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M16 Re-Processed a year later


Xiga

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With no imaging possible at the moment (the weather has been awful lately, nevermind the lack of Astro Dark), i thought it would be fun to re-visit this data set and have another go at it, as i couldn't achieve anything even approaching decent with it this time last year. 

Long story short, this is easily the worst data set i've ever had to work with, and i'm used to not having much even at the best of times. This is 80 mins in total, consisting of 12 x 300s of Ha, and 4 x 300s of Oiii, shot with an OSC camera, under terrible conditions (bright sky and intermittent clouds). The Oiii subs were especially bad, but at least it allowed me to get a bit of blue towards the centre. 

SW 80ED; HEQ5-Pro, Qhy163c

I've been playing around with Topaz DeNoise AI in PS lately, and have been impressed with what it can do in certain circumstances, so i thought this data set might make for a good torture test. 

Both versions below are crops, the first just to crop off some of the noisy sky background that didn't have any nebulosity, and the second a tighter 1:1 crop to show the pillars in the vertical position. 

I've also linked to the original version from last year as well 😳

CS!

1440265402_M16HSTV4.thumb.jpg.8dbfa1b65e1083294e7606362c2b18d2.jpg

1452032698_M16HSTV4Cropped.thumb.jpg.2b3c76f725cdbe7e2cb154106690f4f2.jpg

 

Edited by Xiga
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Great image Ciarán and I love the colours you've achieved.

I've been wondering about Topaz DeNoise for some time. I know it must be me doing something wrong but I find denoising in PI very variable. I currently use a version of Nik Dfine2 in PS (from when it was free to download) and find the end result much more controllable and much more pleasing on the eye.

To my eyes definitely an improvement on last year's version.

Thanks for sharing.

Adrian

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15 hours ago, Adreneline said:

Great image Ciarán and I love the colours you've achieved.

I've been wondering about Topaz DeNoise for some time. I know it must be me doing something wrong but I find denoising in PI very variable. I currently use a version of Nik Dfine2 in PS (from when it was free to download) and find the end result much more controllable and much more pleasing on the eye.

To my eyes definitely an improvement on last year's version.

Thanks for sharing.

Adrian

Thanks Adrian. 

I'm not sure how useful it will prove to be on Broadband data, but when it comes to NB (especially so with low amounts of it) it seems to work wonders. 

It has a fully functional free 30 day trial, so nothing to lose giving it a shot. 

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I'm with you on the weather and lack of Astro Dark sky - I'm down in Galway and going nuts at the moment!!

I thinks thats a fabulous image and honestly if thats the "worst data set" you've had to work with I should send you some of mine🤣

Can I ask what Ha and OIII filters you used on this. I'm planning on getting the a cooled OSC later this year (leaning towards an ASI 533mc), and would really like the idea of doing that type of image. I also have the Skywatcher 80ED

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Thats a very decent result for NB with a OSC given the short exposure time and the sky conditions.  I've had a very brief play around with Topaz, but I was just using the default lightest Raw setting and even that is too much I think.  Any pointers :D 

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Hat's off Ciarán. :icon_salut:

I think that's an incredible result given how low this is in the sky, the conditions you mention and that you've used a one shot colour camera.  Absolutely remarkable and I'd be delighted if I managed that.

Edited by x6gas
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9 hours ago, mackiedlm said:

I'm with you on the weather and lack of Astro Dark sky - I'm down in Galway and going nuts at the moment!!

I thinks thats a fabulous image and honestly if thats the "worst data set" you've had to work with I should send you some of mine🤣

Can I ask what Ha and OIII filters you used on this. I'm planning on getting the a cooled OSC later this year (leaning towards an ASI 533mc), and would really like the idea of doing that type of image. I also have the Skywatcher 80ED

Thanks mate. In a week's time we will have 2 hrs of Astronomical Twilight up here, which is useable, especially for NB. We just need some clear skies (what are those again?!). 

I use 2" mounted Baader filters. I never had any halos with my Oiii filter when i used it with my D5300, but i've started to notice them now i've made the jump to mono. I suspect the distance from the sensor is playing a part, but i need to do some testing to confirm that. 

Here is what the raw Ha and Oii stacks looked like, with nothing but a stretch. The Oiii one is so bad it belongs in the bin, which is exactly where i would have put it, where it not for the fact it may be years before i get another chance to shoot this target again.

Ha-lpc-St.thumb.jpg.e0b515b9c19f41ec4d5516190d5292ad.jpg

Oiii-lpc-St2.thumb.jpg.c0fc220597fb779d2b8038160e3a4bb9.jpg

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9 hours ago, tooth_dr said:

Thats a very decent result for NB with a OSC given the short exposure time and the sky conditions.  I've had a very brief play around with Topaz, but I was just using the default lightest Raw setting and even that is too much I think.  Any pointers :D 

Cheers Adam. 

I think you're getting your Topaz Denoise programs mixed up (not your fault, they need to come up with more original names!). It sounds like you are referring to their standard DeNoise program, whereas i used Topaz DeNoise AI, which uses a machine-learning algorithm to correct for the noise. 

I recommend giving it a go for NB. I used it on my recent Pelican Nebula image, which only had 100 mins of Ha as Luminance, and it cleaned up the noisy dark areas amazingly well. With the right settings, it doesn't seem to cause the same smeared look that every other NR routine gives. It also has a sharpen slider, which is quite good too. One quick piece of advice though, make sure to crop your edges off first before running it, as the artefacts interfere with the algorithm and it can cause strange effects in some places. 

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8 hours ago, x6gas said:

Hat's off Ciarán. :icon_salut:

I think that's an incredible result given how low this is in the sky, the conditions you mention and that you've used a one shot colour camera.  Absolutely remarkable and I'd be delighted if I managed that.

Thanks mate. Tbh i was just messing around, testing out the DeNoise AI program, and I was so surprised at what it was able to do with such rubbish data that i thought i'd share the result in case others might also want to give it a test run. 

7 hours ago, iwols said:

well ive just purchased the ha and oiii filter as well ,but not tried yet,ide be very happy with this:thumbsup:

Cheers! Looking forward to see how you get on with yours! 

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26 minutes ago, Xiga said:

Thanks mate. In a week's time we will have 2 hrs of Astronomical Twilight up here, which is useable, especially for NB. We just need some clear skies (what are those again?!). 

I use 2" mounted Baader filters. I never had any halos with my Oiii filter when i used it with my D5300, but i've started to notice them now i've made the jump to mono. I suspect the distance from the sensor is playing a part, but i need to do some testing to confirm that. 

Here is what the raw Ha and Oii stacks looked like, with nothing but a stretch. The Oiii one is so bad it belongs in the bin, which is exactly where i would have put it, where it not for the fact it may be years before i get another chance to shoot this target again.

Thanks Ciarán,

So you went DSLR to Cooled OSC to mono? I'm at the stage of my first move away from a modded DSLR and have been thrashing about on the choice between OSC and Mono (its down to ASI 533mc or ASI1600mm at this point (Though your QHY seem to give good results). Ive read loads of the threads here and on other forums about which is best (that was fun!) and had largely settled on OSC because of the limited number of good nights here and partly the cost and complications of mono. But Id really appreciate hearing your thoughts - you have the same scope, similar mount (mine is the NEQ6) and very similar skies) and you have gone through both.

Rgds

 

David

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6 hours ago, mackiedlm said:

Thanks Ciarán,

So you went DSLR to Cooled OSC to mono? I'm at the stage of my first move away from a modded DSLR and have been thrashing about on the choice between OSC and Mono (its down to ASI 533mc or ASI1600mm at this point (Though your QHY seem to give good results). Ive read loads of the threads here and on other forums about which is best (that was fun!) and had largely settled on OSC because of the limited number of good nights here and partly the cost and complications of mono. But Id really appreciate hearing your thoughts - you have the same scope, similar mount (mine is the NEQ6) and very similar skies) and you have gone through both.

Rgds

 

David

Hi David

I owned the the Qhy163c for just under a year, but due to life getting in the way I only produced 1 broadband image, plus this one, with it before i sold it on. Maybe it was my skies (i was shooting from our new house, which has higher LP, as opposed to the old family home which has better skies, i dunno) but i didn't find the 163c to be that much of a leap over the D5300. Part of that is down to just how good the D5300 is. It's modded and has very low noise compared to the Canons, so it pushes well above it's weight. I absolutely love it and i'll never sell it. I only picked up the 163c on a whim, as it was available at a good price, but i wasn't overly impressed with the noise profile. Every camera is different though, and a lot depends on your skies too, so don't be put off by my experience at all. Some imagers get incredible results with OSC cameras. Richard Sweeney (who i think is in Cork?) is one obvious example. 

HTH. 

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