The Future of Imaging - Is everything heading OSC

[Whirlwind]

1 hour ago, tomato said:

It is worth noting that the IKI Observatory M16 NB data that folks have been admiring on SGL was taken with a SX CCD, so if you have the skies, there is plenty of life left in the old format yet.

I think mature would be a better way of describing CCD technology.  It still has advantages over CMOS (more stable, for the avoidance of doubt necessarily lower noise) and is still readily used in scientific applications.  The real issue for CCDs is that the consumer demand for CCDs is decreasing.  Most CMOS have way better download speeds because each pixel downloads individually and the consumer market is moving more towards being able to take high speed videos (webcams/cameras/mobile phones etc) where there is usually sufficient signal that a bit of walking noise is not a huge issue.  Hence manufacturers are moving away from CCD except for the specialists (e.g. e2v etc).  They are still fine for Astronomy (and still have some advantages for deep sky) but it largely now depends on how long Sony think it will continue to be profitable to keep a CCD line going.

[tomato]

1 hour ago, Adam J said:

Thats as much to do with it being 40 hours of data as it is anything else I think.

Yeah, you do need the skies for that.

[susan-parker]

23 hours ago, Whirlwind said:

...  Most CMOS have way better download speeds ...  Hence manufacturers are moving away from CCD except for the specialists (e.g. e2v etc).  They are still fine for Astronomy (and still have some advantages for deep sky) but it largely now depends on how long Sony think it will continue to be profitable to keep a CCD line going.

Typically, as I am in a Bortle 8 zone, I am imaging at 2.5 seconds for L, 8 seconds for RGB, and 30 seconds for NB. At these shorter exposures download speeds become an issue. Also for focusing, although one might be able to define a smaller ROI if the camera supports it.

[susan-parker]

When I am acquiring a NB series I try to run off a quick LRGB set at the end of the main run. If there isn't time, then no matter.

[Adam J]

So they have announced a ASI294mm pro now, really think that puts a final nail in the coffin of this thread to be honest.

 

Edited September 12, 2020 by Adam J

[Dinglem]

5 minutes ago, Adam J said:

So they have announced a ASI294mm pro now, really think that puts a final nail in the coffin of this thread to be honest. 

 

@Adam Jwhere have you seen that announcement?

[pete_l]

32 minutes ago, Dinglem said:

@Adam Jwhere have you seen that announcement?

It appeared on CN a week ago with some test images. A couple of Italian sellers have it on pre-order, but with no price shown. They reckon available in October.

[Adam J]

I would be willing to bet that within 24 months you are going to see a mono version of the IMX533 released by Sony also. It tends to be the pattern with the smaller sensors to release a mono version once they have sufficient stocks and have filled initial orders for the OSC version. 

Edited September 12, 2020 by Adam J

[CCD-Freak]

3 hours ago, Adam J said:

I would be willing to bet that within 24 months you are going to see a mono version of the IMX533 released by Sony also. It tends to be the pattern with the smaller sensors to release a mono version once they have sufficient stocks and have filled initial orders for the OSC version. 

I sure hope so....I love my ASI-533MCP and a mono version would be great for merging color and narrow band images.

 

John
CCD-Freak
WD5IKX

[kirkster501]

I have pulled the trigger on a QHY268C and I await the mono version of this to add to it.  I like very much what I see of this camera.

[kirkster501]

... I need to get my head around gain and offset in a CMOS context and need to add an OAG to it.  Speaking to Bern about it tomorrow.

[DaveS]

I might be going the same way. Been in contact with Rupert at Astrograph (Bought a frightening amount of kit from him lol) about back focus etc and possible lead time for the mono version.

Also been working out at set of spacers and adaptors for my 80mm f/4.4. will likely order from TS.

[DaveS]

1 hour ago, kirkster501 said:

... I need to get my head around gain and offset in a CMOS context and need to add an OAG to it.  Speaking to Bern about it tomorrow.

This might be of help.

[kirkster501]

4 hours ago, DaveS said:

This might be of help.

Thanks for that mate.

[gingergeek]

I just got off the phone with Bern, always great to talk to him and he always finds time to help you. I just placed my order, they are selling extremely well apparently. Now I need to look into an OAG and connectors as a future purchase.

Thanks for your time Bern - always a pleasure !

Edited September 14, 2020 by gingergeek

[tomato]

Well, I have also succumbed to the lure of the QHY 268c, and Bern clinched it by saying he had 3 unsold ones coming in on Monday.

So that's next year's astro budget spent as well, but it should work nicely with the RASA 8. 

[AstroPhil]

Well I just pulled the trigger on an Atik 460EX mono.... and am looking foward to getting into Narrowband in due course!

[2STAR]

On 29/05/2020 at 20:28, Northernlight said:

Hi All,

My beloved QSI 683 recently died and is being sent away to see if it can be repaired, but expecting the worst i started researching new camera to replace the QSI.  Looking at the camera market with a modest budget of around £2000 - i noted that the choices for mono camera were a bit limited.  The most obvious choice for a chip with near identical size to the QSI 683 was the ASI1600MM Pro - which i know is a very popular choice, but i'm weary of buying this camera as i know it's end of life.

I spoke to Astro Reseller Ianking about the choices, and he recommended the SX Trius 694 which looks like a great mono chip with very low noise - but it's a much smaller chip than the QSI. With no direct replacement in sight for the ASI 1600 - we talked about the future of camera and Ian said the in the future he expected to see less & less mono camera and that most new camera would most probably be OSC.

So this got me wondering about the future of Narowband imaging - Where does this leave us if most new sensors will be OSC ?

Modest Budget of £2,000 lol, wish my budget was that Modest.

eric

[susan-parker]

The QHY268M mono should be here soon(ish)
It will be a lot better than the Panasonic 4/3rd sensor cameras such as the ASI1600, and it should be ballpark for your stated budget price.

[billhinge]

is the QHY600M PH better than the QHY268M? 61MP mono

https://www.baader-planetarium.com/en/cameras/qhyccd-kameras/cooled-cmos-cameras/qhy600-m-bsi-cooled-scientific-kamera.html

https://www.qhyccd.com/index.php?m=content&c=index&a=show&catid=94&id=55

 

 

[DaveS]

Depends on what you mean by "better". The pixel size is the same, so are (At least to a first approximation) the other specs, DR, FW etc. The main difference is the sensor size, which will run you into other questions over filter size (50mm unmounted) and whether your 'scope will cover the 43mm image circle with enough to spare for vignetting and edge aberrations.

[Adam J]

3 hours ago, DaveS said:

Depends on what you mean by "better". The pixel size is the same, so are (At least to a first approximation) the other specs, DR, FW etc. The main difference is the sensor size, which will run you into other questions over filter size (50mm unmounted) and whether your 'scope will cover the 43mm image circle with enough to spare for vignetting and edge aberrations.

I would think it will cost nearly twice as much as the asi1600mm pro so it's not really in the same market segment. 

[DaveS]

Well no, but the question was about the QHY600 vs the QHY268, nothing about the ASI1600.

[billhinge]

15 hours ago, Adam J said:

I would think it will cost nearly twice as much as the asi1600mm pro so it's not really in the same market segment. 

and the rest 😀, about 4475 euro from the link I posted 

[Adam J]

3 hours ago, billhinge said:

and the rest 😀, about 4475 euro from the link I posted 

I am referring to the QHY268m  /  ASI2600pro mono. 

Edited October 6, 2020 by Adam J