StaaaaaarrrrrgggghhhhhhLink...

[Marvin Jenkins]

This sure has been an interesting read. If I may make a suggestion with regards to the trails in ap pictures?

As with all forms of pollution why not highlight the problem instead of hiding it. Why don’t we produce lovely pictures ruined by star link to show everyone how bad the problem is and how bad it is going to be.

This website is currently asking for challenge suggestions, perhaps this could be the next one. I am going to offer this suggestion.

At the end of the day the best way to show how bad something has become is to display it graphically like a picture of a natural beach covered in ten thousand plastic flip flops or that bit of footage of the dead whale with it’s intestines full of plastic bags.

I am not suggesting that our problem is as big or important as saving sea life but our night skies are still part of our visual environment. From now on I will be going natural, and if there are trails, they are staying in!

Marvin

 

[Paul M]

2 hours ago, Marvin Jenkins said:

From now on I will be going natural, and if there are trails, they are staying in!

⭐

I can see that changing! 

But I agree with your sentiments entitely. I aint no imager! I'm just playing at edge of the water and barely got my ankles wet yet. Indeed, in my early forays into imaging which only started in April/May I was quite pleased to have captured a few trails too. 

Starlink isn't going to be a problem for imagers in the darker months. Actually they shouldn't be too big a problem for those living in the tropics any time of the year. The Sun is off on its way pretty sharpish after sunset for them, taking glinting satellites with it. So this is a first world, seasonal problem for a niche group in the temperate latitudes. 

Not sure why I ever got involved! Well I am, but that's another story...

[Marvin Jenkins]

Paul M, I know what you mean, I only started with single test shots just over a year ago and only completed my first two night on the same target a couple months ago.

Second thing is I have no idea why I got involved either! But just like you I am. I suggested the sat trails staying in just to show how the bad the problem may become.

I personally have not been photo bombed by Elon’s swarm and at present am averaging only 6 out of 100 subs going in the bin. A good deal of that is sure to be that I am limited to 60 second exposures.

I think the point of all this is how bad this become in say ten years. I am not so sure about the satellites not being a problem in winter. I am sure I have discarded subs from trails in the dead of winter.

Marv

[DaveS]

Well.. The professional astronomers have some pretty big telescopes...with pretty big lasers for their artificial stars....Repurpose?

[Paul M]

22 minutes ago, Marvin Jenkins said:

I am sure I have discarded subs from trails in the dead of winter.

Yes, I'm sure I've seen plenty of satelites passing over at times of the day, all year long. I supose that if they are in high enough orbits and/or highly inclined orbits they'll have more chance of catching the Sun. And maybe the guys holidaying on ISS don't always draw the curtains while in eclipse

 

[PhotoGav]

Fascinating discussion folks, thank you for contributing. It's very interesting to see that we are not all of the same opinion.

Anyway, here is a quick data update. I haven't gathered the whole set yet, but thought it would be interesting to see how the rejection gets on with those trails. So, with minimal processing beyond calibrating, stacking and combining the LRGB data sets in APP...

Here it is with no rejection:

 

 

 

And here it is with sigma rejection:

 

 

There is hope after all (as expected!)...

 

(This does not mean I now condone the satellite mega-constellations!)

 

Clear sat-free skies to you all

[Davey-T]

So there's hope for my Shark then 

Dave

[Corncrake]

9 minutes ago, PhotoGav said:

Here it is with no rejection:

Excellent ! Superb colour and definition in those trails and you have captured so many,

well done.

, , , Doh ! Ok, I'll get mahatma coat

 

[PhotoGav]

@Davey-T - they're everywhere! Gather enough subs and they will be just faint inclusions!

@Corncrake - thank you, I was rather pleased with the variation and colours!

[RayD]

Great result there @PhotoGav and aside from the sat trails the results are looking excellent.

I had a good heart to heart with myself in Spain a couple of years ago when having a bit of a bad session with them.  I balanced the pain of them in my images against the benefits of having them there, and the benefits came out on top.  I was sitting 700m up a mountain with satellite broadband, mobile phone, satellite TV and using a GPS dongle on my mount.  I came to the conclusion that they have become a necessary evil for the way I live my life.

Fingers crossed the worst of them, Starlink, doesn't get out of hand and become impossible to process out!

Great thread.

Edited July 1, 2020 by RayD

[PhotoGav]

@RayD - thanks, I’m happy with the way the project is progressing, satellites notwithstanding. I think you’ve hit the nail on the head with this sat issue, we are coming to rely on all this technology and there is an opportunity cost that we must bear. The problem is that the skies are busy already, but the current population is just nothing compared to the predicted numbers. Bear in mind that SpaceX have about 500 Starlink satellites in orbit now, but the constellation requires more like three times that number to provide its first level of service.  Multiply that number by the three or four other constellations that are set to be launched over the coming decade and we will be dreaming of the good old days when we had just twenty or so sat trails to deal with in an image! Personally, I think it’s a question of limits, not of an outright ban. Compromise is always the way forwards. 

[Marvin Jenkins]

4 hours ago, PhotoGav said:

Fascinating discussion folks, thank you for contributing. It's very interesting to see that we are not all of the same opinion.

Anyway, here is a quick data update. I haven't gathered the whole set yet, but thought it would be interesting to see how the rejection gets on with those trails. So, with minimal processing beyond calibrating, stacking and combining the LRGB data sets in APP...

Here it is with no rejection:

 

 

 

And here it is with sigma rejection:

 

 

There is hope after all (as expected!)...

 

(This does not mean I now condone the satellite mega-constellations!)

 

Clear sat-free skies to you all

I am not liking Sigma rejection. That is like a green light to fill our skies with really useful junk. How dare you use a bit of software to Instantly solve a terrible problem and massively lessen my chances of putting forward an idea for the next SGL challenge. I want one of those mugs. (No chance)
Marvin.

[Zakalwe]

On 01/07/2020 at 18:03, PhotoGav said:

Fascinating discussion folks, thank you for contributing. It's very interesting to see that we are not all of the same opinion.

Anyway, here is a quick data update. I haven't gathered the whole set yet, but thought it would be interesting to see how the rejection gets on with those trails. So, with minimal processing beyond calibrating, stacking and combining the LRGB data sets in APP...

Here it is with no rejection:

 

 

 

And here it is with sigma rejection:

 

 

There is hope after all (as expected!)...

 

(This does not mean I now condone the satellite mega-constellations!)

 

Clear sat-free skies to you all

That's a great result and a damn fine image.

Looks like the outrage bus won't be as full as we first thought.

In other news, tonight's launch of the next batch of Starlink will be testing visorsto shield the antennae from the Sun. https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/07/spacex-will-try-to-launch-starlink-satellites-with-visors-on-tuesday/

 

 

[PhotoGav]

8 minutes ago, Zakalwe said:

That's a great result and a damn fine image.

Looks like the outrage bus won't be as full as we first thought.

In other news, tonight's launch of the next batch of Starlink will be testing visorsto shield the antennae from the Sun. https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/07/spacex-will-try-to-launch-starlink-satellites-with-visors-on-tuesday/

Thank you - I look forward to gathering a load more luminance for this project now that the Moon is on the wane again. I would say that much more than normal is required to combat all the satellite trails, but that would just be inflamatory!!

It will be very interesting to see how effective the brightness mitigation strategies that SpaceX are trying really are. I finally watched last month's Sky At Night, which has a whole section about the Starlink satellites. Makes for very interesting viewing.

[RayD]

11 minutes ago, PhotoGav said:

to combat all the satellite trails, but that would just be inflamatory

Satellite trails?........... Where? 😉

[Zakalwe]

22 minutes ago, RayD said:

Satellite trails?........... Where? 😉

You won't see them........ they're above  the wall-to-wall couds🙄

[RayD]

3 minutes ago, Zakalwe said:

You won't see them........ they're above  the wall-to-wall couds🙄

Oh how sad but true that is!!!! 😳