12 mm Delos or 12.5 mm Morpheus

[Alan White]

I have a 12.5 mm Morpheus on loan at present and with glasses it's super in my two scopes, 
but the field stop is not razor sharp, it has a slight fuzz to it.

So at 12 mm the other option at far more 'wonga' is the Delos ,
(which has the 'added' feature of an undercut GRRRR), but does the field stop show as sharp?

Even with such a huge price difference, I might just consider a Delos as an option.

 

Edited July 21, 2020 by Alan White
typos of course

[JOC]

35 minutes ago, Alan White said:

filed stop is not razor sharp, it has a slight fuzz to it.

I did not comprehend this when you ran it past me the other day, but I'll ask now: 'the field stop is not razor sharp' what does this actually mean in practice in terms I can make sense of please?  If I know I can look to see if mine has a similar issue.

[Alan White]

JOC sorry if this is simplistic:

The outer edge of the field of view is the metal field stop on a eyepiece.
Some show as a sharp edge to your eye, others don't and look fuzzy.
It's something that bothers you or not, sadly for me it does and takes away from the Morpheus experience.
I wish it didn't as I like everything else!

[John]

I ought not to but I do find a fuzzy field stop really annoying as well !

It does not affect the operation of the eyepiece though and the Morpheus otherwise will be delivering probably comparable optical quality to the Delos.

Maybe it's just your Morpheus 12.5 or is it generally found with these eyepieces ?

The 2 Delos that I have (17.3mm and 14mm) have razor sharp field stops but you probably don't want to hear that

[johnturley]

12 minutes ago, John said:

I ought not to but I do find a fuzzy field stop really annoying as well !

 

I agree, the 17.5 mm Morpheus however does have a fairly sharp field stop, maybe the 12.5 is different.

One reason I tend to prefer the Nager T6's to the ES 82's is the sharper and better defined field stop.

John 

[Don Pensack]

If the field stop is not in focus, it means it may not be placed at a point your vision can accommodate.

The very first batch of TeleVue Delites got a lot of comments about out of focus field stops.

Fortunately, on those eyepieces the field stops are user adjustable, so an attempt was made to find the optimum position for the field stop.

And it is not at the 20/20 vision infinity point, it turns out because we tend to focus closer when examining something.  It's innate.

So the sharpest position for the field stop proved to be a little nearer the eye than the 20/20 infinity point.

And, as a dealer, I was given those locations so I could correct my stock and give the information to users in case they wanted to increase the field stop sharpness on their own eyepieces.

All of TeleVue's stock and later productions were positioned at the factory, so the issue quickly went away.

But, prior to that, it hadn't occurred to me that a person's vision would make a difference in the sharpness of the field stop in an eyepiece.

Many near-sighted people who don't have astigmatism simply remove their glasses and focus the telescope.

That works great for focusing the field, but often results in an out of focus field stop.

Of course, in most eyepieces, the field stop is not easily user-adjustable, so out of focus field stops are often an issue.

I use empirical evidence to decide--if my glasses see a sharper field stop than my use of the eyepiece without glasses, then I use my glasses.

Or vice versa.

Because, like all of you, if the eyepiece has a field stop I actually look at (say, 80° or less of apparent field), I prefer it to be in focus.

If the eyepiece is so wide I have to look through the eyepiece at a 50° angle to see it, I really don't care.

Edited July 21, 2020 by Don Pensack

[Alan White]

2 hours ago, John said:

The 2 Delos that I have (17.3mm and 14mm) have razor sharp field stops but you probably don't want to hear that

In a way I do John, helps me make my mind up,
my wallet does not like the sound of this though.
 

[Alan White]

@Don Pensack thank you, that's interesting.
Sadly at 12 mm and above, I need glasses on for my astigmatism, so it is the only choice that works for me.
In the DeLites I had, the field stops were sharp as were the ones in the Pentax XW.
This is why I was a bit bemused on the Morpheus, being sealed adjustment is obviously not an option.

[John]

Yes, the XW's also have razor sharp field stops.

 

[Alan White]

8 minutes ago, John said:

Yes, the XW's also have razor sharp field stops.

Now that's another answer my wallet didn't wish to hear.
 

[Graham Darke]

I have the 12mm Delos and it’s currently my favourite eyepiece. I wear specs and find it perfect with or without. 

[Alan White]

18 minutes ago, Graham Darke said:

I have the 12mm Delos and it’s currently my favourite eyepiece. I wear specs and find it perfect with or without. 

Good to hear Graham, but is the field stop razor sharp to your eyes?

Edited July 21, 2020 by Alan White

[Graham Darke]

It is. 

[Paul73]

At least with Delos, you know that you are getting the best there is..... there is a considerable saving time be made buying second hand. Delos owners generally look after their eyepieces.

Paul

[Highburymark]

18 hours ago, Paul73 said:

At least with Delos, you know that you are getting the best there is..... there is a considerable saving time be made buying second hand. Delos owners generally look after their eyepieces.

Paul

I’d agree. The Delos I owned were pretty much perfection, with sharp field stops. Only reason I traded them in for Delites was because I wanted a lighter set up. 

[Alan White]

Thank you for all the answers folks.
I had a good idea what you would say anyway,
but sometimes asking and getting confirmation is a good things.

I have to say me dislike of undercuts has slewed my thinking here, 
the DeLites I had and sold were great, they really were, sold over raising funds and undercuts.

Realising my varying recent mistakes has been a tad expensive, but lessons learned.
You know what you like once it's gone!

[Louis D]

7 hours ago, Alan White said:

Thank you for all the answers folks.
I had a good idea what you would say anyway,
but sometimes asking and getting confirmation is a good things.

I have to say me dislike of undercuts has slewed my thinking here, 
the DeLites I had and sold were great, they really were, sold over raising funds and undercuts.

Realising my varying recent mistakes has been a tad expensive, but lessons learned.
You know what you like once it's gone!

At this focal length, there's also the APM High eye relief Flat-Wide 84 degree 12.5mm to consider.  It seems to be well reviewed except for some possible EOFB.  It has no undercut on it's insertion barrel.

Edited July 23, 2020 by Louis D

[Paz]

I've had Delos for a few years now (all of them except the 14mm) and use them with and without glasses. I've not noticed any issue with the field stop focus.

[Alan White]

So as an update, slightly slid from my initial post.
The kindly loaned Morpeheus is winging its way home, thank you so much for the loan.
It was very nice indeed and I can see why folks like them.
However it was not for me t present, our eyes and perceptions all differ on eyepieces.

I have now purchased a used Pentax XW in 10 mm flavour and we will see how I go.
Some more either side may / will be required,so Delos / DeLite or more XW to come no doubt.

Again, thanks for everyone's input to my questions, appreciated as always.

[Barry-W-Fenner]

Thanks for posting Alan, I have been reading this thread with great interest as I am quite interested in purchasing a 14mm Morpheus for my 300p

I think the Morpheus will serve me well to be honest as I have no experience with "high end" eye pieces so doubt any of the above will be of much concern to my eye. From a performance point of view did you think the Morpheus performed well for the in relation to there cost? Would I notice the step up from say my 15mm BST for example?

Thanks Alan

Regards

 

Baz

[Alan White]

Yes, the step up would notice but more in the field of view, its very immersive.
But as said before once you hit this price point and above, each step is very small.
I recommend the Morpheus, just like all the others in this thread (Delos, XW etc.),
but its a like it or not thing with every makers bit of kit.

 

[Louis D]

5 hours ago, Barry-W-Fenner said:

I think the Morpheus will serve me well to be honest as I have no experience with "high end" eye pieces so doubt any of the above will be of much concern to my eye. From a performance point of view did you think the Morpheus performed well for the in relation to there cost? Would I notice the step up from say my 15mm BST for example?

The 14mm Morpheus is way better corrected in the outer field in faster scopes than the 15mm BST.  On axis, the difference is much more muted.  See my comparison image below taken through my f/6 AT72ED with field flattener.

[John]

On axis, most of today's eyepieces do pretty well.

 

[Barry-W-Fenner]

3 minutes ago, John said:

On axis, most of today's eyepieces do pretty well.

 

Sorry chaps, what does the term on axis mean from a viewing perspective

[John]

24 minutes ago, Barry-W-Fenner said:

Sorry chaps, what does the term on axis mean from a viewing perspective

The central part of the field of view.