Software to test for faults on usb lead

[Mikyg]

Hi all does anyone know if there is a software you can use to check for faults in a usb lead from my computer to my mount. It all seems to connect fine but my goto’s keep just going haywire.

[Cornelius Varley]

6 minutes ago, Mikyg said:

goto’s keep just going haywire.

These can sometimes be due to an inadequate power supply. 

[JOC]

I don't know what you can use software wise, but I have had experience that sometimes USB leads are very specific for certain applications and you can't just use any old USB lead in certain situations.

[vlaiv]

I think that USB connection is abstracted away too much from software (good thing for software developers). It just acts as serial connection to software and the best thing you can do is just send / receive over it.

Controllers handle any issues with noise / speed of transfer / possible errors and correction mechanism ....

[Mikyg]

I've used it for months and its been fine but just seems to have started doing it.

21 minutes ago, Cornelius Varley said:

These can sometimes be due to an inadequate power supply. 

This shouldn;t be a problem as the hub its connected to has its own power supply but i'll check everything to make sure its tightly connected etc thanks

[michael8554]

If the Goto has come from the handset then USB isn't involved.

If the Goto has come from software on a PC then USB is invoved.

But once the request has been sent, the GoTo behaviour is down to the mount.

And as Cornelius said, this can be due to inadequate power supply. 

Not to the USB, but to the mount.

Michael

[Mikyg]

1 hour ago, michael8554 said:

If the Goto has come from the handset then USB isn't involved.

If the Goto has come from software on a PC then USB is invoved.

But once the request has been sent, the GoTo behaviour is down to the mount.

And as Cornelius said, this can be due to inadequate power supply. 

Not to the USB, but to the mount.

Michael

Its just strange, i’ve always used the same 12v 5a power pack for the mount and usb but i use 3amp to my camera and filter wheel. I’ve done some tweeks to the mount this weekend so i’ll see what happens when i next get it out.

[SimM]

I'm, not a fan of the SkyWatcher coiled lead from mount to the HC - as it will always be in tension if you hold the HC. Have you tried a CAT5 Ethernet cable as an alternative?

In the Utility menu you can check Information like the voltage at the mount? It doesn't update so you have to exit and return to see an update. It may be less than you were expecting?

Does it go awry when you slew or after tracking at sidereal? At speed 9 or 5?

For signalling a USB2 cable has a range of about 5M whereas a USB3 cable is less e.g. 2M, so USB 3 is higher speed but less range e.g. not always better.

Simon 

[michael8554]

19 hours ago, Mikyg said:

my goto’s keep just going haywire.

What does that mean exactly ?

Michael

[Cornelius Varley]

7 hours ago, Mikyg said:

Its just strange, i’ve always used the same 12v 5a power pack for the mount and usb but i use 3amp to my camera and filter wheel.

A number of years ago a member of SGL had slewing issues with his mount. All the symptoms pointed to a faulty power supply yet the member remained adamant that there was nothing wrong with psu.  He then sent the mount off to a retailer who bench tested the mount and could find nothing wrong with it. The mount was then returned with a clean bill of health (and possibly a bill) and plugged back into the same psu. The erratic behaviour of the mount of course returned. It wasn't until the mount was plugged into another psu that it started to perform as it should. Don't assume that the psu cannot be the cause of the problem, they do fail .

[Mikyg]

47 minutes ago, Cornelius Varley said:

A number of years ago a member of SGL had slewing issues with his mount. All the symptoms pointed to a faulty power supply yet the member remained adamant that there was nothing wrong with psu.  He then sent the mount off to a retailer who bench tested the mount and could find nothing wrong with it. The mount was then returned with a clean bill of health (and possibly a bill) and plugged back into the same psu. The erratic behaviour of the mount of course returned. It wasn't until the mount was plugged into another psu that it started to perform as it should. Don't assume that the psu cannot be the cause of the problem, they do fail .

I’m going to try new a new psu i just thought if it was the psu that my computer would have lost connection altogether but I’ll definitely give it a try 

[Mikyg]

1 hour ago, michael8554 said:

What does that mean exactly ?

Michael

When i use the goto to a star etc the mount ends up in the complete wrong direction and in some unusual positions.

[Mikyg]

7 hours ago, SimM said:

I'm, not a fan of the SkyWatcher coiled lead from mount to the HC - as it will always be in tension if you hold the HC. Have you tried a CAT5 Ethernet cable as an alternative?

In the Utility menu you can check Information like the voltage at the mount? It doesn't update so you have to exit and return to see an update. It may be less than you were expecting?

Does it go awry when you slew or after tracking at sidereal? At speed 9 or 5?

For signalling a USB2 cable has a range of about 5M whereas a USB3 cable is less e.g. 2M, so USB 3 is higher speed but less range e.g. not always better.

Simon 

Hi i dont really use the hand controller, i use the eqmod interface connected to my computer and GS Server to control it

[SimM]

It is unlikely to be the cable if you are not actively sending a GOTO command.

However, in Windows there is an option to control the speed of the serial port - have you tried setting it to 9600 baud (or even 115K baud). Some mounts have a serial port connection or a USB port that's connected to a serial port e.g. not directly accessible. HC is a serial interface. 

When you say it goes to the wrong location, is it always or only sometimes?

Perhaps you have tried a 2 star alignment and then returned to either of the named two stars, as well as somewhere else? Immediately and later?

Simon 

Edited June 21, 2020 by SimM

[uhb1966]

APT has the possibility to show you USB commands, and there's a free demo - here: https://www.astrophotography.app/downloads.php

 

Edited June 21, 2020 by uhb1966

[Mikyg]

27 minutes ago, SimM said:

It is unlikely to be the cable if you are not actively sending a GOTO command.

However, in Windows there is an option to control the speed of the serial port - have you tried setting it to 9600 baud (or even 115K baud). Some mounts have a serial port connection or a USB port that's connected to a serial port e.g. not directly accessible. HC is a serial interface. 

When you say it goes to the wrong location, is it always or only sometimes?

Perhaps you have tried a 2 star alignment and then returned to either of the named two stars, as well as somewhere else? Immediately and later?

Simon 

I dont do a 2 star alignment as i only really use the eqmod and computer. I've not changed any port settings but i'll check the speeds later in device manager.  The computer sends the goto command then completely over shoots to the wrong location. I use a gps receiver so i cant see it being one the location settings and always try to have a good/excellent polar alignment in sharpcap. I suppose i'm just going to have to start trying new cables/power adaptors until i get to the bottom of it. Thanks for the tips

[Mikyg]

5 minutes ago, uhb1966 said:

APT has the possibility to show you USB commands, and there's a free demo - here: https://www.astrophotography.app/downloads.php

 

Really? I have APT on my computer i'll check it out  thanks

[discardedastro]

3 hours ago, Mikyg said:

I’m going to try new a new psu i just thought if it was the psu that my computer would have lost connection altogether but I’ll definitely give it a try 

Not so - the drive electronics and comms electronics are fairly well separated, and even if the mount is struggling with current for drive, there'll be enough juice in the tank to keep the lower-voltage control electronics happy. The motor electronics all run around 12V, but the internal comms and control buses all will be at 5V or 3.3V fed from a regulator which will produce those voltages even with serious under-volting.

For a steam train analogy, your PC's just talking to the driver, who can still blow their whistle and ask for more coal in the boiler. The fact that the train's run out of coal is not necessarily obvious to the driver. The control electronics can ask the motors to run at speed X for time Y, but if there's only enough drive current capacity to let the motors run at 0.8 of X, then Y is now wrong and your pointing will be incorrect.

Power supplies are always underlooked as key, key components in any observatory or telescope rig. Being able to supply enough power reliably at all times for all components in concert is kind of essential. I would always aim for a PSU which is designed for 50-100% more power than you estimate you will need. On an EQ6-R Pro with 50% loading (~12kg) I can quite easily pull over 4-5A at times; I would not be surprised to see an NEQ6 pulling over 5A with what you've got on it, at which point your 5A rated supply is going to be really struggling if it's working properly. If it's got any degradation at all then you'll be well under requirements.

Edit: and no, USB cable testing is the preserve of dedicated test hardware (and actually quite hard, especially for USB 3 cables - you're talking tens of thousands for a cable certifier that'll tell you anything useful). Buy another cable if you suspect a cable is faulty, and buy from a reputable supplier/vendor - it's much cheaper!

Edited June 21, 2020 by discardedastro

[michael8554]

1 hour ago, Mikyg said:

The computer sends the goto command then completely over shoots to the wrong location.

Does the PC software show the correct RA/Dec at the end of the wrong GoTo ?

Michael

[Mikyg]

5 hours ago, discardedastro said:

Not so - the drive electronics and comms electronics are fairly well separated, and even if the mount is struggling with current for drive, there'll be enough juice in the tank to keep the lower-voltage control electronics happy. The motor electronics all run around 12V, but the internal comms and control buses all will be at 5V or 3.3V fed from a regulator which will produce those voltages even with serious under-volting.

For a steam train analogy, your PC's just talking to the driver, who can still blow their whistle and ask for more coal in the boiler. The fact that the train's run out of coal is not necessarily obvious to the driver. The control electronics can ask the motors to run at speed X for time Y, but if there's only enough drive current capacity to let the motors run at 0.8 of X, then Y is now wrong and your pointing will be incorrect.

Power supplies are always underlooked as key, key components in any observatory or telescope rig. Being able to supply enough power reliably at all times for all components in concert is kind of essential. I would always aim for a PSU which is designed for 50-100% more power than you estimate you will need. On an EQ6-R Pro with 50% loading (~12kg) I can quite easily pull over 4-5A at times; I would not be surprised to see an NEQ6 pulling over 5A with what you've got on it, at which point your 5A rated supply is going to be really struggling if it's working properly. If it's got any degradation at all then you'll be well under requirements.

Edit: and no, USB cable testing is the preserve of dedicated test hardware (and actually quite hard, especially for USB 3 cables - you're talking tens of thousands for a cable certifier that'll tell you anything useful). Buy another cable if you suspect a cable is faulty, and buy from a reputable supplier/vendor - it's much cheaper!

Ok thank you so much, i'm thinking of buying a 25a power supply to power everything at home and one of the skywatcher mobile power banks for when taking it out. Would there be a decent power supply you know of

[Mikyg]

4 hours ago, michael8554 said:

Does the PC software show the correct RA/Dec at the end of the wrong GoTo ?

Michael

Thats a good point i'll make sure i check when i next use it

[discardedastro]

1 minute ago, Mikyg said:

Ok thank you so much, i'm thinking of buying a 25a power supply to power everything at home and one of the skywatcher mobile power banks for when taking it out. Would there be a decent power supply you know of

The Nevada PSUs are well-regarded, e.g. https://www.firstlightoptics.com/batteries-powerpacks/nevada-psw-30-25-30a-switch-mode-power-supply.html would fit the bill in theory. 25A sounds like a lot, though - https://www.firstlightoptics.com/batteries-powerpacks/nevada-ps-08-6a-8a-regulated-linear-power-supply.html is likely to be enough if you're just using an NEQ6 and a camera or two, focuser etc.

[malc-c]

I presume by the fact that standard serial communications and EQmod has meen mention in this "USB" post that the mount is connected to a PC via an EQDir cable.  If so is the cable plugged directly into the PC or via some form of USB extension lead.  If via an extension lead then this may be where the issue is as USB signals cannot be guaranteed to maintain integrity over 5m distance unless an active cable is used.  However if the issue is with communications EQMOD will report a comms error.

25amp is overkill for a PSU to drive a Skywatcher mount.  An HEQ5 / EQ6 typically draws 1.9amp on each motor so a 5amp supply would be the minimum, 10amp would be ample

You mention that gotos are off, yet you also stated that you don't do the alignment procedure.  Is the scope permanently mounted in an observatory ?  - If not then the rouge goto's are probably more to do with poor PA than the instructions to direct it.  Unless the mount is fixed, you will still need to clear and re-do the alignment points in EQMOD for each session, otherwise the corrections it used from the previous session will be used, which will naturally be wrong as the scope has been moved.

[Mikyg]

23 minutes ago, malc-c said:

I presume by the fact that standard serial communications and EQmod has meen mention in this "USB" post that the mount is connected to a PC via an EQDir cable.  If so is the cable plugged directly into the PC or via some form of USB extension lead.  If via an extension lead then this may be where the issue is as USB signals cannot be guaranteed to maintain integrity over 5m distance unless an active cable is used.  However if the issue is with communications EQMOD will report a comms error.

25amp is overkill for a PSU to drive a Skywatcher mount.  An HEQ5 / EQ6 typically draws 1.9amp on each motor so a 5amp supply would be the minimum, 10amp would be ample

You mention that gotos are off, yet you also stated that you don't do the alignment procedure.  Is the scope permanently mounted in an observatory ?  - If not then the rouge goto's are probably more to do with poor PA than the instructions to direct it.  Unless the mount is fixed, you will still need to clear and re-do the alignment points in EQMOD for each session, otherwise the corrections it used from the previous session will be used, which will naturally be wrong as the scope has been moved.

Yes i use an eqdirect seriel to usb interface and a 5m active usb lead which i’ve always used. I dont use eqmod, i use a software called GSS (Green Swamp Server) to control the scope and i use N.I.N.A and astap platesolve but its that far off lately. 
 

i do use the sharpcap polar alignment tool to Polar align but i dont do a 3 star align procedure as i only use a computer. I’ll check those power supplies out thanks.

[Mikyg]

1 hour ago, discardedastro said:

The Nevada PSUs are well-regarded, e.g. https://www.firstlightoptics.com/batteries-powerpacks/nevada-psw-30-25-30a-switch-mode-power-supply.html would fit the bill in theory. 25A sounds like a lot, though - https://www.firstlightoptics.com/batteries-powerpacks/nevada-ps-08-6a-8a-regulated-linear-power-supply.html is likely to be enough if you're just using an NEQ6 and a camera or two, focuser etc.

I’ve just had a look at the 25a power supply and it looks perfect for what i need, i’m going to keep my eye out for one now. Thank you