandit said:

 

 

Sometimes you are better off buying the eyepiece you really want , than upgrading later. I did this with my 20 mm Nagler T5 . And have never regretted it. Buy once and buy right first time is never false economy. As a good eyepiece you are happy with will last you a life time. And purchased used a TV will usually keep its value if you ever want to sell on 

 

 

Chance of a used 21E would be pretty slim I think. That says something. 

[Louis D]

55 minutes ago, Dantooine said:

well, there would be a pan27 for sale

Much prefer my 30mm APM UFF to my 27mm Panoptic.  Better eye relief, better edge correction, flatter field, and noticeably wider TFOV.  The Pan might have a slight edge in on-axis sharpness, but it is very slight.  I can't use any 100 degree eyepieces due to my strong astigmatism in my observing eye, so no comparison possible for me vis-à-vis any Ethos.

[Dantooine]

21 minutes ago, Louis D said:

Much prefer my 30mm APM UFF to my 27mm Panoptic.  Better eye relief, better edge correction, flatter field, and noticeably wider TFOV.  The Pan might have a slight edge in on-axis sharpness, but it is very slight.  I can't use any 100 degree eyepieces due to my strong astigmatism in my observing eye, so no comparison possible for me vis-à-vis any Ethos.

Is that the same or similar to the 30mm ultra flat that Altair Astro sell?

[Don Pensack]

1 hour ago, Dantooine said:

Chance of a used 21E would be pretty slim I think. That says something. 

I sold mine a little while ago because I need glasses to see good stars down to about 10mm, now, so the 21, 17, and 13 got sold.

I had a 22mm Nagler from 1998 to 2010, then the Ethos from 2010-2019, and now back to the Nagler 22.  I don't find it much of a sacrifice, though the 21 Ethos is a fine eyepiece.

But they occasionally show up on used sites.  Just not often because so few of them are sold, comparatively speaking.

[Don Pensack]

4 minutes ago, Dantooine said:

Is that the same or similar to the 30mm ultra flat that Altair Astro sell?

There are differences in the barrels, but the APM UltraFlat field, the Altair Ultra Flat, the Meade UHD, the Orion Ultra Flat Field and maybe one other are all the same optics from KunMing United Optics.

Someone here on SGL pointed out the Altair 30mm has a reflective spacer in it, but I don't remember whether it was visible or not in the field.

 

[Dantooine]

9 minutes ago, Don Pensack said:

I sold mine a little while ago because I need glasses to see good stars down to about 10mm, now, so the 21, 17, and 13 got sold.

I had a 22mm Nagler from 1998 to 2010, then the Ethos from 2010-2019, and now back to the Nagler 22.  I don't find it much of a sacrifice, though the 21 Ethos is a fine eyepiece.

But they occasionally show up on used sites.  Just not often because so few of them are sold, comparatively speaking.

That’s very interesting for me. Would you say that the 22 Nagler is a good alternative to the 21 ethos?

I have a pan 27 at the moment and I think it shows about the same field as the Nagler. I have never used a Nagler so for me it’s venturing into the unknown. There is a big difference in price in the uk. 

[Stardaze]

Looks like the Nagler is around 680g so more in line with the Ethos in weight that you have. 

[Louis D]

2 hours ago, Dantooine said:

That’s very interesting for me. Would you say that the 22 Nagler is a good alternative to the 21 ethos?

I have a pan 27 at the moment and I think it shows about the same field as the Nagler. I have never used a Nagler so for me it’s venturing into the unknown. There is a big difference in price in the uk. 

Certainly if you wear glasses the 22mm NT4 is a good alternative.  It's what I ended up with at that focal length.  The difference in field stop diameter is negligible between it and the 27mm Panoptic.  They feels worlds different in usage, though.  The Nagler is just so much more immersive and easier to take in the field stop with eyeglasses than the 27 Pan.  The 30mm APM UFF is noticeably wider than either having a field stop over 5mm larger in diameter, making it just about the same TFOV as the 21mm Ethos.

Edited September 16, 2020 by Louis D

[Dantooine]

3 hours ago, Stardaze said:

Looks like the Nagler is around 680g so more in line with the Ethos in weight that you have. 

Thats a good point and worth consideration as I've built my set with that in mind. The 21E would mean sliding the scope forward or tightening the clutch up considerably.

[Dantooine]

1 hour ago, Louis D said:

Certainly if you wear glasses the 22mm NT4 is a good alternative.  It's what I ended up with at that focal length.  The difference in field stop diameter is negligible between it and the 27mm Panoptic.  They feels worlds different in usage, though.  The Nagler is just so much more immersive and easier to take in the field stop with eyeglasses than the 27 Pan.  The 30mm APM UFF is noticeably wider than either having a field stop over 5mm larger in diameter, making it just about the same TFOV as the 21mm Ethos.

so does the 22mm feel anything like my ethos in use?

[Louis D]

3 hours ago, Dantooine said:

so does the 22mm feel anything like my ethos in use?

Hopefully @Don Pensack can chime in here having owned and used both.  In the meantime, I found the Ethos restricted to about 70 degrees with eyeglasses at star parties.  When I took off my eyeglasses, ignoring massively astigmatic stars, I had to push my eye into the eye cup to see the entire field.  That does cut off any perception of the non-eyepiece FOV world.  Comparatively, my ES-92s are very relaxed and seem more like looking out a bay window from up close.  The 22mm T4 views similarly, just through a smaller window.  You're aware there's a world surrounding the view due to the more generous eye relief.  It is possible to raise the Instajust eye cup if you want a more Ethos-like experience of excluding the outside world, just with a smaller AFOV.

[John]

10 hours ago, Dantooine said:

so does the 22mm feel anything like my ethos in use?

I moved from the 22mm T4 (which I really liked) to the 21mm Ethos via the 20mm T5 Nagler and a 20mm ES 100.

I much prefer using the Ethos 21 to either of the Naglers (which are hardly shabby eyepieces of course). The 21E is a bit better than the 20mm ES 100 as well.

If for some reason I had to go back to a 20something mm Nagler it would be the 22mm T4 that would get the nod but I hope that I will continue with the 21mm Ethos for a long time yet.

"YMMV" though and my Ethos scope is a 12 inch dob rather than a 4 inch frac, which may well make a difference

 

[RickEm]

Of the Ethos I own, my favourites are the 6 and the 21.  The 6  ‘only’ gives me 90x, but coupled with the 2” 2x Powermate, I get 180x and the view loses none of its crispness.  How is that for addressing both aspects of the original topic of the thread!

[Dantooine]

1 hour ago, John said:

I moved from the 22mm T4 (which I really liked) to the 21mm Ethos via the 20mm T5 Nagler and a 20mm ES 100.

I much prefer using the Ethos 21 to either of the Naglers (which are hardly shabby eyepieces of course). The 21E is a bit better than the 20mm ES 100 as well.

If for some reason I had to go back to a 20something mm Nagler it would be the 22mm T4 that would get the nod but I hope that I will continue with the 21mm Ethos for a long time yet.

"YMMV" though and my Ethos scope is a 12 inch dob rather than a 4 inch frac, which may well make a difference

 

Tough call.

22 nag/21E.

Torn between two lovers!

[Dantooine]

11 minutes ago, RickEm said:

Of the Ethos I own, my favourites are the 6 and the 21.  The 6  ‘only’ gives me 90x, but coupled with the 2” 2x Powermate, I get 180x and the view loses none of its crispness.  How is that for addressing both aspects of the original topic of the thread!

180x is good. I’m using the Antares as my planet booster now. Loving the options it brings. 

[Dantooine]

I’m trying to work out if the gap between the lines is worth the extra £400. Need help 🥺

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

+1 for the Nagler 22T4. It is one of my favourites, and is in my view the best of the Type 4 Naglers, with the 17mm a close second. I will not upgrade to an Ethos of any kind because the eye relief of 15 mm is just too tight. If you don't wear glasses, the Ethos should be better (but costs more). I once compared my Nagler 12T4 with an Ethos 13 mm, but didn't get along with the eye relief on the latter. Conditions weren't good enough to give a meaningful comparison of image quality at the time

[John]

1 hour ago, Dantooine said:

I’m trying to work out if the gap between the lines is worth the extra £400. Need help 🥺

You are going to get much the same effect with an APM 20mm / 100 in your F/7 scope I reckon

 

 

 

[Louis D]

2 hours ago, Dantooine said:

Tough call.

22 nag/21E.

Torn between two lovers!

The 22mm NT4 comes up used quite often here in the states for about $300 give or take $50, so you might want to check the classifieds over there for one.  I picked up mine for $250 just a year ago.

[Dantooine]

2 hours ago, John said:

You are going to get much the same effect with an APM 20mm / 100 in your F/7 scope I reckon

 

 

 

That’s a good point made. The physicality looks similar to the 13e, no idea of the weight but I would think it lighter than the 21e.