ASI 174MM connection problem

[Astrokev]

Hi All

Hoping someone can help with this frustrating problem -

I've just bought a new ASI174MM and used it yesterday for the first time.

I plugged it into a StarTech 7 port USB 3.0 hub on my pier. The hub is connected to my laptop in a warm room. The cable is approx. 4m long.

ASICAP did not detect the camera. However the software can see my ASI120 camera which is plugged into the hub, without problem. When I tried plugging the 174MM directly into the laptop, it was detected straight away. I tried plugging it back into the hub - no joy.

I then tried powering the hub, thinking this may have been the problem. The 174MM was still undetected. I tried different ports in the hub, and tried unplugging other devices from the hub but this made no difference.

I was able to use the camera by plugging it into the laptop directly and it worked fine like this, but this is not how I want to use it since it means moving the lappy into the warm room doorway to allow the cable to reach.

Please can anyone suggest why it's not being detected?

Thanks for any help

Kev

[Zakalwe]

USB3 is very sensitive to cable quality and length. I have the same camera and it would work on a 4 metre USB 3 cable. I know use the shortest cable possible from the camera to a powered quality USB 3 hub. I have nothing else plugged into that hub.

I wouldn't use an unpowered hub with this at all. Try changing the cables too, the quality really does vary.

[Astrokev]

22 hours ago, Zakalwe said:

USB3 is very sensitive to cable quality and length. I have the same camera and it would work on a 4 metre USB 3 cable. I know use the shortest cable possible from the camera to a powered quality USB 3 hub. I have nothing else plugged into that hub.

I wouldn't use an unpowered hub with this at all. Try changing the cables too, the quality really does vary.

Thank you, that's helpful advice.

The StarTech hub is a good quality one, which was recommended by a knowledgeable IT expert, so I'm pretty sure that's fine. I will check the cables though, and see if it's possible to get a shorter and/or better quality one, at least to test that this is the cause.

Thanks again. Watch this space!

[Rusted]

I had exactly the same problem with my '174.
No luck in a [recommended] Startech USB 3 hub. Works fine straight into the laptop.
I bought a 3m USB3 cable for it and that worked fine until it was badly stretched by an errant slew.
Gone back to the 2m flat ZWO cable until I can replace the damaged cable.

[Zakalwe]

I use Orico hubs and they seem to work. Even so, I found that some cables would just not work over a longer length. I guess it might depend on the quality of the conductors and what not.

[Astrokev]

On 21/07/2020 at 18:59, Rusted said:

I had exactly the same problem with my '174.
No luck in a [recommended] Startech USB 3 hub. Works fine straight into the laptop.
I bought a 3m USB3 cable for it and that worked fine until it was badly stretched by an errant slew.
Gone back to the 2m flat ZWO cable until I can replace the damaged cable.

Thanks Rusted.  That doesn't sound too encouraging then - maybe I won't be able to get it to work through the hub, which will be a bit annoying since that's the whole point of having a hub! This puts me in a bit of a dilemma. I'll check out shorter cables with the hub, just to confirm whether it's a cable length issue, or whether the hub is just incompatible for some other reason.

If I can't get the hub to work, I'll need a direct camera to laptop cable of about 5 metres to be safe.  Can you get reliable USB 3 cables of that length?

[Astrokev]

On 21/07/2020 at 22:00, Zakalwe said:

I use Orico hubs and they seem to work. Even so, I found that some cables would just not work over a longer length. I guess it might depend on the quality of the conductors and what not.

Thanks. The hub is powered, so I was under the impression that this removes the cable length constraint (to a degree)?

[Rusted]

Kev,

I just dug out a 1m USB3 male/female extension cable and added it to my existing 3m USB3 camera cable.
The camera still seems to work fine. So 4m works.
As does the 1m USB3 extension plus the ZWO 2m flat cable.

Sorry I was mistaken on the Startech hub. That was my old USB3 to multi-socket USB2 hub.
I missed the USB2 sockets in the website description and had to order an all USB3 hub.

The new one is a no name USB3 to 4 x USB3 "High Speed" hub. Driven by the laptop.
It works fine with my USB dongles for wireless mouse and keyboard.
But NOT with the ASCOM/AWR drives PC serial adapter cable!

When I plugged the 2m ZWO cable for the 174 into the hub the mouse and keyboard stopped working and the camera is not recognized.
Not even a beep. Like you get when plugging the camera straight into laptop.

Even with the 2m ZWO cable straight into my fast laptop SharpCap crashes when I choose Mono16 in larger frame sizes! Only Mono8!

[Astrokev]

4 hours ago, Rusted said:

 

Just been out to have a play. To make it easier to visualise what I did, I've attached a pretty annotated picture -

I plugged everything in as shown in the diagram. The 120 was detected fine, the 174 was not detected (this was good, as it replicated the initial problem).

I then tried plugging the 174 directly into laptop with the ZWO cable. Both cameras were detected fine. This suggested the problem was either - the hub, total cable length being too long or faulty connection between 2 and 5m cables.

I then plugged the 174 back into the hub, and plugged the hub into the laptop with just the StarTech 1m cable, taking the 5m cable out of the setup. 174 and 120 both detected fine by ASICAP software, suggesting the hub was OK. This pointed the problem to either - the 5m Lindy cable + 1m StarTech cable run being too long, or the connector being faulty (I did not have the hub powered at this point).

Having established the hub was OK I reconnected everything as shown in the diagram. Surprisingly, both cameras were detected fine this time.  This suggested the problem may have been a poor connection between the 1m and 5m cables. I unplugged everything and reconnected as shown, making sure the connections were sound. Everything seemed to work.

So, problem solved (?).  I'll be monitoring with interest once I use it for real.

 

 

[Zakalwe]

Youight be exceeding the total number of hubs allowable?

Personally I think it's down to cable length. Active cables can be glitchy. Either shorten the cable to the laptop or investigate USB3 over Ethernet.

[ebdons]

Hi I have had this  "Pro Signal" powered hub for a few years now and has been totally reliable and I also have a usb2 hub connected to it and can power that as well with using my sx filter wheel and 616cxl camera and my Ethernet system for my meteor cam, had startech in the past and mostly they packed up after a year or so. I used to get my hubs from cpc farnell but they seem only to stock the startech which I won't go near again. this is the one I got. albeit it seems hard to get now unless there is another version of it?  https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pro-Signal-Psg90987-ethernet-Adapter/dp/B013E47MK4

[Astrokev]

On 25/07/2020 at 19:26, ebdons said:

Hi I have had this  "Pro Signal" powered hub for a few years now and has been totally reliable and I also have a usb2 hub connected to it and can power that as well with using my sx filter wheel and 616cxl camera and my Ethernet system for my meteor cam, had startech in the past and mostly they packed up after a year or so. I used to get my hubs from cpc farnell but they seem only to stock the startech which I won't go near again. this is the one I got. albeit it seems hard to get now unless there is another version of it?  https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pro-Signal-Psg90987-ethernet-Adapter/dp/B013E47MK4

Thanks, that's interesting. I thought StarTech were supposed to be a reliable brand.  Time will tell I guess!

[Sp@ce_d]

After trying a few hubs in the obsy I went over to Startech a few years ago. I've got a few.. 4, 7 & 10 port & they've been great.. very stable. I also use various Lindy active extensions. If you're not aware already, as its not really documented, if you are providing external power to the hub (and you really should) there's a jumper in the hub that allows you to select whether the power for the USB ports is passed through from the computer USB port or not. By default it is, however I disable this as I power the hubs with the obsy regulated & conditioned 13.8v supply. I've found this much more stable than relying on the dubious quality of the various computer ports I've used over the years. My obsy setup also allows me to remotely cycle individual hub's power. Having the USB pass through disabled this has the benefit of simulating unplugging & re plugging a cable should a connected device lockup or disappear, my EFW2 has had a habit of doing this & it's saved me a few journeys out to the obsy just to unplug and reset a cable!