AZ GTi Nothing But Issues - Accuracy Apalling

[dd999]

Before speaking to the retailer this was purchased with, I want to see if anyone's experiences with the AZ GTi goto mount. I have used this a number of times now, all seemingly with the same result. The goto accuracy is appallingly shocking. I mean really shocking.

I set up the telescope (on the correct side) and point the telescope North. I carry out a two star alignment (this is usually Altair and Dubhe - but I've tried other combos). I then manually centre whichever star is first - first with a 25mm eyepiece, then swap to a 10mm to really fine tune the centre. After first star is confirmed, it slews off to find the next - which is generally not in a 25mm field of vision. I then manually centre (mainly using a red dot finder) and confirm to the AZ GTi once it's centred in my 10mm eyepiece. The Synscan app shows it's now aligned and ready to start.

At this point even finding anything bright such as Jupiter or Saturn is a challenge. It will not slew it close enough to view in a 25mm eyepiece. I have to use a red dot finder to manually bring it closer, then once it's centred I confirm to the app again.

Last night I went from Jupiter to Saturn - and again it was far enough out that it wasn't visible in my 25mm eyepiece! Which is crazy considering how close these two objects are in the sky atm..... once though I'm centered it tracks the object pretty well even in a 10mm eyepiece for at least 10-15mins.

I level off the tripod at the start of the night, and have made sure date, time and coordinates are accurate. It's becoming really frustrating. 

Since buying the mount last month I haven't upgraded any firmware, and just using the Synscan app to control (tried both Synscan and Synscan Pro).

Does anyone have any other suggestions before I contact the retailer as a possible faulty model?

  

Edited July 29, 2020 by dd999

[Owmuchonomy]

Usually this mount is extremely reliable.  Can you let us know what scope you are using please (focal length).  Also, you mention you point the scope North.  Just to confirm if you are doing a North Level alignment via the Synscan Pro App the scope should be level and pointing to true north not magnetic north.  Just to be sure can you post a photo to show us which side your scope is mounted when pointing North.  Thanks.

[johninderby]

Sounds like the typical,problems you get when the location and date are entered in the wrong format. 

This app will give the correct info.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.RapidoDroid.synscaninit2&hl=en_GB

Edited July 29, 2020 by johninderby

[dd999]

9 minutes ago, Owmuchonomy said:

Usually this mount is extremely reliable.  Can you let us know what scope you are using please (focal length).  Also, you mention you point the scope North.  Just to confirm if you are doing a North Level alignment via the Synscan Pro App the scope should be level and pointing to true north not magnetic north.  Just to be sure can you post a photo to show us which side your scope is mounted when pointing North.  Thanks.

Yes sure - it's a Skywatcher 130p scope .... so focal length is 650mm

I did read that even if you begin with a two star alignment it's 'best' to have the telescope pointing North before you start. Maybe this isn't needed.

Here is a photo I've just taken, which matches how I would start the night. The house in the background is to my north

 

 

 

[dd999]

25 minutes ago, johninderby said:

Sounds like the typical,problems you get when the location and date are entered in thebwrong format. 

This app will give the correct info.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.RapidoDroid.synscaninit2&hl=en_GB

I just downloaded this app. I opened it - and went to open the Synscan app to see the settings there, and the Synscan app popped up a message to say 'Location updated' ..... maybe my location settings were not as accurate as I thought!

The Synscan app now matches the coordinates in this Synscaninit app ...... I'll have to wait for clear skies tomorrow night, but perhaps this location update may solve the problem! Thanks  

[johninderby]

Having to enter things in the US format catches out a lot of people. Hopefully sorted now. 👍🏻

[Stu1smartcookie]

I've had a couple of these mounts ... three actually ! one was faulty , the other two were fine . After looking at your photo , do you not have to have the scope level at the time of alignment ,

If you were using the mount in AZ mode ? I only used mine in EQ mode so if im talking rubbish please forgive me .

[dd999]

5 minutes ago, Stu1smartcookie said:

I've had a couple of these mounts ... three actually ! one was faulty , the other two were fine . After looking at your photo , do you not have to have the scope level at the time of alignment ,

If you were using the mount in AZ mode ? I only used mine in EQ mode so if im talking rubbish please forgive me .

I've not heard of this. I guess as once you select your first star you have to slew manually to go find it, I'm not sure it would make a difference - but happy to try anything at this stage!

And yes using in AZ mode atm (waiting on my counterweight and bar to change to an EQ mount).

I have heard there are some faulty models out there, so if the location update doesn't help - and we run out of things to try lol - I may have to contact the retailer as this could be one of the faulty ones

[Stu1smartcookie]

19 minutes ago, dd999 said:

I've not heard of this. I guess as once you select your first star you have to slew manually to go find it, I'm not sure it would make a difference - but happy to try anything at this stage!

And yes using in AZ mode atm (waiting on my counterweight and bar to change to an EQ mount).

I have heard there are some faulty models out there, so if the location update doesn't help - and we run out of things to try lol - I may have to contact the retailer as this could be one of the faulty ones

The one i had which was faulty was due to the motors or gears slipping rather than an alignment issue ( freaked me out to see my little z61 and dslr "falling" albeit fortunately still attached to the mount ). These are great little mounts but , like anything there can be problems . I hope you get this sorted . 

[banjaxed]

As  previously mentioned the OTA has to be level and pointing north. Have a look on YouTube for the Astronomy and Nature review on this mount as he explains it very well IMO.

[dd999]

9 minutes ago, Stu1smartcookie said:

The one i had which was faulty was due to the motors or gears slipping rather than an alignment issue ( freaked me out to see my little z61 and dslr "falling" albeit fortunately still attached to the mount ). These are great little mounts but , like anything there can be problems . I hope you get this sorted . 

Must have been a heart in mouth moment!

Thanks!

[dd999]

Just now, banjaxed said:

As  previously mentioned the OTA has to be level and pointing north. Have a look on YouTube for the Astronomy and Nature review on this mount as he explains it very well IMO.

Thanks - I will take a look

[laudropb]

If you are using the North level alignment then the scope must be level to begin with.

[dd999]

8 minutes ago, laudropb said:

If you are using the North level alignment then the scope must be level to begin with.

No, I always use the two star alignment. Will this also require a north level alignment and a level scope to start?

[laudropb]

Not sure about this. I have only used the North level alignment. After set up you still have to align 2 stars.  I have found that this has always put the alignment stars in the field of view. I centre accurately using a reticle eyepiece and have then found the go to to be very accurate.

[ScouseSpaceCadet]

5 hours ago, dd999 said:

No, I always use the two star alignment. Will this also require a north level alignment and a level scope to start?

In my experience, pointing the telescope north and level is required for all the alignment modes... Also make sure the Synscan app has location permission. It's not automatic, you have to set location permission yourself via the phone's app settimgs.

Another tip, always finish an alignment with a right and up slew. Don't worry about swapping eyepieces during the alignment process, just get the object centred in the 25mm. You can adjust the position in your shorter focal eyepieces later as required.

 

 

Edited July 29, 2020 by ScouseSpaceCadet

[dd999]

49 minutes ago, ScouseSpaceCadet said:

In my experience, pointing the telescope north and level is required for all the alignment modes... Also make sure the Synscan app has location permission. It's not automatic, you have to set location permission yourself via the phone's app settimgs.

Another tip, always finish an alignment with a right and up slew. Don't worry about swapping eyepieces during the alignment process, just get the object centred in the 25mm. You can adjust the position in your shorter focal eyepieces later as required.

 

 

Thanks - I have given permission to Synscan for location but I'm going to give all these a try on my next session - fingers crossed it'll be tonight if these clouds play ball

[fireballxl5]

Sounds like you may have solved your problem,  especially if you aren't currently leveling the scope for initial alignment.  One more thing to try is to enable the auxillary encoder in the Settings menu. This may indicate that the main encoder is faulty or contaminated. 

Good luck as it's quite a capable mount considering it's price. 

HTH, Andy

[Gfamily]

7 hours ago, dd999 said:

No, I always use the two star alignment. Will this also require a north level alignment and a level scope to start?

Last time I took it out, I knew I only had a few minutes to set up as clouds were building up, so I did a 2 star align, even though only Altair was properly visible from my location.

I selected Arcturus as the second star (even though it wasn't visible). Centred on Altair, let it head off in the general direction of Arcturus, up-and-right a tiny bit to let me hit the OK button, and then set it to find Saturn.

It wasn't in the 32mm eyepiece, but it was very close - easily in the finder.

I know there are some iffy ones around, but it can be a very easy mount to align.

This was using the app in alt-az mode.

So, in response to your question, no; two star align starts with the first star. 

Level and North is an option when you're not sure which stars you're looking at (or for a daytime/early evening alignment when finding stars isn't easy).

Edited July 29, 2020 by Gfamily

[dd999]

After many positive notes on this mount, I tried again tonight - and feel a night wasted again! I'm pretty convinced this one is faulty. Being a gadget fiend and all-round tech geek, gizmos like this don't usually phase me - but this one has me stumped!

I started the night this time with a North alignment. Pointed the scope exactly North using a compass and made sure the scope was level. I chose Arcturus as the first star and off it slewed. To start with it pointed to the ground (i.e. below the horizon!). Persevering, I hit the reset alignment button on the Synscan app, pointed the telescope back to north (and levelled) and started again. This time it took off and was relatively close to Arcturus. Not quite in the 25mm eye piece field, but close. I manually directed Arcturus to the center of my view and hit confirm. Off it went again, this time to Altair. I was hoping it would have been in my 25mm eyepiece, but no it was just outside again. I manually corrected this, and with Altair in the center of my view I hit confirm. OK, now ready to go!

I went to M13 (Hercules cluster) and again although not in 25mm field of view (which was a little frustrating), it was again just outside. Stayed on M13 a while before heading over to Jupiter - again not in field of 25mm view, so manually centered.

I decided to test this out - and literally just went back and forth between Jupiter and Saturn. Each time the mount not remembering my manual correction to center the planets - and each time it took me to the same place it 'thought' the planets were originally. I thought the point of the manual correction is to teach and show where objects actually were. No matter how many times I centered the view on Jupiter, and went to Saturn (and centered) to then go back to Jupiter and be outside my 25mm field of view again.

The tripod was level, and I used the suggested SynscanInit app to make sure I have the right position stored in the Synscan app - which I do.

I don't know if this photo will come out ok to illustrate, but after around 4 or 5 times back and forth between Jupiter and Saturn (and manually centering each time), this is the view from the red dot finder - with Saturn to the left and slightly above - after hitting goto towards Saturn for about the 5th or 6th time! Surely it should be more accurate than this or am I being over-demanding on this mount!?

 

 

Edited July 29, 2020 by dd999

[rob_r]

 

13 hours ago, dd999 said:

To start with it pointed to the ground (i.e. below the horizon!).

My AZ GTI mount does this sometimes too, I concluded it was due to low power. How are you powering it? Via batteries or a power tank? I have a 12v power tank and my mount started drifting down as the power drained.

Edited July 30, 2020 by rob_r

[laudropb]

I think your unit must be faulty. I really don’t have these issues with mine. Go To targets are always in the field of view and usually pretty central.  The more targets I look at the more accurate the go to is.

[dd999]

39 minutes ago, rob_r said:

 

My AZ GTI mount does this sometimes too, I concluded it was due to low power. How are you powering it? Via batteries or a power tank? I have a 12v power tank and my mount started drifting down as the power drained.

It was the first time it ever did this and I think it was because it still had old coordinates stored from the last session (the distance the scope moved would make sense between where I was last and where Acturus would have been). 

I am running though on batteries. I did think power but considering each slew put the same target in exactly the same spot time and time again (just not in the 25mm eyepiece dispite the manual adjustments to center) made me think it wasn't this. 

I even hit goto on an object, manually centre and hit confirm. Then 2 mins later if I goto the same object I'm on it takes me back to where it originally thought the object was - not where I have manually centered and confirmed it is. 

Tbh it's never been accurate from the day I bought it

Edited July 30, 2020 by dd999

[dd999]

I have noticed on the Synscan app that 'auxillary encoder' is switched to off. 

Someone above mentioned it should be on. 

Could this have anything to do with the issues I'm facing? 

It just seems that the manual corrections I'm making to centre the object in the eyepiece aren't being remembered for the next goto or when I go back to the same object on the same night 

[laudropb]

Using the auxiliary coder is supposed to decrease the accuracy of the go to. It enables freedom find, but I think it’s worth a try. Also making your last movement when centring an object  a move to the right and up does make a slight difference in accuracy.