Bresser Binoculars

[wookie1965]

Bought a pair of Bresser 10 x 50 long eye relief binoculars, when they came they did not focus sharply.

Went online said check horizontal with a roof of a house and gave instructions as to what to do if they did not match. 

They did not while the right lens had the roof top horizontal in the FOV the left was down following the online instructions found collimation screws adjusted and both where level.

Took them out last night trying to glimpse Comet Neowise with breaks in the cloud looked at a star I now have two images one on top of the other I have tried online instructions but it is getting me nowhere is this just a case of bin them and move on.

All input welcome

Paul 

[Stu]

You do have some bad luck Paul! I assume these were bought secondhand and can’t be returned? 

[DaveL59]

I assume these are porro, were they from Lidl? 

Tweaking the alignment at home is a tedious process and needs a lot of patience and very small adjustments to the prisms unless you've got the right gear that the pro's have. Did you tweak both sides or just on one side of the binocular?

Holding the bino a couple feet away how to the exit pupils look in the eyepieces, central or offset?

Daytime you can adjust and get them close but testing against the stars will give you a more definitive answer as you've found. I've done this on several binos now and on clear nights I've been in an out several times making small tweaks until I have them right. I find it easier to go in and adjust under lights as it's easier to see the screw rather than fumble in the dark and drop the jewellers screwdriver and try to find it, or worse the tiny adjuster grub screw. Best to work on one side only at a time (I start with the most offset exit pupil), else it can be like having 2 cats on leads and trying to take them for a walk  but be aware that if a large amount of adjustment is being made you may have started on the wrong side and the exit pupil may be well off centre.

I have also used a light indoors to help get them closer than using a roofline but getting sufficient distance makes that harder. I use the reflection of the light off the glass front door panel but even so that's only around 10 meters but I've found it works for me, guess because I've done it several times. Another option, if you can tripod mount them, use an object with a distinct Y or cross pattern, a distant bare branch or TV aerial as that'll give a much more defined view of the alignment than a roof.

Also when you are checking, don't forget that your eye will quickly accommodate any error in daylight as there's plenty of background for the brain to merge. To get around this use a dark card over one objective and while looking through the bino, remove it and note the first instant view. Repeat a few times to confirm and adjust then redo. Best to do this when your eyes aren't too tired as well.

Once done you may well find that someone else will find the same issue you were seeing, since you won't have collimated the 2 sides, merely adjusted the alignment to suit your specific IPD.

hope that helps.

Edited July 19, 2020 by DaveL59

[wookie1965]

1 hour ago, Stu said:

You do have some bad luck Paul! I assume these were bought secondhand and can’t be returned? 

Yes Stu and yes I must be cursed or something.

[Dark Vader]

It should still be possible to get them into conditional alignment with a bit more "tweaking". I had a pair of Strathspey marine 10x50s (2nd hand from the Bay) that I swear the delivery company must have played football with en route! The rooftop test showed 2 very different images. I got them pretty close using the rooftop in daylight, then a star test. Arcturus x 2.... 🙄 

I got them even closer using the defocused right eyepiece method but still not quite there. All the adjustments were to the right side prism so far as that was the side that looked out on the roof test, so I did a small adjustment to the left and it was spot on. 

As stated earlier, it is a tedious process - 1/8 of a turn on the screw, check and repeat if necessary - took me just under an hour.

I'll still be sending mine off to be collimated properly but until then at least they are useable, if only for my IPD.

Good luck

Andy 

 

 

 

[wookie1965]

50 minutes ago, DaveL59 said:

I assume these are porro, were they from Lidl? 

Tweaking the alignment at home is a tedious process and needs a lot of patience and very small adjustments to the prisms unless you've got the right gear that the pro's have. Did you tweak both sides or just on one side of the binocular?

Holding the bino a couple feet away how to the exit pupils loon in the eyepieces, central or offset?

Daytime you can adjust and get them close but testing against the stars will give you a more definitive answer as you've found. I've done this on several binos now and on clear nights I've been in an out several times making small tweaks until I have them right. I find it easier to go in and adjust under lights as it's easier to see the screw rather than fumble in the dark and drop the jewellers screwdriver and try to find it, or worse the tiny adjuster grub screw. Best to work on one side only at a time (I start with the most offset exit pupil), else it can be like having 2 cats on leads and trying to take them for a walk  but be aware that if a large amount of adjustment is being made you may have started on the wrong side and the exit pupil may be well off centre.

I have also used a light indoors to help get them closer than using a roofline but getting sufficient distance makes that harder. I use the reflection of the light off the glass front door panel but even so that's only around 10 meters but I've found it works for me, guess because I've done it several times. Another option, if you can tripod mount them, use an object with a distinct Y or cross pattern, a distant bare branch or TV aerial as that'll give a much more defined view of the alignment than a roof.

Also when you are checking, don't forget that your eye will quickly accommodate any error in daylight as there's plenty of background for the brain to merge. To get around this use a dark card over one objective and while looking through the bino, remove it and note the first instant view. Repeat a few times to confirm and adjust then redo. Best to do this when your eyes aren't too tired as well.

Once done you may well find that someone else will find the same issue you were seeing, since you won't have collimated the 2 sides, merely adjusted the alignment to suit your specific IPD.

hope that helps.

I adjusted both sides the left needed going up so much I thought it would be better to bring the right down a bit.  Exit pupils in both are off the left a lot smaller but up and to the right  the right lens is way off up to the right quite away. 

[DaveL59]

Are they new? In which case I'd return them.

If not then I'd adjust the right side if it'll bring the images into alignment and not make the exit pupil go further out to the edge. Could be that a prism is out of place in its seat if they've had a bump and while you might be able to twiddle the screws and get them usable it'll maybe shift again later and need this all doing over, or worse, chip and become useless.

[wookie1965]

6 minutes ago, DaveL59 said:

Are they new? In which case I'd return them.

If not then I'd adjust the right side if it'll bring the images into alignment and not make the exit pupil go further out to the edge. Could be that a prism is out of place in its seat if they've had a bump and while you might be able to twiddle the screws and get them usable it'll maybe shift again later and need this all doing over, or worse, chip and become useless.

Can you you tell me which screws adjust what and do I adjust just one screw on the right or both thanks. They are second hand bought sold as seen from the Bay the description said optics perfect just needed a clean as where a bit dusty, when they came they where dusty I blew all the dust of and cleaned them they looked great until I tried them.

 

[DaveL59]

you mentioned before some instructions, hopefully they give the information?

One of the makers I recall did give instructions on how to align their astro binoculars and that is pretty generic, can't recall which it was now tho.

The problem is that the prisms, while set at right angles with respect to each other are not so with regard to the image you see. So each screw will alter the image on the diagonal. The lower prism/screw will shift the image top-right to bottom left and the top prism/screw will shift the image top-left to bottom right, if that makes sense. It's a bit like using an EQ mount or perhaps a better example, collimating a reflector, adjust only one screw and see the effect and if worse back it off to previous and try the other etc. 

Edited July 19, 2020 by DaveL59

[johninderby]

This guide may help.

https://www.wikihow.com/Fix-Double-Vision-in-Binoculars

[Stu]

8 minutes ago, wookie1965 said:

Can you you tell me which screws adjust what and do I adjust just one screw on the right or both thanks. They are second hand bought sold as seen from the Bay the description said optics perfect just needed a clean as where a bit dusty, when they came they where dusty I blew all the dust of and cleaned them they looked great until I tried them.

 

Then return them as they were not accurately described. Raise a PayPal claim and get your money back. I did that with a pair of £20 binoculars which were described as optically perfect but had fungus on the prisms. PayPal refunded my money including postage. Don’t put up with it Paul, not worth the hassle.

[wookie1965]

11 minutes ago, Stu said:

Then return them as they were not accurately described. Raise a PayPal claim and get your money back. I did that with a pair of £20 binoculars which were described as optically perfect but had fungus on the prisms. PayPal refunded my money including postage. Don’t put up with it Paul, not worth the hassle.

Advertisement says no returns so I dont think I can do anything and since I have tried to adjust them he can say its my fault.

[DaveL59]

sounds like the easiest solution Stu, just say they arrived out of alignment.

Unfortunately it's very easy to make things far worse trying to adjust them, takes a LOT of patience and good research beforehand and perhaps a degree of luck. Having tilt screws does make things easier though, first ones I did this with you had to shim the prisms and that took me around 5 hours popping a prism out, adjusting the shim, replace and try again... Rock solid now though and I learned a lot doing that work. Eccentric rings can be fun but quite doable again with patience and the right tools.

[DaveL59]

4 minutes ago, wookie1965 said:

Advertisement says no returns so I dont think I can do anything and since I have tried to adjust them he can say its my fault.

ack, sounds like seller knew there was a problem and just wanted shot of them  Ebay/paypal may still act in your favour tho if the ad says they are correctly aligned, but if there's signs you've tried to adjust that won't help of course. Hope they didn't cost too much if you end up stuck with them. An optical repair shop may be able to collimate them for you tho, give someone like east coast binoculars a shout and see what it'd cost.

Edited July 19, 2020 by DaveL59

[wookie1965]

1 minute ago, DaveL59 said:

ack, sounds like seller knew there was a problem and just wanted shot of them  Ebay/paypal may still act in your favour tho if the ad says they are correctly aligned, but if there's signs you've tried to adjust that won't help of course.

When I went to adjust them there was some glue showing and when I pulled back the rubber has split so I have no chance.

 

[wookie1965]

[Peter Drew]

A simple method that often works and worth trying is to unscrew the objective barrels slightly.  Usually, this causes the image to move and if you are lucky, enough to correct the problem.  Removing both barrels and swapping them sometimes gets things closer.  I have the same model of Bresser binocular and it is really quite good despite its cheapness.    🙂

[wookie1965]

Well I have put them on a tripod looked at a post about 50 metres away used the diopter on the right to defocus that held my head back a couple of inches could clearly see two images with slight adjustment to the collimation screws I now have them on top of each other.

Just need a clearish night now to do a star test but once I had set the diopter back I have the clearest image I have had out of them so crossed fingers it has worked.

@Peter Drew thank you I swapped the barrels over before tweaking and it made it a lot easier as the images where not that far apart.

[DaveL59]

hi Paul

ideally you want a target a lot further than 50m to do this, so you may still be a touch out against the stars, but you could always tweak once you've had a chance to try them. Or nighttime using a distant street light if its all clouded over  

[wookie1965]

I will have to do that as I have no access to anything further away hemmed in by house's.

Thank you for all your help just try them now if I cannot get them any closer I think it will be the bin for them and have look for some more.

Paul

 

 

 

[Rusted]

I bought a brand new pair of 10x50 Zeiss Jenoptem decades ago.
They were out of alignment from the very first trial at home.
The shop in Bangor N.Wales was not interested.
Told me I must have dropped them. I hadn't.
They were treated with kid gloves but they gave me nausea.
So I set them up on a fence post and adjusted the objective rings to realign the images.
They have remained perfectly aligned for the ensuing three decades.

I have a dozen pairs of charity shop bought binos. £5-15.
Almost all of them are misaligned porro prism. They still make good finders.
Bung them in a bit of PVC plumbing pipe for an inverted image.

[wookie1965]

Took them out last night star tested on Altair it was slightly elongated, tweaked with very small adjustments and got them to a point I cannot discern any notable collimation issues. Stars where sharp and easily picked up Jupiter's moon's as dots so I am quite happy with them now.

[wookie1965]

I have decided to send them off to be checked £15  if they do need a bit of tweaking it's £25  + Postage.

I have read that my eyes and brain can compensate for a bit of miscollimation and that could lead to headache's so I think this is best.

Thank you everyone who helped me I really appreciate it.

Paul

Edited July 21, 2020 by wookie1965

[wookie1965]

Well thank you to Richard Biggs who was on the Repair Shop fixing a old newtonian telescope, he has adjusted the prism's said it was straight forward £27 posted back to me to say I'm delighted is a understatement.