Ethos + power mate?

[Rob_UK_SE]

22 hours ago, Stardaze said:

 

I've definitely been spoilt with 100 degree vistas. I felt from 200x and greater, that that wouldn't be such an issue for planetary and doubles, it's just going to take some time to get used to. It was nice and sharp, the colour seemed crisp too so no qualms there. M13 looked pretty spectacular, but the 8mm Ethos is the sweet spot for me still with that target. 

I'm not a glasses wearer John, but it felt better twisted almost fully up, but even then I kept just 'blobbing' the front element. Best position seemed to be hovering well above the rubber, however high that was. Getting in close just seemed to black out, odd. Maybe I am used to just getting in close to take in the 100 degree views?

I don’t have the 5mm yet, but find the eye position surprisingly easy to hold with the 10mm and 3.5mm XW. For me, they are more comfortable than the Delos of the same focal lengths. I would recommend bringing the eye cup all the way to its max position and then try to nestle your eye right into it. As the exit pupil gets smaller you do need to hold your eye in just the right place and the nestling method should assist with blackouts. I find an observing chair really helps with this, too, at shorter focal lengths (although I was impressed to hear than John mainly observes standing up ... I wish that I could! 😀). With the combined chair and nestling approach, I am able to use the 3.5mm (0.5mm exit pupil in the refractor) to observe with a surprising amount of comfort compared to other shorter focal length eyepieces.

I very much hope that it does work out for you. If not, do let me know as I was planning to buy that one! 😀

Edited September 11, 2020 by Rob_UK_SE

[Don Pensack]

22 hours ago, Stardaze said:

 

I've definitely been spoilt with 100 degree vistas. I felt from 200x and greater, that that wouldn't be such an issue for planetary and doubles, it's just going to take some time to get used to. It was nice and sharp, the colour seemed crisp too so no qualms there. M13 looked pretty spectacular, but the 8mm Ethos is the sweet spot for me still with that target. 

I'm not a glasses wearer John, but it felt better twisted almost fully up, but even then I kept just 'blobbing' the front element. Best position seemed to be hovering well above the rubber, however high that was. Getting in close just seemed to black out, odd. Maybe I am used to just getting in close to take in the 100 degree views?

Too much eye relief.  But, if the eyecup is wound up all the way, you should be able to touch your brow or nose against the eyepiece to use it successfully.  I trust you're sitting down to view.  Standing is not stable enough for such small exit pupils.

[Stardaze]

1 hour ago, Don Pensack said:

Too much eye relief.  But, if the eyecup is wound up all the way, you should be able to touch your brow or nose against the eyepiece to use it successfully.  I trust you're sitting down to view.  Standing is not stable enough for such small exit pupils.

Yes I’m a sitter Don 😀 Of course it’s the small exit pupil. So should I be getting used to that with no relief? 🤔

Edited September 11, 2020 by Stardaze

[Stardaze]

12 hours ago, Rob_UK_SE said:

I don’t have the 5mm yet, but find the eye position surprisingly easy to hold with the 10mm and 3.5mm XW. For me, they are more comfortable than the Delos of the same focal lengths. I would recommend bringing the eye cup all the way to its max position and then try to nestle your eye right into it. As the exit pupil gets smaller you do need to hold your eye in just the right place and the nestling method should assist with blackouts. I find an observing chair really helps with this, too, at shorter focal lengths (although I was impressed to hear than John mainly observes standing up ... I wish that I could! 😀). With the combined chair and nestling approach, I am able to use the 3.5mm (0.5mm exit pupil in the refractor) to observe with a surprising amount of comfort compared to other shorter focal length eyepieces.

I very much hope that it does work out for you. If not, do let me know as I was planning to buy that one! 😀

Thanks Rob, I somehow missed your post, apologies. 5mm translates to a 1mm exit pupil so I’ll just have to find a method that works, I’m sure I will. It’s looking clear tomorrow night do I shall be out no doubt getting to grips with it. 

[Stardaze]

On 10/09/2020 at 20:31, Dantooine said:

What does your 8E give you, around 150x? You have other ethos?

Pretty much that, 158x. Not yet, I have the APM 13 and 20 as my other 100 degree EP’s.

[Dantooine]

10 hours ago, Stardaze said:

Pretty much that, 158x. Not yet, I have the APM 13 and 20 as my other 100 degree EP’s.

That’s not a bad arsenal. Something around 35mm could be sweet too. 158x is getting near my higher mags 🙁I like a challenge.

you will be another future ethos 13 buyer at some point. Come to think about it they will all turn green & black... they always do in the end 🤣

[Don Pensack]

23 hours ago, Stardaze said:

Yes I’m a sitter Don 😀 Of course it’s the small exit pupil. So should I be getting used to that with no relief? 🤔

You don't need to resort to an eyepiece with no eye relief, but you do need to have an eyepiece with an extendable eyecup to provide a spacial cue to hold your eye in place.

I can successfully use eyepieces that have long eye relief and yield a <0.5mm exit pupil, but the eyecup has to touch my nose or eye socket to help hold my eye in the right place.

[Stardaze]

1 hour ago, Dantooine said:

That’s not a bad arsenal. Something around 35mm could be sweet too. 158x is getting near my higher mags 🙁I like a challenge.

you will be another future ethos 13 buyer at some point. Come to think about it they will all turn green & black... they always do in the end 🤣

I’m not even going to deny that that won’t happen 😆

The plan is to add the 6, then the APM 30. I will swap the APM 13 at some point no doubt but no rush at all, i’m pleased with the core EP’s. Probably won’t bother changing the 20 though, it’s a great EP. 

[Dantooine]

11 minutes ago, Stardaze said:

I’m not even going to deny that that won’t happen 😆

The plan is to add the 6, then the APM 30. I will swap the APM 13 at some point no doubt but no rush at all, i’m pleased with the core EP’s. Probably won’t bother changing the 20 though, it’s a great EP. 

I have read good things about the 20 compared to the 21E, weight for one thing. 

[Stardaze]

1 hour ago, Dantooine said:

I have read good things about the 20 compared to the 21E, weight for one thing. 

Yes that’s probably the biggest factor. I think by adding the 30 I’ll have the low power covered well enough for me. I reckon the 13 and 8 will be the most used so I’ll make sure they’re the best they can be. I kind of don’t want to be buying again, buy once and be done with it, and enjoy.

Edited September 12, 2020 by Stardaze

[John]

21 hours ago, Don Pensack said:

....the eyecup has to touch my nose or eye socket to help hold my eye in the right place.

That is just how I like an eyepiece to be. The ES 92mm 17mm, although an excellent eyepiece, is a bit on the marginal side in this regard - the eye cup is just a touch shorter than I'd ideally like. I'm gradually getting used to it though.

On the Ethos 21, I agree that the new price is crazy now at £800+ and the used prices, when they occasionally come up, are pretty eye watering as well. With my fastest scope being F/5.3 I would probably have happily gone for the APM 20mm 100 if I didn't already have the 21 E.

Perhaps I should sell the 21 E, buy an APM 20 / 100 and bank the difference ?

 

 

[Don Pensack]

56 minutes ago, John said:

That is just how I like an eyepiece to be. The ES 92mm 17mm, although an excellent eyepiece, is a bit on the marginal side in this regard - the eye cup is just a touch shorter than I'd ideally like. I'm gradually getting used to it though.

On the Ethos 21, I agree that the new price is crazy now at £800+ and the used prices, when they occasionally come up, are pretty eye watering as well. With my fastest scope being F/5.3 I would probably have happily gone for the APM 20mm 100 if I didn't already have the 21 E.

Perhaps I should sell the 21 E, buy an APM 20 / 100 and bank the difference ?

 

 

I wouldn't do it.  You'll be disappointed.  As good as the APM is, it's not as good as the 21 Ethos.

[Dantooine]

1 hour ago, Don Pensack said:

I wouldn't do it.  You'll be disappointed.  As good as the APM is, it's not as good as the 21 Ethos.

I would say it depends on the amount of use it gets. For some observers it may make a lot of sense having the APM and spend the money on their most used focal lengths. Myself, I love the wandering through with my pan 27. In my scope it gives me only 26x which is fantastic. I am more happy putting my hard earned money into my mid range which happens to be some people’s low range.. funny ol’ thing astronomy!

[John]

When using my 12 inch dob the 21mm Ethos is probably my most used eyepiece. I've had galaxy hunting sessions with it when that is the only eyepiece that I've used.

In that scope the E21 gives 76x magnification and a 1.3 degree true field of view. Potent combination !

 

[Dantooine]

13 minutes ago, John said:

When using my 12 inch dob the 21mm Ethos is probably my most used eyepiece. I've had galaxy hunting sessions with it when that is the only eyepiece that I've used.

In that scope the E21 gives 76x magnification and a 1.3 degree true field of view. Potent combination !

 

Ha ha, that’s about where I’m at with 8mm but not field) Just goes to show we all have different kit and it really is horses for courses.

Maybe you’d better keep that one and I’ll hang tough with my 8mm as I find myself there quite often.

Tonight however, I will be at my “super high” magnifications of between 150x - 200 ‘n’ something on My wife’s home planet of mars!
 

Not long finished work and looking outside I think it’s going to be a late one looking at the orange lentil sized planet in my pea shooter sized telescope 😉

Edited September 13, 2020 by Dantooine

[Dantooine]

1 hour ago, John said:

When using my 12 inch dob the 21mm Ethos is probably my most used eyepiece. I've had galaxy hunting sessions with it when that is the only eyepiece that I've used.

In that scope the E21 gives 76x magnification and a 1.3 degree true field of view. Potent combination !

 

Do you use it in you refractor? I can only imagine how good it must be in that. It’s probably best if I don’t look through one just yet as I would most likely get into some bother.

It would stand out as it looks rather different to the other ethos I have. Even my non astronomical wife would notice if it suddenly appeared in my eyepiece case. 

[RickEm]

4 hours ago, Dantooine said:

I would say it depends on the amount of use it gets. For some observers it may make a lot of sense having the APM and spend the money on their most used focal lengths. Myself, I love the wandering through with my pan 27. In my scope it gives me only 26x which is fantastic. I am more happy putting my hard earned money into my mid range which happens to be some people’s low range.. funny ol’ thing astronomy!

Interestingly, the Ethos 21 gives me 26x and a 3.8* AFOV in my np-101.  The Ethos 21 is a bit of a bully, however, refusing to leave the focuser for other eyepieces.

[John]

3 hours ago, Dantooine said:

Do you use it in you refractor?

 

Sometimes. Not the Tak which is setup for 1.25 inch eyepieces but the other refractors do get their turn with the big Ethos. And the big Nagler as well

You are right though - you can't really hide these things away

[Dantooine]

1 hour ago, RickEm said:

Interestingly, the Ethos 21 gives me 26x and a 3.8* AFOV in my np-101.  The Ethos 21 is a bit of a bully, however, refusing to leave the focuser for other eyepieces.

Wow 3.8 is massive. There would be a lot to look at without having to move telescope for ages. I can be a little addicted to leaving the 13 in for long periods. As I’ve not seen 26x at such a wide afov your comment has given me serious curiosity. 

[Dantooine]

4 minutes ago, John said:

Sometimes. Not the Tak which is setup for 1.25 inch eyepieces but the other refractors do get their turn with the big Ethos. And the big Nagler as well

You are right though - you can't really hide these things away

21e in one hand, 31n in the other.. that’s a good value life long gym membership (not that I’ve ever been to a gym) 

[Louis D]

On 12/09/2020 at 12:52, Don Pensack said:

I can successfully use eyepieces that have long eye relief and yield a <0.5mm exit pupil, but the eyecup has to touch my nose or eye socket to help hold my eye in the right place.

I have so many bulbous, long eye relief eyepieces and a long enough nose that I get to know the right eye position by the feeling of my nose touching the upper body of the eyepiece while hovering.

[Dantooine]

Briefly back to the ethos/powermate thread that ended up as an Antares.

The sky is very dark and very clear here In Sussex tonight, best I’ve had for a while. I have my kit outside cooling whilst I’m having a wake up cuppa.
 

I’m really hoping to try pushing the frac shortly with the Antares and the 4.7e. hoping to see mars as a full sized pea rather than a lentil. The moment of truth awaits 🤞

[Dantooine]

6 minutes ago, Louis D said:

I have so many bulbous, long eye relief eyepieces and a long enough nose that I get to know the right eye position by the feeling of my nose touching the upper body of the eyepiece while hovering.

I am beginning to think there is a conspiracy to get me to put a 21E in my collection.
It started a while back with John saying a 21 would sit nicely for me.
 

I thought I’d fobbed him off with my pan 27 satisfaction. I’m not sure it’s been fallen for 🤔

[Stardaze]

Happy to report that the XW eye placement seemed absolutely fine last night, it all fell in place? A great steady night I found, it was excellent viewing conditions throughout. If anything, having spent most of the night flitting between 5/8/13, the 20 towards the end didn't work so well for me. Ah well, the winter season is approaching quickly, where I don't have to burn the candle both ends. 

[Rob_UK_SE]

9 hours ago, Dantooine said:

I am beginning to think there is a conspiracy to get me to put a 21E in my collection.
It started a while back with John saying a 21 would sit nicely for me.
 

I thought I’d fobbed him off with my pan 27 satisfaction. I’m not sure it’s been fallen for 🤔

It is a very lovely eyepiece to use and the additional magnification certainly benefits contrast. However, it is also very heavy and can cause all manner of balancing issues when observing around the zenith on a manual alt az mount. As long as your mount can apply some friction to the altitude bearing it should be ok. It’s not so much about balancing the telescope’s lens cells and eyepiece, but an issue of the uneven placement of the weight extending above the scope at the focuser end.

I recall once seeing an ingenious homemade solution bu Stu that added a counterweight on the opposite side of the focuser. I once tried to replicate this, but failed spectacularly!