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PhotoGav

StaaaaaarrrrrgggghhhhhhLink...

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I wonder which one of the Astrophotography  softwear giants are going to ,

do a plug in for the software , rightly called satellite trail eliminator.

Paul

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On 29/06/2020 at 20:47, Paul M said:

Nor a computer to connect or money for either and they'll be better off without their children being turned into dysfunctional social media adicts.

Slow internet is a 1st world problem and Musk's solution isn't really even about solving that problem. It's about corporate posturing and personal ego.

This answer saddens me... I was involved in World Science University project and I know for a fact that some of the brightest children in Africa have next to no internet access. There are children in this world that have no chance of getting a better job or escape their poor lives because they have no way of accessing resources. 
Also, slow internet is not 1st world caprice. It's a necessity when you have to work from home, upload a security camera stream in the cloud, or to make it closer to our hearts,  have an observatory that is not in your backyard that needs security cameras, remote access, data transfer, etc. 
You see, none of the above and countless other scenarios involve any social media or Netflix binge watching. 
 

On 29/06/2020 at 16:57, cuivenion said:

I have not seen one news report of a professional astronomer saying this isn't going to be a problem for them.

Nor will you ever see one. I'm just telling that this is going to be an annoyance that the science community will overcome. There will be some changes in the way we acquire data from the ground observatories, we will have to find solutions on the infrared (the only astronomy observation that will be affected in a real way), we will have to compromise a bit on the radio astronomy (not too much) but scientists are already working on solutions. 

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This sure has been an interesting read. If I may make a suggestion with regards to the trails in ap pictures?

As with all forms of pollution why not highlight the problem instead of hiding it. Why don’t we produce lovely pictures ruined by star link to show everyone how bad the problem is and how bad it is going to be.

This website is currently asking for challenge suggestions, perhaps this could be the next one. I am going to offer this suggestion.

At the end of the day the best way to show how bad something has become is to display it graphically like a picture of a natural beach covered in ten thousand plastic flip flops or that bit of footage of the dead whale with it’s intestines full of plastic bags.

I am not suggesting that our problem is as big or important as saving sea life but our night skies are still part of our visual environment. From now on I will be going natural, and if there are trails, they are staying in!

Marvin

 

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2 hours ago, Marvin Jenkins said:

From now on I will be going natural, and if there are trails, they are staying in!

⭐

I can see that changing! :angel4:

But I agree with your sentiments entitely. I aint no imager! I'm just playing at edge of the water and barely got my ankles wet yet. Indeed, in my early forays into imaging which only started in April/May I was quite pleased to have captured a few trails too. 

Starlink isn't going to be a problem for imagers in the darker months. Actually they shouldn't be too big a problem for those living in the tropics any time of the year. The Sun is off on its way pretty sharpish after sunset for them, taking glinting satellites with it. So this is a first world, seasonal problem for a niche group in the temperate latitudes. 

Not sure why I ever got involved! Well I am, but that's another story...

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Paul M, I know what you mean, I only started with single test shots just over a year ago and only completed my first two night on the same target a couple months ago.

Second thing is I have no idea why I got involved either! But just like you I am. I suggested the sat trails staying in just to show how the bad the problem may become.

I personally have not been photo bombed by Elon’s swarm and at present am averaging only 6 out of 100 subs going in the bin. A good deal of that is sure to be that I am limited to 60 second exposures.

I think the point of all this is how bad this become in say ten years. I am not so sure about the satellites not being a problem in winter. I am sure I have discarded subs from trails in the dead of winter.

Marv

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Well.. The professional astronomers have some pretty big telescopes...with pretty big lasers for their artificial stars....Repurpose? :evil4:

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22 minutes ago, Marvin Jenkins said:

I am sure I have discarded subs from trails in the dead of winter.

Yes, I'm sure I've seen plenty of satelites passing over at times of the day, all year long. I supose that if they are in high enough orbits and/or highly inclined orbits they'll have more chance of catching the Sun. And maybe the guys holidaying on ISS don't always draw the curtains while in eclipse :)

 

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Fascinating discussion folks, thank you for contributing. It's very interesting to see that we are not all of the same opinion.

Anyway, here is a quick data update. I haven't gathered the whole set yet, but thought it would be interesting to see how the rejection gets on with those trails. So, with minimal processing beyond calibrating, stacking and combining the LRGB data sets in APP...

Here it is with no rejection:

 

NGC7023-Trails-combine-RGB-image-lpc-cbg-St.thumb.jpg.bb22bbf26099afeb09931670e000d498.jpg

 

 

And here it is with sigma rejection:

 

NGC7023-Clean-combine-RGB-image-lpc-cbg-St.thumb.jpg.5c06f699fef410e7e05788812626a080.jpg

 

There is hope after all (as expected!)...

 

(This does not mean I now condone the satellite mega-constellations!)

 

Clear sat-free skies to you all

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So there's hope for my Shark then :thumbsup:

Dave

Shark-trails.png.ce3860042e0c0df6f939a3e5c31b5254.png

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9 minutes ago, PhotoGav said:

Here it is with no rejection:

Excellent ! Superb colour and definition in those trails and you have captured so many,

well done.

, , , Doh ! Ok, I'll get mahatma coat

 

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@Davey-T - they're everywhere! Gather enough subs and they will be just faint inclusions!

@Corncrake - thank you, I was rather pleased with the variation and colours!

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Posted (edited)

Great result there @PhotoGav and aside from the sat trails the results are looking excellent.

I had a good heart to heart with myself in Spain a couple of years ago when having a bit of a bad session with them.  I balanced the pain of them in my images against the benefits of having them there, and the benefits came out on top.  I was sitting 700m up a mountain with satellite broadband, mobile phone, satellite TV and using a GPS dongle on my mount.  I came to the conclusion that they have become a necessary evil for the way I live my life.

Fingers crossed the worst of them, Starlink, doesn't get out of hand and become impossible to process out!

Great thread.

Edited by RayD
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@RayD - thanks, I’m happy with the way the project is progressing, satellites notwithstanding. I think you’ve hit the nail on the head with this sat issue, we are coming to rely on all this technology and there is an opportunity cost that we must bear. The problem is that the skies are busy already, but the current population is just nothing compared to the predicted numbers. Bear in mind that SpaceX have about 500 Starlink satellites in orbit now, but the constellation requires more like three times that number to provide its first level of service.  Multiply that number by the three or four other constellations that are set to be launched over the coming decade and we will be dreaming of the good old days when we had just twenty or so sat trails to deal with in an image! Personally, I think it’s a question of limits, not of an outright ban. Compromise is always the way forwards. 

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4 hours ago, PhotoGav said:

Fascinating discussion folks, thank you for contributing. It's very interesting to see that we are not all of the same opinion.

Anyway, here is a quick data update. I haven't gathered the whole set yet, but thought it would be interesting to see how the rejection gets on with those trails. So, with minimal processing beyond calibrating, stacking and combining the LRGB data sets in APP...

Here it is with no rejection:

 

NGC7023-Trails-combine-RGB-image-lpc-cbg-St.thumb.jpg.bb22bbf26099afeb09931670e000d498.jpg

 

 

And here it is with sigma rejection:

 

NGC7023-Clean-combine-RGB-image-lpc-cbg-St.thumb.jpg.5c06f699fef410e7e05788812626a080.jpg

 

There is hope after all (as expected!)...

 

(This does not mean I now condone the satellite mega-constellations!)

 

Clear sat-free skies to you all

I am not liking Sigma rejection. That is like a green light to fill our skies with really useful junk. How dare you use a bit of software to Instantly solve a terrible problem and massively lessen my chances of putting forward an idea for the next SGL challenge. I want one of those mugs. (No chance)
Marvin.

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