Help with Synscan Alt Az Goto wedge

[AstroSun87]

Hi there everyone, I’m new and this is my first post, I apologise if I do something wrong I am very unfamiliar with it all.

i recently decided to stop admiring DSO’s on the tv alone and to dig up my telescope and mount which I never got much use out of (my fault). 

i’m on a very tight budget and had seen people had made their own wedge, I’m about to start building it but I heard that if I do this it would no longer track effectively due to an update in the firmware? I’m using a WiFi adapter and the Synscan app. My aim is to be able to use my Alt az goto with a dslr for DSO photography. I’d be very disheartened if making a wedge won’t work  any advice would be greatly appreciated. My Skywatcher Alt Az Is around 7 years old but in perfect working order, I have a d70 f700 skywatcher telescope attached to it currently.

 

I've attached some images of my system.

 

thanking you in advance 

Sunny

[AstroSun87]

Hi again, just to clarify what I meant, I was told that if I mounted my SynScan Alt AZ GoTo onto a wedge that it’s be able to track the night sky without experiencing the issue with field rotation. However when I look at the SynScan app I see three options 

1.) lunar tracking

2.) Sidereal tracking

3.) Point and Track 

However, Point and track is disabled and I just wanted to confirm that if I selected Sidereal that I’d be able to get the mount tracking correctly with my DSLR attached. 
 

thank you again

[johninderby]

EQ mode is available for the AZ-GTi mount. Not sure about the older mounts.

 

Edited July 12, 2020 by johninderby

[michael8554]

It appears that in their wisdom Skywatcher started to detect which kind of mount the controller is attached to, which deletes the EQ option on Alt/Az mounts !

Apparently there's a trick to get over this:

"My solution is to operate the mount setting the longitude coordinates to 90deg. This solution tells the mount that the az fork is pointed to north (or south) pole. The disadvantage is that sometimes I receive a "below horizon" alarm from synscan."

Worth a try.

Michael

[Cosmic Geoff]

The main issue here is the adequacy of the mount.  With a GoTo mount, having an equatorial is only useful for long imaging exposures (no field rotation).  You can in fact do a lot of imaging of the EEVA variety with short exposures on an alt-az GoTo mount.  There is no point trying for a long exposures if the mount wobbles or fails to track accurately.

I have a very similar mount from Celestron and I judged that the tripod was not stable enough even for visual use, prompting me to buy a used manual EQ-5 and also to make up a wooden tripod that would take the SLT mount head.  So is your mount going to be adequate for long exposure imaging if placed on a wedge? I think not.

[AstroSun87]

9 hours ago, michael8554 said:

It appears that in their wisdom Skywatcher started to detect which kind of mount the controller is attached to, which deletes the EQ option on Alt/Az mounts !

Apparently there's a trick to get over this:

"My solution is to operate the mount setting the longitude coordinates to 90deg. This solution tells the mount that the az fork is pointed to north (or south) pole. The disadvantage is that sometimes I receive a "below horizon" alarm from synscan."

Worth a try.

Michael

Hi Michael thank you for your reply! 
 

I am still using the firmware from 7+ Years ago however so wondered if I could use my controller instead of the app? I was thinking I could use the App to get the alignment done and then switch over to the controller? 
 

I’m aware that making a wedge for the mount isn’t the most advisable thing but I’ve been racking my brain about it for weeks now and I’d really like to find a way to get this to work.

I appreciate that this isn’t designed for EQ tracking and may yield less than desirable results (as mentioned below with respects to the instability of the tripod itself) but I’d like to try at least and see what happens as I’ve already gone and ordered the dovetail bars and L bracket for the ball head & dslr..

Im hoping the fact I have ancient firmware would possibly mean I can still use it as an EQ? 
 

Do you use a wedge as well as setting it to 90deg? 

 

 

[AstroSun87]

9 hours ago, Cosmic Geoff said:

The main issue here is the adequacy of the mount.  With a GoTo mount, having an equatorial is only useful for long imaging exposures (no field rotation).  You can in fact do a lot of imaging of the EEVA variety with short exposures on an alt-az GoTo mount.  There is no point trying for a long exposures if the mount wobbles or fails to track accurately.

I have a very similar mount from Celestron and I judged that the tripod was not stable enough even for visual use, prompting me to buy a used manual EQ-5 and also to make up a wooden tripod that would take the SLT mount head.  So is your mount going to be adequate for long exposure imaging if placed on a wedge? I think not.

Hi Geoff, many thanks for responding to my post. I understand your reservations and fear you are probably right, however I’m fairly comfortable in terms of design and fabrication and have already thought of a few design modifications I could make that would allow for the mount to be secured properly and not move or slide about. I’ve seen the bottom of the mount has three small pegs that prevented it from moving on it’s axis around the 1 bolt that holds it. I plan to cut some snippets of sheet steel and place these where the pegs are with a slot. I’m hoping this will allow the mount to be seated and held securely. I’m aware this doesn’t make up for the crappy tripod legs, I watched a video online that showed how to strengthen the mount and eliminate any free play. 

My main concern is the issue with tracking and wether I can overcome the issue with the software. I am hoping the fact I have never updated my Synscan handset can go in my favour..

i have a small budget so I’m trying to make the best of what I have and learn as much as I can prior to making any big spends.

 

[happy-kat]

You can use you mount just as it is, learning to work within the mounts capabilities. No wedge was used.

This image was taken by member Stevenickolls click the link.

The post is this one and that thread is about imaging with a mount like yours.

https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/228101-the-no-eq-dso-challenge/?do=findComment&comment=3776550

This is one of mine using a camera lens on an altaz tracking mount

Edited July 12, 2020 by happy-kat

[michael8554]

1 hour ago, AstroSun87 said:

Im hoping the fact I have ancient firmware would possibly mean I can still use it as an EQ? 
 

Do you use a wedge as well as setting it to 90deg?

Look through your menus for the EQ option.

If not, for your location enter Lat = 90, I think Long = 90 doesn't make sense, must have been a mistake in the original post.

Yes it sounds like you have to have the wedge, otherwise there'd be no point.

Michael

[AstroSun87]

Thanks for all the advice and for providing me the link to the thread related to this. The images are beautiful and I’m smiling ear to ear now. I have an Astro modified canon 450d, I managed to purchase it with only 409 for the shutter count for £160..not sure what types of results I’ll get but I’ll start practicing as soon as my L bracket arrives. Does anyone have any idea of what types of images one could expect from a lower end telescope such as mine? 
 

thank you for being kind enough to answer my questions, I apologise if I wasn’t clear, I’m just very excited ..

[happy-kat]

Do you have any lenses with your camera?

With your telescope I would not extend the tripod legs fully but keep them short, and to begin with start on the 40° East or West direction and practice capturing and what works for you.

[AstroSun87]

I have purchased the following lenses

Canon 50mm f.18 (nifty fifty)

Tamron 10-24mm f3.5-4.5 (I was advised by Greg from Cornwall astronomy)

Soligor 400mm f6.3 (Again Greg said try it out)

Rokinon 135mm f.2.0 (major investment for me)

I already had a Canon kit lenses

Canon 70-300mm & the 18-55mm 

So 40deg east or west with the legs not fully extended..do I apply the rule of 500?

 

thanks

 

 

 

 

[AstroSun87]

On 13/07/2020 at 09:20, happy-kat said:

Do you have any lenses with your camera?

With your telescope I would not extend the tripod legs fully but keep them short, and to begin with start on the 40° East or West direction and practice capturing and what works for you.

I have purchased the following lenses

Canon 50mm f.18 (nifty fifty)

Tamron 10-24mm f3.5-4.5 (I was advised by Greg from Cornwall astronomy)

Soligor 400mm f6.3 (Again Greg said try it out)

Rokinon 135mm f.2.0 (major investment for me)

I already had a Canon kit lenses

Canon 70-300mm & the 18-55mm 

So 40deg east or west with the legs not fully extended..do I apply the rule of 500?

[happy-kat]

The rule of 400/500/600 etc. is for static mounts.

I would start with the nifty fifty and try 30 seconds keeping the elevation below 60 degrees.  Could try the lens at f1.8 but you will likely find stopping it down to say f5 better on over all star shapes.

Focus on a star that intersects a third in on any corner, centre star focus can make the corner/edge stars worse shape then they need be.

the Rokinon is a superb lens I gather and there is a thread dedicated to it (under samyoung branding) on here.

Have fun, go find that excellent comet.

.

[AstroSun87]

On 14/07/2020 at 21:49, happy-kat said:

The rule of 400/500/600 etc. is for static mounts.

I would start with the nifty fifty and try 30 seconds keeping the elevation below 60 degrees.  Could try the lens at f1.8 but you will likely find stopping it down to say f5 better on over all star shapes.

Focus on a star that intersects a third in on any corner, centre star focus can make the corner/edge stars worse shape then they need be.

the Rokinon is a superb lens I gather and there is a thread dedicated to it (under samyoung branding) on here.

Have fun, go find that excellent comet.

.

I found the comet 2 days ago  

 

I couldn’t image very clearly but managed to take 7 or 8 images of it ! I failed Miserably to polar align my mount, I was pretty disheartened but I’m hoping to practice polar aligning my mount tonight if the sky is clear enough..I have a basic polar scope that comes with the sky watcher products, any advice would be greatly appreciated, I felt very confused

[happy-kat]

Are you using your synscan altaz mount shown on earlier photos, are you trying to fake the mount into trying to get it to eq track?