Telescope

[Bego]

Hello everyone please l need a bit of advice and help to choose my first telescope. 

Im thinking to buying the celestron Astro Fl 5 Schmidt Cassegrain. But looking of the people reviews, they said that they've had lots of problems with WiFi connection.

My another telescope choice is the Celestron NexStar 4SE Computerised Telescope. Wich one are you guys recommend me? 

Thank you so much. 😇 

[jonathan]

It is certainly true that more complexity adds more things that could go wrong!  I like to stick to the old addage 'Keep It Simple, Stupid', or 'KISS'.  If you can achieve something using 5 items then why use 10?  Telescope manufacturers do not always use the best electronics, it sounds like the wifi module may be one of those cheap last minute add-ons that is there to sell the telescope more than anything else.

I know from experience that that Celestron NexStar 4SE is a solid scope, although I am not a fan of the single-arm mount and GOTO system (it is added complexity, and you will be very limited when adding accessories to the 4SE scope or using a different scope with the mount), it might help you as a beginner to get into the hobby.  Keep in mind that with GOTO you are spending half or more of your budget on the electronics and not the telescope, and they require a learning curve to use correctly (and they can go wrong!)

You might like to take a look at a couple of alternatives:

https://www.celestron.com/products/advanced-vx-6-schmidt-cassegrain-telescope

and

https://www.celestron.com/products/omni-xlt-150-telescope

The Omni XLT 150 has no GOTO system, it comes as a fully manual system (you have to align it to the target yourself, then use the slow motion control knobs to keep the object in view), however you can add a motor to it for automatic tracking.  Personally I like the simplicity and reliability of this kind of system, there is very little that can go wrong, so there is more time spent finding and viewing objects rather than pressing buttons.

The 150 Newtonian Reflector is a solid performer, simple and easy to manage.  It should not suffer from dew as much as the Schmidt Cassegrain design (the front glass plate collects dew quite easily when the temperature drops), and it is a fast scope (low f number) meaning that it should provide sharper views at high magnification when used with high quality eyepieces; the Schmidt Cassegrain design is a slower scope (high f number) which means that high quality high magnification eyepieces do not work as well.  There is more to it than that, but this is a simplified explanation of the practical difference in scope design.

This telescope bundle also comes with the CG-4 mount and tripod, which are excellent in my opinion, very steady and reliable.  The thick steel tubular tripod legs are brilliant, and the CG-4 mount will comfortably take a wide range of telescopes up to about 6" diameter.  This is a telescope and mount that you would probably want to keep, that is why I would recommend it to you.  It will require a learning curve to use correctly as it is fully manual, but it's like learning to ride a bike - once you learn it is easy and you won't forget.

 

Edited July 5, 2020 by jonathan

[Waddensky]

What would you like to observe? Planets, deep-sky objects, double stars? Does it need to be portable? Do you wish to find objects manually or with GOTO? How dark is your observing location? Visual use or photography? In short: we need a bit more context :P.

I second Jonathan's KISS adage. I think it's often better to invest in aperture/mounting/eyepieces than electronics, but that's just my opinion.

[DeathWarpedUp]

The first question really is do you want goto.

The 2nd I what do you want to see (I'm guessing the answer is.. Everything)

The 3rd is, do you think you want to (have the budget for) ap, or is it more just a nip out for an hour on a clear night kind of hobby.

The more realistic answers you can provide with these, the quicker/easier/less expensivr to get to your objective

 

[Bego]

Thank you so much! My budget is £450 maximum 500.

I would like to "see, "

Planets, deep-sky objects.  Im still a little confused, about wich one to go for manually or GOTO. Really appreciate your kindness and your help. 

Thanks and sorry for my English. 

 

[dweller25]

I would suggest you spend the money on the optics rather than GOTO as you will get better views.

This is a very good scope that will show a lot of detail on the planets and give good deep sky views too.......

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-250px-dobsonian.html

There is also a smaller 8” version available too.

Both can be attached to GOTO mounts at a later date if you want to.

 

[johninderby]

Yes you can’t beat a dob for the most you can see for the money.

The Bresser 8” dob while seemingly more expensive than the Skywatcher 8” comes with a lot of extras worth more than the price difference such as a great focuser, proper sized alt bearings and uses tube rings to mount it which means it is easy to mount it on a goto mount later on by just adding a dovetail bar.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/bresser-telescopes/bresser-messier-8-dobsonian-telescope.html

Edited July 6, 2020 by johninderby

[AstroMuni]

43 minutes ago, Bego said:

Thank you so much! My budget is £450 maximum 500.

I would like to "see, "

Planets, deep-sky objects.  Im still a little confused, about wich one to go for manually or GOTO. Really appreciate your kindness and your help. 

Thanks and sorry for my English. 

 

Hi Bego,

A GO-TO gives you the luxury of telling the hand controller or PC to point to an object and it will do it. In the manual mode ofcourse you have to find the object in the sky and then point to it. 2nd advantage is it can track the object so you dont have to keep making manual adjustments to your scope.

Disadvantages for Go-To are mainly price and you need a source of power to connect to it.

If you decide to buy a manual mount, not all manual mount models allow you to add on motors at a later stage to help do the tracking. So bear that in mind.

When you buy a scope get the one with the largest aperature (as that increases its light gathering power) and the sturdiest mount. Remember you maybe able to buy these separately! Dont splash out all your £450 on the scope+mount. Set aside money to buy good eyepieces.

Look at the second hand market for deals on both scope and eyepieces.

Edited July 6, 2020 by AstroMuni

[Louis D]

8 minutes ago, AstroMuni said:

Disadvantages for Go-To are mainly price and you need a source of power to connect to it.

Add trying to get a successful alignment.  There are lots of requests on SGL for help getting alignment to successfully complete.  This assumes you can see enough bright stars to do an alignment.  Due to buildings and trees, I often have difficulty finding enough alignment stars for DSC alignment.

Another issue is the often poor reliability of the handsets.  They were designed to a low price point which means that durability wasn't high on the priority list during design.  Again, I've read plenty of threads about handset issues.

[Bego]

Louis can you please recommend me a Goto telescope, on my budget. 450 to 500

Thank you for helping me out. X

[Louis D]

1 hour ago, Bego said:

Louis can you please recommend me a Goto telescope, on my budget. 450 to 500

Thank you for helping me out. X

I strictly use manual scopes.  I have Sky Commander DSCs (Digital Setting Circles) on a couple of them for push-to operation.  As such, I'm in no position to recommend any GOTO mounts.

@Dr Strange thinks highly of the Skywatcher AZ-GTi mount.  However, it appears to be out of stock everywhere.  I would contact him for further GOTO advice if you are absolutely set on a GOTO mount.

Personally, I would probably go the Dobsonian route as others have suggested above and attach a cell phone via an accessory arm as @Dannomiss did in this thread to allow for rough, push-to operation while you learn the night sky using a planisphere app.

[Waddensky]

3 hours ago, Bego said:

Thank you so much! My budget is £450 maximum 500.

I would like to "see, "

Planets, deep-sky objects.  Im still a little confused, about wich one to go for manually or GOTO. Really appreciate your kindness and your help. 

Thanks and sorry for my English. 

 

I'm gonna repeat what others have said, but for the budget you can buy a nice dobsonian type telescope. These are good allround scopes that'll give you enough to observe for a lifetime. A 8" or 10" is great size. Keep in mind though that they are quite big and heavy: if you can, visit a star party or a telescope store to see one in real life.

I am also using only manually operated telescopes. Finding objects is not that complicated: if you get the hang of it, you'll point your scope to the right target in seconds. GOTO systems are expensive, require a power source and take time and effort to setup properly. Still, some find them very convenient. It's a matter of personal taste, I guess.

[DeathWarpedUp]

On your budget, a 2nd hand, dob (8"-10")  a couple of 2nd hand ep's 32mm being one and maybe a 20 and a 12. With phone apps these days, star hopping isnt as daunting as it used to be.

[Nyctimene]

1 minute ago, DeathWarpedUp said:

With phone apps these days, star hopping isnt as daunting as it used to be.

My thoughts just this moment - using a Red Dot Finder, a RACI finderscope and  a wide field eyepiece of 1° up to 2° true  field of view (my 8" f/4 with a 24mmf/82° shows even 2.5°) is much more intuitive and hassle-free (and for faint DSO's, found with a GoTo, you'll need a detailed map anyway).

Stephan

[Cosmic Geoff]

3 minutes ago, Nyctimene said:

(and for faint DSO's, found with a GoTo, you'll need a detailed map anyway).

You don't, as most GoTo systems have a catalog of deep-sky objects programmed into the handset.

Each to their own; some folks enjoy the simplicity of a manual mount and star-hopping, while others regard star-hopping as a total waste of time and would not be without their GoTo.   Depends on whether you will enjoy looking for objects or looking at them.  A lot of people do use GoTo, and the more popular of the heavier mounts are only available in GoTo form.

[DeathWarpedUp]

4 minutes ago, Nyctimene said:

My thoughts just this moment - using a Red Dot Finder, a RACI finderscope and  a wide field eyepiece of 1° up to 2° true  field of view (my 8" f/4 with a 24mmf/82° shows even 2.5°) is much more intuitive and hassle-free (and for faint DSO's, found with a GoTo, you'll need a detailed map anyway).

Stephan

 

To be fair I have a cpc 800. When backyard viewing I can get the entire kit out of my garage set up and ready for alingment within literally 3 or 4 minutes, and once you know which stars to align with (you normally pick the usual suspects: vega, arctucus) The alignment only takes a few minutes at most. 

The problem with goto, is the price. To get goto on a decent aperture is where it gets the £££ starts getting silly and beyond a 9.25 starts getting ridiculously heavy as well.

[DeathWarpedUp]

6 minutes ago, Cosmic Geoff said:

Each to their own; some folks enjoy the simplicity of a manual mount and star-hopping, while others regard star-hopping as a total waste of time and would not be without their GoTo.   Depends on whether you will enjoy looking for objects or looking at them.  A lot of people do use GoTo, and the more popular of the heavier mounts are only available in GoTo form.

Thats the point, if you are an allnighter camped out with your flask thats all well and good, however the goto allows for those quick 1 1/2 hour sessions that many people would normally reserve for binos or a heritage 130.

Some people enjoy the hunt, some the convienence.

 

 

On the original posters budget, he is better with a phone app or 2, a 8 0r 10" dob and a 32mm ep to get him where he needs to go then a 20or24 and 12 ep and a cheap  barlow. to keep in his price range Id be on a famous auctions ite buying up the svbony kind of stuff. Of looking for better quality 2nd hand.

 

Edited July 6, 2020 by DeathWarpedUp

[johninderby]

GOTO is a bit like Marmite. You either love it or hate it. 😁

Opinion is pretty evenly split between those that find that GOTO really helps them and those that get more enjoyment from finding things manually. Neither is “right” but just different ways of enjoying the hobby.

Then of course there are those that do both. 🙄

Edited July 6, 2020 by johninderby

[Dr Strange]

7 hours ago, Louis D said:

I strictly use manual scopes.  I have Sky Commander DSCs (Digital Setting Circles) on a couple of them for push-to operation.  As such, I'm in no position to recommend any GOTO mounts.

@Dr Strange thinks highly of the Skywatcher AZ-GTi mount.  However, it appears to be out of stock everywhere.  I would contact him for further GOTO advice if you are absolutely set on a GOTO mount.

Personally, I would probably go the Dobsonian route as others have suggested above and attach a cell phone via an accessory arm as @Dannomiss did in this thread to allow for rough, push-to operation while you learn the night sky using a planisphere app.

I love my AZ-GTi. But as noted it looks like it is out of stock everywhere. Likely due to its popularity and the production interruptions in China. I would expect things to pick back up in the next 6 weeks or so. However a Dobsonian with encoders and a DSC (digital setting circle) is another great option. For encoders and a DSC I cannot recommend the Astro Devices Nexus DSC or Nexus II (if you want to use your smart phone as the computer) and their encoder kits. Serge, the owner, provides top flight customer service!

For example I had very straight forward issues installing my encoders on my DM6 (I was a rugby player for my Uni team and then played club so I am not very bright but am very good at brute force and ignorance). Instead of just replying by email Serge called me from Australia and walked me through how to fix what I broke! He has also called me about some questions I had on my Nexus DSC. He has kits for most popular Dob's including the Skywatcher and Explore Scientific lines. 

Speaking of which, while more expensive, I also recommend the Explore Scientific Dobsonians. Much more compact, easy to store, and easy to transport than their solid tube cousins! And affordable all things considered. Plus a 254mm Dobsonian with a DSC cannot be beat in terms of looking at things!

[AstroMuni]

15 hours ago, Louis D said:

Add trying to get a successful alignment. 

Getting multi star alignment is not critical for visual observation. I have the same issue with limited visibility but I can get quite decent go-to functionality and tracking.

16 hours ago, Louis D said:

Another issue is the often poor reliability of the handsets. 

Most of the mounts can be controlled from a PC, so there is less reliance on handsets. And I must admit its a lot easier to manage my mount using software such as Stellarium or Cartes du Ciel 🙂

 

[DeathWarpedUp]

14 minutes ago, AstroMuni said:

Getting multi star alignment is not critical for visual observation. I have the same issue with limited visibility but I can get quite decent go-to functionality and tracking.

 

Totally agree. If im feeling lazy, getting close enough works well, as long as its in a wide ep, I can slew to it from there easy enough. Or else I can use my zoom to align in to 8mm, and get it precise. Theres actually also a precide goto function that you can do after the original alignment.

[sputniksteve]

8 hours ago, Dr Strange said:

I love my AZ-GTi. But as noted it looks like it is out of stock everywhere. Likely due to its popularity and the production interruptions in China. I would expect things to pick back up in the next 6 weeks or so. However a Dobsonian with encoders and a DSC (digital setting circle) is another great option. For encoders and a DSC I cannot recommend the Astro Devices Nexus DSC or Nexus II (if you want to use your smart phone as the computer) and their encoder kits. Serge, the owner, provides top flight customer service!

For example I had very straight forward issues installing my encoders on my DM6 (I was a rugby player for my Uni team and then played club so I am not very bright but am very good at brute force and ignorance). Instead of just replying by email Serge called me from Australia and walked me through how to fix what I broke! He has also called me about some questions I had on my Nexus DSC. He has kits for most popular Dob's including the Skywatcher and Explore Scientific lines. 

Speaking of which, while more expensive, I also recommend the Explore Scientific Dobsonians. Much more compact, easy to store, and easy to transport than their solid tube cousins! And affordable all things considered. Plus a 254mm Dobsonian with a DSC cannot be beat in terms of looking at things!

Hi @Dr Strange. What scope are you using on the AZ_GTi, and what do you love about it. I had settled on getting the Mak127, but I'm now beginning to waver again. Years ago I used to own a 12" Lightbridge until I foolishly sold it in 2014.  I loved it. But I did get a bit fed up with having to re-centre objects. Back then, I either didn't have a decent smartphone or never thought of using an app as a guide. Hmmm. 

[Dr Strange]

5 hours ago, sputniksteve said:

Hi @Dr Strange. What scope are you using on the AZ_GTi, and what do you love about it. I had settled on getting the Mak127, but I'm now beginning to waver again. Years ago I used to own a 12" Lightbridge until I foolishly sold it in 2014.  I loved it. But I did get a bit fed up with having to re-centre objects. Back then, I either didn't have a decent smartphone or never thought of using an app as a guide. Hmmm. 

I like/love: ease of setup, ease of use, how light weight and compact it is, how accurate it is for its price point (it is not an Astro Physics or Paramount but does quite well for its cost), that it opens up the option for me to carry it in the boot to use when I am stuck in a parking lot because my child is a strong athlete and plays for several club teams several nights a week and I can be observing instead of staring at videos while I sit in the car because at this age dad is extremely embarrassing so must be banned from the field, that I can use it for observing while my main mount is busy doing AP for me, and that I can put it along with a small scope in my carry on luggage and travel with it on an airplane. 

I used it with a Tele Vue NP101is. The NP is well over the weight limit but it handled it fine. Here is a video of it going to something. Sorry I don't remember what. However it was low in the sky... 

[Dr Strange]

Note that with the NP it is shaky when you touch the focuser but I expected that and was fine with it. I wanted the aperture and didn't want to buy a Takahashi FC-100. I now use it with my AP 92 Stowaway. Handles it beautifully. Others use it with a Takahashi FC-100DF or DC. Works quite well with both of those too. The NP was about 2 kg over the weight limit with all the accessories. I have also seen people use it with a Skywatcher Evostar 100 ED. That also works quite well. I have also seen people use it with the Explore Scientific 102mm APO. Again, works well.

Personally I would recommend the Explore Scientific carbon fiber 102mm APO or 80mm APO. Both are well figured APO's so CA is minimized even on things like Sirius or the moon. I am very sensitive to CA and it drives me to distraction so I have to use a well figured APO. I owned the ES 127 CF FCD1, the ES 102 Essentials FCD1, and tried the 80mm CF FCD1. They were great scopes and my most used ever was the 127 on an AVD. I could be up and observing in under 15 minutes. And that was at a leisurely pace. I have looked through the new FCD100 versions and the slightly cool whites I saw on stars in my FCD1 scopes is no longer there. ES has come a long way in terms of lenses. They are pushing up into the Tele Vue and Takahashi space. Same with Skywatcher and their Esprits. Though I wouldn't use an Esprit on this mount. Too heavy. The 80 or 102 FCD100 would be a dream come true. To put it in perspective I saw M57 the Ring nebula with slightly averted vision for the first time from my Bortle 8/9 city skies in my 102 FCD1. So it is a very well performing scope. I probably could have done it in the 80mm too but didn't keep it since it was really too close to my 102. The 102 and 127 didn't compete as much since they served different purposes somewhat. 

Below is an image of how I carried it with the NP. It was in one of the bags. The EP's and diagonal were in the other. The tripod was a MePhoto and it rested on top of the scope. Now I have it in a Pelican case. The 92 is in another. On an airplane I take both out, wrap my clothes around the mount head, ep's, diagonal, and scope, put that in my carryon, and I am good to go save our TSA seems to be baffled by what all of that is and I am always having to open the carryon to show them then explain. This tends to delay me because of the puzzlement and amazement as well as the questions that follow. 

 

Edited July 7, 2020 by Dr Strange

[Dr Strange]

Oh and since I use the D plate on all my scopes I bought the ADM Accessories saddle for it. That gives you the option for either a D plate or a V plate. Stock it is only Vixen plate.