Understanding why people give up

[Team Lang]

First I bought a Bushnell 675 x 4.5” Reflector Telescope
Model 78-9675 with equatorial mount.

Considering the only the moon, Saturn and Jupiter are all I can really see I understand why telescopes are a dime a dozen

I'm on disability so money is tight for me like everyone else but there has to be a affordable option for what I have.

The 12.5 and 8 lenses and. Barlow is what I have, the Barlow us useless, no matter how I set it or we which eyepiece I use it either won't focus or it's no different than w he at I see we with the 12.5

What can I do so I can actually see Saturn and Pluto as more than a pin head size object that I can just identify the planet.

Any equipment needs to be affordable, this is a new hobby and finding another is not an option and yes I know I bought a poor scope but there has to be something other than over insure it and hope it gets stolen

Pictures are the best I get of the moon snd Saturn  albeit Saturday but is clearer, I'm holding the camera and trying not to jiggle anything

 

[banjaxed]

Astronomy can be very frustrating but it can also be very rewarding, you just need lots of patience and a willingness to learn. Keep at it and you will get there.

[badgerchap]

Time, practice and learning are more important than kit. Even naked eye astronomy can be massively rewarding if you can learn about what you're looking at. Don't be intimidated by the incredible shots you see on here and elsewhere - as impressive as they are, they're no substitute for losing yourself among the stars of an evening.

[Cosmic Geoff]

9 hours ago, Team Lang said:

Any equipment needs to be affordable, this is a new hobby and finding another is not an option and yes I know I bought a POS but there has to be something other than over insure it and hope it gets stolen

Sadly,  astronomical equipment is not cheap and the lowest priced scopes available from department stores, Amazon, etc include a lot of rubbish that beginners will find under-performing, frustrating and hard to use.  The cheapest items from leading brands may be no better.  It is possble, with the right advice, to find equipment that is of decent quality and relatively inexpensive.  See, for instance, the 'beginners' section of forum sponsors FLO.

Bargains can be had on the second-hand market, but this can require the ability to tell a good one from a dud, an ability to make adjustments to unfamiliar kit, and some luck.

I don't know if it is possible to improve your Bushnell by adjustment or buying accessories, but ask us.

[DaveL59]

as others have said, it requires a lot of patience. Also for taking pics with the phone, are you a wearer of glasses normally, or for reading? I found that I don't wear mine at the scope and when I get focus for my eyes a phone pic at the eyepiece is always a little out of focus, took me a while to twig to that one. 

[Starwatcher2001]

I suspect that the majority of people who take up astronomy are initially disappointed when they first realise what they'll see through the eyepiece won't look anything like the images in the magazines. Unless of course they are prepared to spend a lot of money and time learning. Sadly a good number give up, which is a shame, because with a bit of patience and understanding even a small instrument can be quite rewarding. 

My first telescope was a 70mm refractor with 0.965" plastic eyepieces and it satisfied me for 18 months or so. I learned the basics of star-hopping and went for targets that were practical: planets, moon, open clusters, planetary nebulas, the bigger globulars, and doubles that I developed a passion for. Sure, many of them looked like fuzzy blobs, but the fact I could find them and appreciate just what they were was amazing. Those exact photons that were making up the images had travelled across the galaxy for tens of thousands of years and I was the only person to see them. Finding and seeing the ring nebular looked like the tiniest of donuts, but was clearly not a normal star, the gas shell was a star in it's death throes. I then spent months hunting for doubles that I could split in my small scope, and seeing if I could discern colour differences. By lowering my expectations, I got a lot of pleasure from what could observe.

Jupiter and Saturn are not well placed right now for observing, so it's going to be especially tough with a smaller instrument. I'd suggest not worrying about photos, I never managed to get anything decent though mine, and just concentrate on getting as good focus as you can, not touching the telescope, and just watching it drift across the eyepiece and observing what you can. With a bit of experience, you'll find you'll make out more, and maybe see some of those "faint fuzzies" that were once beyond you. Certainly as the nights start getting properly dark, you'll see more and more.

What's the Bushnell like looking at stars, are they pin-point or do they look like little comets?  I'm wondering if checking the collimation might give you better views?

All the best,

Mark

 

[Tenor Viol]

If you're using your phone to take pics, get a proper phone holder if you haven't got one to link it to your telescope. Download an app which provides more control over the phone's camera so you can adjust the exposure. It will take some trial and error to get the best for the Moon. Jupiter and Saturn are very poorly placed being very low - good views of them is going to be hard. 

Edited August 4, 2020 by Tenor Viol

[Starwiz]

11 hours ago, Team Lang said:

What can I do so I can actually see Saturn and Pluto as more than a pin head size object that I can just identify the planet.

Saturn, you should be able to see the rings.  Pluto will never look anything more than a point of light from Earth, it is so distant and small.  You can identify Pluto by viewing it's movement against the background stars night after night.

The real joy in astronomy comes from learning and understanding what you are viewing.  And just remember, you are seeing things only a tiny fraction of humanity get to see with their own eyes.

John

[Stu]

First thing, forget Pluto, I’ve yet to see it after 20 years in the hobby; tiny and very faint so you need a big scope and dark skies to see it, plus bags of patience.

There are some good value beginner scopes out there. The Heritage 130p and 150P are excellent value and also excellent quality scopes. They have sturdy Dobsonian mounts which are so much better that the flimsy EQ mounts on offer, and which you have. Wobbly scopes are frustrating enough to put people off.

There are things you can do to reduce vibration on the scope, and I would just recommend you take your time and be patient. Astronomy is a life long hobby and you are always learning, that’s what makes it so interesting.

[Team Lang]

I was out again last night as I am every night and I think I'm going to have to start going out after 2 am for more options.

As far as the scope goes I do wear glasses but not while scoping unless I'm randomly checking that the finder scope is aligned.

Stars are just dots which is all I was really expecting, I knew I would never see moon rover tracks or follow ISS as it passed over.

At 52 I finally got to see Saturn with my own eyes so it was worth that much to me but on the same hand it has me wanting to see more, my situation is what's frustrating and making things difficult for me but if I can keep making little improvements here and there that help it'll keep me trying.

[DaveL59]

defo keep using it and learning as you go. The scopes I use most I guess are an old russian TAL-M (80mm) and TAL-1 (110mm) being the easiest ones I have to just pop out into the garden and they view the moon, Jupiter and Saturn pretty well. I guess you're using the supplied eyepieces (H20, H12 and SR4? tho you state different so perhaps things have changed) and that's likely going to limit you more than anything else. The barlow is a x3 from the manual I found online? This will only be useful with the 12mm and be pushing the optical limit of the scope.

Once you are happy with using the scope and want to do more, upgrading the eyepieces to something better may well provide a marked improvement, with the benefit that you can retain those for use on another scope if you choose to upgrade after a while. You'd need to determine if the eyepieces are 1.25-inch barrel or the smaller 0.965 inch, if the latter they are hard to find good quality versions these days, being of a time past. For the 1.25-inch eyepieces there's quite a range to choose from without breaking the bank too much and folks here would be happy to suggest options.

[Guest]

As other's have pointed out, many people give up because they have unrealistic expectations of what they'll see, i.e. Hubble like images...  Here in the UK, another reason would be the poor weather that we often have, rain/overcast skies, etc.   I live in south west Scotland where the skies are often battleship grey for most of the year, or so it seems!😒

Edited August 3, 2020 by Guest

[John]

I think some people find visual and / or imaging astronomy quite a lot harder than they thought it would be to get satisfactory results and this may well be the reason that they give up.

I have often said on here that I don't feel that practical astronomy is a matter where many "quick wins" are available. A few perhaps but once those straightforward objects are observed or imaged then the challenge curve steepens quite suddently to get onto the successively more advanced levels.

Spending lots of time on fine tuning equipment and skills, investing in more specialised items, late nights, poor seeing, increasing light pollution, there are a host of challenges and it's certainly not "plug and play"

 

 

 

[ScouseSpaceCadet]

22 hours ago, merlin100 said:

As other's have pointed out, many people give up because they have unrealistic expectations of what they'll see, i.e. Hubble like images...  Here in the UK, another reason would be the poor weather that we often have, rain/overcast skies, etc.   I live in south west Scotland where the skies are often battleship grey for most of the year, or so it seems!😒

After that first telescope purchase we certainly notice the clouds more than before! 🙄

[wookie1965]

Well I have been thing of giving up I can count the amount of times I have been out this year on one hand, I have not been out now for over 3 weeks and the weather does not show any sign of changing for the better over the next two weeks.

[Moonshed]

22 hours ago, merlin100 said:

As other's have pointed out, many people give up because they have unrealistic expectations of what they'll see, i.e. Hubble like images...  Here in the UK, another reason would be the poor weather that we often have, rain/overcast skies, etc.   I live in south west Scotland where the skies are often battleship grey for most of the year, or so it seems!😒

Hi merlin100,

Having lived in Scotland for 20 years I know exactly what you mean about the weather there, I lived in Beith, North Ayrshire and if it wasn’t raining it was because it was snowing! I bought my first serious ‘scope there, the one I have now, an 8”Celestron.

I have now retired to North Norfolk and the difference is remarkable, so many more clear skies, but you can still almost guarantee that for any special event, such as the peak of the Perseid meteor shower, it will be cloudy, this is an inescapable fact of astronomy no matter where you live.  
I also agree that many beginners have unrealistic expectations being raised on spectacular images from the HST and others, but I find seeing these amazing objects with your own eyes, or taking your own photos, is a far more rewarding experience.

Keith

[banjaxed]

Over the past few weeks I have bought 2 new eyepieces and have not yet had a chance to try them 🙁

[Craney]

My spin on this is that you have to  'enjoy' the experience in one form or another.

Either ...That means you get a buzz from  seeing the reality of the Universe..... from having a beer on the back porch and seeing the ISS ...to teasing out  the Jet from M87  data after several nights of collected subs.   It all connects you with the bigger picture which is quite life affirming.

Or..... you maybe just like to be under the stars   ( Ok...the Sun as well for our Solar buddies),  with a bit of solitude and that feeling that you are set apart from the full-tilt life style the rest of the world seem intent on pursuing (!!!)......

Some quite remarkable pictures can be taken with very modest equipment.  We all get sucked into the  gear vortex at some stage and it is a question of how long you can fend it off.

For me, learning is all part of the 'fun'... well yes, because it is a joyous moment when you realise what you were doing wrong or you finally get a result you are proud of.

Here is one of my first astro-photos from my second time around 2015 (  always interested as a kid but never had a camera and that extra 10% of determination).

but what spurred me on... was my inner voice saying..." I can do better than that ".......   and off I went !!!!!

( Total Lunar eclipse taken with Canon compact camera, handheld in the garden leaning against a washing line post !!)

Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

sean.

 

Edited August 4, 2020 by Craney

[Guest]

1 hour ago, ScouseSpaceCadet said:

After that first telescope purchase we certainly notice the clouds more than before! 🙄

Ain't that the truth! 🙄

[Guest]

1 hour ago, wookie1965 said:

Well I have been thing of giving up I can count the amount of times I have been out this year on one hand, I have not been out now for over 3 weeks and the weather does not show any sign of changing for the better over the next two weeks.

I've not done any decent observing since early June. 🤬

[Guest]

50 minutes ago, Moonshed said:

Hi merlin100,

Having lived in Scotland for 20 years I know exactly what you mean about the weather there, I lived in Beith, North Ayrshire and if it wasn’t raining it was because it was snowing! I bought my first serious ‘scope there, the one I have now, an 8”Celestron.

I have now retired to North Norfolk and the difference is remarkable, so many more clear skies, but you can still almost guarantee that for any special event, such as the peak of the Perseid meteor shower, it will be cloudy, this is an inescapable fact of astronomy no matter where you live.  
I also agree that many beginners have unrealistic expectations being raised on spectacular images from the HST and others, but I find seeing these amazing objects with your own eyes, or taking your own photos, is a far more rewarding experience.

Keith

I think that maybe due to living on the east coast of the UK. My friend moved from North Ayrshire just over 2 years ago to Morecambe and their weather is very similar to our's... 

[m.tweedy]

Something that has not yet been mentioned is see if there is a local Astronomical Society. Like minded people sharing the same hobby is something that adds a great amount to my  enjoyment. Even on a cloudy/rainy night (we get a lot of them in North East England) just chatting and sharing ideas and experiences makes it worthwhile (Covid is however playing havoc with that).

You have vast areas of dark skies that can be shared with others. What I know of any astronomer i have come across is they are friendly, do not ridicule and are willing to share (experiences/equipment (possibly not at the moment). Maybe join an online forum or online astronomical club.

Learn to live with what you have and improve slowly over time (both equipment and knowledge). Set your expectations at a realistic level.

Before long you will no longer be a newby and will be sharing your knowledge with those who are new to the hobby with a similar set up to you.

Then you will think YES I am glad i stuck with it.

Edited August 4, 2020 by m.tweedy
additional info

[Hals]

On 01/08/2020 at 11:07, badgerchap said:

Time, practice and learning are more important than kit. Even naked eye astronomy can be massively rewarding if you can learn about what you're looking at. Don't be intimidated by the incredible shots you see on here and elsewhere - as impressive as they are, they're no substitute for losing yourself among the stars of an evening.

This 👍

[Guest]

Even though the weather has been appalling up here for nearly two months, it makes me cherish the opportunity I get when there is a clear weather window that opens up.😉

Edited August 4, 2020 by Guest

[tomato]

And if you do get deep into the equipment side, it can be very rewarding designing and building ancillary equipment. 
Myself and @Tomatobro have just got the powered shutter working in automatic mode on the dome, it’s only opened on cloudy skies to date but a real buzz to see it working.