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The Future of Imaging - Is everything heading OSC


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3 hours ago, DaveS said:

If you can hang on until Feb there will be a mono version of the QHY268. Should be awesome.

 

I am not under any pressure. Heck, I am still waiting for my first astrocamera (ASI462).

At worst, if finances don't cooperate, I might go the second-hand route for a filter wheel, a filter set and a recent monochrome camera.

N.F.

 

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15 hours ago, nfotis said:

I think that I'll delay my DSO camera purchase for a year, to see if the current generation of CMOS sensors will yield a monochrome version.

Then we'll be able to see a head-to-head comparison and decide if the higher cost for the special order sensor and filters/filter wheels will be acceptable...

Comparing a current OSC sensor with a decade-old monochrome sensor isn't very enlightening.

Cheers,

N.F. (living under a Bortle 8 sky)

 

13 hours ago, tomato said:

When you look at examples of Olly’s work with this camera, I can see why it’s still on the market.

15 hours ago, Adam J said:

The super odd thing about it is that it has not been discontinued yet. 

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/atik-cameras/atik-11000-mono.html

Adam

As I've said several times on here, the 'numbers' on the 11000 don't look very promising. However, the data from the camera is a joy to process. Those entirely addicted to theory will dismiss this as they might dismiss astrology, but I'll stand by it. So what's good about the data from this camera and why is it so nice to work with?

- Provided you have decent integration the final noise is very low. (I calibrate with Bias as dark, BPM, flats and hot pixel filter.)

- The background sky comes up to a decent level naturally. (My Sony-chipped Atik 460 data has to be badgered into reaching a decent value and has many pixels which are too dark in the background, obliging me to do a special curve stretch on the background-only parts.)

- The dynamic range in the final image is easy to work with, the faint stuff coming up easily and the bright stuff not easily saturated.

- Stars require no effort, there are no lensing artifacts etc.

- Colour is just great. I can't explain this, but it just comes out 'right' without a fight. That's both star colour and nebula colour from bright to faint. Colour from the 460 is much harder work. 

 

The part of this game which I enjoy the most is post processing and I enjoy processing the 11000 data more than any other because it is somehow incredibly co-operative. And I like the results, some of which are here:

https://www.astrobin.com/3wnqx9/?nc=user

https://www.astrobin.com/phk0cx/?nc=user

https://www.astrobin.com/383965/?nc=user

https://www.astrobin.com/380941/?nc=user

https://www.astrobin.com/295716/?image_list_page=2&nc=&nce=

Maybe I'm just old fashioned. I also like my not-very-modern, not-very-fast Royal Enfield as well! Best to ignore me. 🤣

1493712020_650Tiny.jpg.98061f1594f9a50dea9a9fb5ac15fece.jpg

Olly

PS While I wouldn't consider an OSC CCD I'm still open minded on the modern CMOS.

 

 

Edited by ollypenrice
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  • 1 month later...
On 29/05/2020 at 20:28, Northernlight said:

So this got me wondering about the future of Narowband imaging - Where does this leave us if most new sensors will be OSC ?

I very much doubt that sensors will be exclusively OSC.

Professional astronomers will absolutely require that their observations be reconcilable with the standard  Johnson-Cousins UBVRI...  the Sloan ugriz ..., or Strömgren ubv ... pass bands and will not stand for the loss of sensitivity consequent on splitting the incoming photons over multiple detector sites.

You may have to pay more to be able to play with the big boys.

 

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1 hour ago, Xilman said:

I very much doubt that sensors will be exclusively OSC.

Professional astronomers will absolutely require that their observations be reconcilable with the standard  Johnson-Cousins UBVRI...  the Sloan ugriz ..., or Strömgren ubv ... pass bands and will not stand for the loss of sensitivity consequent on splitting the incoming photons over multiple detector sites.

You may have to pay more to be able to play with the big boys.

 

Yes, same with us spectrocopists mono is a given. Don't fancy E2V prices though!

Regards Andrew 

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you all make fair points - i just think that there is a much larger choice of OSC camera when compared to options available for mono in the consumer market these days, whilst going back 5-10 years ago the market for camera was predominantly mono, so i think there has definitely been a transition to more people wanting OSC than mono.

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On 13/11/2020 at 23:53, Northernlight said:

you all make fair points - i just think that there is a much larger choice of OSC camera when compared to options available for mono in the consumer market these days, whilst going back 5-10 years ago the market for camera was predominantly mono, so i think there has definitely been a transition to more people wanting OSC than mono.

I'm not sure it's so much a transition to people WANTING OSC over mono, rather than there being more OSC camera's available than mono at a cheaper price. I have a OSC camera (ASI533) and it was £900. That's all I need to get very good, clean data. There's no mono version even available for this sensor (yet) but if there is it is likely to cost around the £1500 mark. Add to that the filter wheel and filters required then you're adding perhaps a thousand pounds or more to go mono.

Will the images be better? Subjectively yes, of course. Higher QE etc etc. However, when you stop pixel peeping and just enjoy the images coming from the camera is it worth spending that extra £1000 to get marginally better images? To some, sure. To others, I would suggest not.

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2 hours ago, Phillyo said:

I'm not sure it's so much a transition to people WANTING OSC over mono, rather than there being more OSC camera's available than mono at a cheaper price. I have a OSC camera (ASI533) and it was £900. That's all I need to get very good, clean data. There's no mono version even available for this sensor (yet) but if there is it is likely to cost around the £1500 mark. Add to that the filter wheel and filters required then you're adding perhaps a thousand pounds or more to go mono.

Will the images be better? Subjectively yes, of course. Higher QE etc etc. However, when you stop pixel peeping and just enjoy the images coming from the camera is it worth spending that extra £1000 to get marginally better images? To some, sure. To others, I would suggest not.

It wont be £1500, I would guess at slightly cheaper than an ASI1600mm pro, something in the £1100 range. But I am expecting it to be released in any case, just not till the end of 2021 at the earliest. When it is ill be buying one.

Adam

Edited by Adam J
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I don’t think everything is heading OSC, but when you take a look at what is being produced  with the  IMX 571 OSC sensor for example, even with NB filters no less, I think quite a few imagers will decide to look no further.

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  • 2 weeks later...

At last, the incoming IMX492 and IMX571 monochrome sensors should cover most dedicated imagers (and the monster IMX455 monochrome sensor).

What more do we need?

(Okay, the high quality NB filters are almost obscene in pricing, but that's another story)

 

N.F.

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  • 11 months later...
On 20/11/2020 at 19:37, Adam J said:

It wont be £1500, I would guess at slightly cheaper than an ASI1600mm pro, something in the £1100 range. But I am expecting it to be released in any case, just not till the end of 2021 at the earliest. When it is ill be buying one.

Adam

SO I CALLED IT!

Its the end of 2021 and just take a look at what SONY has released!

https://www.sony-semicon.co.jp/products/common/pdf/IMX533CLK_Flyer_ver10.pdf

https://www.sony-semicon.co.jp/e/products/IS/industry/product.html

A MONO version of the IMX533 sensor, just as I promissed you all back in November 2020.

EVERYTHING IS NOT GOING OSC.....

:)

#Smug

Adam

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13 minutes ago, Adam J said:

SO I CALLED IT!

Its the end of 2021 and just take a look at what SONY has released!

https://www.sony-semicon.co.jp/products/common/pdf/IMX533CLK_Flyer_ver10.pdf

https://www.sony-semicon.co.jp/e/products/IS/industry/product.html

A MONO version of the IMX533 sensor, just as I promissed you all back in November 2020.

EVERYTHING IS NOT GOING OSC.....

:)

#Smug

Adam

You will have to buy one too then to fulfil the prophecy 👍🏻

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I’d disagree with a £1100 price point as similar market mono versions are typically (ie. ASI294) around £500 over their OSC sisters. I’d expect ivo £1400 even with a small sensor as it’s much improved technically over the 1600 which is getting long in the tooth now. 
The exception seems to be for the high end 2600 series which are both £4k which sort of tells its own story. 

Edited by PadrePeace
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Really cannot see the argument for everything going OSC. Much better quality data to work with from mono with decent narrowband filters, I live in Bortle 5/6 zone and the gradients in OSC imaging are just horrible. You have also great flexibility with the imaging, OSC general results (especially with light pollution filter) do not show a lot to be desired. Ofcourse if you are in B1/B2 zone, then by all means, I too would be with OSC and some SCTs with hyperstar. 

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