Help Needed - AZ GTi payload question

[dd999]

Hi All,

I'm brand new on here but not a complete newb. I've owned various telescopes in the past but time for a bit of an upgrade.

I have a question about the payload of the AZ GTi WiFi mount. I already own a Skywatcher 130p (not the Heritage) which, looking online, seems to have an OTA weight of 4kg - which seems suitable for the AZ GTi mount, which carries up to a 5kg payload. I want to eventually add a dslr on to this, but am I really stretching the weight limit here?

I thought I could just buy the mount, and purchase a Manfrotto tripod elsewhere for more stability, but it doesn't seem to help with the maximum payload the AZ GTi can take (?)

The AZ GTi can be purchased as a package with the 130ps, which I understabnd may be a little lighter as it's built in a way that it can't be collamised for weight advantages, but this 'package' comes with DSLR fittings - so I wasn't sure if the 130ps is significantly lighter than the 130p to take the dslr with ease?

I'm going to be using the 130p in the interim, alongside a Skyhawk 114 or Star Travel 102 until I convince the missus that this isn't another of my five minute wonders, and then invest in an Evostar 72ed or 80ed for this mount.

I'm really keen on the mount due to the goto capabilities, and I need something REALLY portable, as frankly I'm lazy and less inclined if it's a beast, plus I want to take this overseas. So investing in to an EQ5 pro or HEQ5 pro just isn't an option.

Very lastly (thanks for reading this far!) I can get a AZ GTi with tripod for £285 or a AZ GTe mount, tripod with a Skyhawk 114 for exactly the same price. I prefer the idea of a smaller scope to trial travelling, rather than the 130p and just take the 130p out for special occassions or in the back garden,. Like the idea of travelling around and testing a smaller scope first, but am I really losing much between the AZ GTi and the AZ GTe?

I get the GTe doesn't allow you to go manual without re-setting everything back to the start - but are people really using it, without just using the goto?  

Edited June 17, 2020 by dd999

[johninderby]

The old AZ GT mount has been arround for many years but the AZ-GTi is a newer and more capable mount. The idea of releasing the clutches and moving the mount manually is for quickly moving the scope to a new position then tightening the clutches. As you are not getting a hand control with the Az-GTi that saves a fair bit of money so Skywatcher is able to supply a better mount for a good price.

The 130ps does have a fixed primary and you can only adjust the secondary mirror but doesn’t seem to be a problem.

[bomberbaz]

Om another note the supplied tripod the az gti comes with is not the best. I think you can tighten it up a lttle to make it less shaky but I didn't know this at the time. Still glad I upgraded.

I upgraded mine to the steel tripod supplied by FLO which is far better.  It is noticeably heavier though.

[johninderby]

The Manfrotto 475 tripod works well but is expensive new but one can be picked up cheaper on eBay.

I use one with my AZ-GTi. I also use a TS counterbalance system that increases the payload.

Edited June 17, 2020 by johninderby

[dd999]

31 minutes ago, bomberbaz said:

Om another note the supplied tripod the az gti comes with is not the best. I think you can tighten it up a lttle to make it less shaky but I didn't know this at the time. Still glad I upgraded.

I upgraded mine to the steel tripod supplied by FLO which is far better.  It is noticeably heavier though.

I guess that's another dilemma I have.

In re-reading my garbled rant, I guess I could summarise my dilemma in to the following questions:

 

1. Is the AZ GTi (and AZ GTe) capable of taking a 130p (not just the 130ps it comes with one of the package deals) and a DSLR, and still goto and track?

2. Do I go for just the AZ GTi head, and buy a Manfrotto mount (about £320) - or the AT GTe, light tripod and Skyhawk 1145PS (for £320)....... and then potentially sell the light tripod it comes with, and pick up a second hand Manfrotto (both combinations are roughly the same price, but the latter also gives me a small scope to travel with in the interim);

3. If I go for the latter option in 2, am I missing much by opting for the AZ GTe rather than the AZ GTi?

Thanks!

[happy-kat]

Hi

I think you might be confusing the 130ps with a 130pds. Only the latter will focus with a dslr straight off, the 130p and 130ps as far as I know the mirror is too far away and you don't reach focus when using a mirrored dslr (I'll not sure even a mirrorless one does).

Edited June 17, 2020 by happy-kat

[happy-kat]

3 - as perhaps the azgte can not take the free firmware update that offers synscan pro app and the eq mode. You could research that to confirm.

[dd999]

23 minutes ago, happy-kat said:

I think you are confusing the 130ps with a 130pds. Only the latter will focus with a dslr straight off, the 130p and 130ps as far as I know the mirror is to far away and you don't reach focus when using a mirrored dslr (I'll not sure even a mirrorless one does).

Ahh yes you're right - thanks! Hadn't seen this. Partly achievable apparently with the right Barlow, but not ideal. Will still be good to use with the 130p with the AZ GTe but looks like I'll have to wait for the ED80 before hooking up to a dslr - or look for small refractor in the meantime.

 

17 minutes ago, happy-kat said:

3 - as perhaps the azgte can not take the free firmware update that offers synscan pro app and the eq mode. You could research that to confirm.

I have researched this already. Having it in EQ mode is really important. I couldn't find anything official about the firmware update - only one post from someone on here who apparently managed to update the firmware, and turn in to an EQ, on the AZ GTe. Don't like taking the risk though. May be a factor right there.

 

Edited June 17, 2020 by dd999

[Dr Strange]

Visually, yes you can use it with the 130 no problem. For AP... I wouldn't do it. At most a 80-92mm APO with the DSLR would likely be it without running into issues.

[johngm]

29 minutes ago, dd999 said:

Ahh yes you're right - thanks! Hadn't seen this. Partly achievable apparently with the right Barlow, but not ideal. Will still be good to use with the 130p with the AZ GTe but looks like I'll have to wait for the ED80 before hooking up to a dslr - or look for small refractor in the meantime.

 

I have researched this already. Having it in EQ mode is really important. I couldn't find anything official about the firmware update - only one post from someone on here who apparently managed to update the firmware, and turn in to an EQ, on the AZ GTe. Don't like taking the risk though. May be a factor right there.

 

Also, remember you will need the EQ wedge if you want to use it in EQ mode, and a counter weight Bar and Counter weight 👍

John

Edited June 17, 2020 by johngm
Missing information

[ScouseSpaceCadet]

It's a case of exceed the payload at your own risk.

I've used a Startravel 120 on the AZ-GTI. The Startravel with accessories is 5.5kg+. The mount worked as intended, but I returned an AZ-GTI unit with the 'clicking while tracking' problem I've read about elsewhere.

Both my current scopes weigh less than 5kg loaded. A Skymax 102 and a modded Star Discovery 150P.

 

Use bathroom scales to weigh your current telescope with any eyepieces and accessories attached. If the weight exceeds 5kg then maybe think twice.

 

Edited June 17, 2020 by ScouseSpaceCadet

[dd999]

Thanks all! - Really helpful!

One (stupid!) question but can't find an answer anywhere - if I start off by using my own 130p (which I currently have on an EQ2 mount) in the standard alt az mode - do I need a separate pier or dovetail to connect the 130p to the AZ GTi?! - it doesn't look as if the mount head comes with any attachments, and I can't see a pier or dovetail on FLO or anywhere else!?

I can't see how the telescope connects to the AZ GTi

All photos of the 130p connected are in EQ mode where a dovetail is used to connect between the rings. 

Can see in ScouseSpaceCadet's photo there's a dovetail between the rings, but when looking at this https://www.firstlightoptics.com/sky-watcher-az-gti-wifi/sky-watcher-explorer-130ps-az-gti.html - there's a small green dovebar. Can't see to buy this anywhere and doesn't look to come with the AZ GTi head.

Just don't want to order everything and need more accessories when it arrives, and wait even longer!  

Edited June 17, 2020 by dd999

[johninderby]

Yes it takes standard vixen type dovetails so you will want to fit a vixen type dovetails to the 130p. The EQ2 uses the short little bar. You will need the medium dovetail bar.

https://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/skywatcher-universal-dovetail-bars.html

It bolts onto the rings like this..

Edited June 17, 2020 by johninderby

[happy-kat]

Why not share a photo of what your own telescope has?

[dd999]

50 minutes ago, johninderby said:

Yes it takes standard vixen type dovetails so you will want to fit a vixen type dovetails to the 130p. The EQ2 uses the short little bar. You will need the medium dovetail bar.

https://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/skywatcher-universal-dovetail-bars.html

It bolts onto the rings like this..

Perfect - yes makes absolute sense now

Thanks!

[david_taurus83]

Kit about 5kg and 2kg counterweight. I used this setup for 5 minute guided exposures. The best guiding I got out of it was around 1.2" RMS with 1.5" being more the norm.

[dd999]

18 minutes ago, david_taurus83 said:

Kit about 5kg and 2kg counterweight. I used this setup for 5 minute guided exposures. The best guiding I got out of it was around 1.2" RMS with 1.5" being more the norm.

Impressive - do you find the Manfrotto 055 sturdy enough under the weight? Assume it's the xprob?

I'm just about to buy steel tripod legs - https://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/skywatcher-stainless-steel-tripod-with-38-thread.html - but would prefer something a little more portable

[david_taurus83]

5 minutes ago, dd999 said:

Impressive - do you find the Manfrotto 055 sturdy enough under the weight? Assume it's the xprob?

I'm just about to buy steel tripod legs - https://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/skywatcher-stainless-steel-tripod-with-38-thread.html - but would prefer something a little more portable

Yes XPROB. I used to spread the legs out another click and have the setup low to the ground. Was very stable. As is in the pic, it was a little forward heavy towards the weights as the wedge is inverted due to how you have to mount the AZGTi.

[happy-kat]

I'm a fan of freedom find as I have it on the virtuoso and am in use of it regularly, during setup, or when in tracking and I've knocked the mount off target for example (I've added handset), plus I can still observe if I have no power and just use the mount manually by hand.

[knobby]

44 minutes ago, david_taurus83 said:

Kit about 5kg and 2kg counterweight. I used this setup for 5 minute guided exposures. The best guiding I got out of it was around 1.2" RMS with 1.5" being more the norm.

If you get a good one it really is a cracking mount, love your set up, very similar to mine, I've managed 500 seconds too but more like 1.8 arc secs.

[david_taurus83]

3 minutes ago, knobby said:

If you get a good one it really is a cracking mount, love your set up, very similar to mine, I've managed 500 seconds too but more like 1.8 arc secs.

I actually sold it a while back and got a CEM25P so I could use my 102mm scope for imaging again. Mine was really good on RA but had a lot of Dec backlash. Still guided fine. Worked best to guide in North/South only and dither in RA.

[PeterW]

Make sure you balance it well or it will fail to track or take ages moving in certain directions. Set the balance with the eyepiece or other kit at the focal position... so you aren’t asking it to do too much hard work.

Peter

[bomberbaz]

6 hours ago, dd999 said:

Ahh yes you're right - thanks! Hadn't seen this. Partly achievable apparently with the right Barlow, but not ideal. Will still be good to use with the 130p with the AZ GTe but looks like I'll have to wait for the ED80 before hooking up to a dslr - or look for small refractor in the meantime.

 

I have researched this already. Having it in EQ mode is really important. I couldn't find anything official about the firmware update - only one post from someone on here who apparently managed to update the firmware, and turn in to an EQ, on the AZ GTe. Don't like taking the risk though. May be a factor right there.

 

I converted mine to EQ mode, dead simple. Quite a few videos on youtube abuot it too. I use mine all the time in eq mode without problem. 

[dd999]

1 hour ago, bomberbaz said:

I converted mine to EQ mode, dead simple. Quite a few videos on youtube abuot it too. I use mine all the time in eq mode without problem. 

Do you have the AZ GTi or the AZ Gte? - if it's the GTe, do you ever regret not getting the GTi?

I saw Happy-Kat's comment, and makes sense. Would be good to put us manually time to time, or quickly reset it back if you trip over the damn thing in the dark.

I have the option of a GTi, or a GTe with a ST 102, for exactly the same price. Love the idea of a getting a small refractor with it for those spontaneous grab and go moments (rather than take the 130p out with me every time) - but equally don't want to miss out on the AZ GTi's Freedom Find and regret it later.

Sorry - thinking out loud! 

Edited June 17, 2020 by dd999

[bomberbaz]

I have the AZ GTi