85° Masuyama's ?

[mikeDnight]

  I'm really curious about the 16mm and 10mm Masuyama eyepieces and have lingered over the buy button on several occasions. I have no doubt that the on axis performance will be top notch, but having never had experience of this five element design with an 85° apparent field, I was wondering if anyone has had a chance to look through either of the above? How would the 16mm & 10mm 85° apparent field perform in an F8 refractor? Should I buy one and see??😨

Edited May 26, 2020 by mikeDnight

[Alan White]

You going widefield Mike, really 😉 🤣

As a more dignified comment, I can see the appeal of these.
and the price is not to steep at all.

Looking online as FLO have no images of the shorter FL, very tidy looking,
similar size to the ES 68 degree 16mm, but with a wider field and Masuyama from Japan of course.

Go on Mike, you know you want one, don't you.......

 

Edited May 26, 2020 by Alan White

[John]

They must be good - they are labelled not just as "Premium" but "Ultra Premium"

[Alan White]

You may want a read on another forum....hmmm.

https://astronomyconnect.com/forums/threads/16mm-masuyama-eps.4625/

 

 

[mikeDnight]

I want one even more after seeing that pic. Thanks Alan! And I'd missed the "Ultra Premium" John. Thanks for that too! 

[John]

Here is a link to a report on the 26mm 85 degree Masuyama. Hmmmm:

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/568710-masuyama-26mm-85-degree-eyepiece/?p=7933492

Not ultra premium edge correction by the sound of it.

The only wide Masuyama's that I've tried, as mentioned in another thread, were Celestron Axiom / WA-70's and the edge correction in those was not too good.

Maybe their strengths lie in other directions?

[mikeDnight]

That's what I thought the problem would be John. I thought the edge would start to give a little, but the 16 and 10mm are cute, and I wouldn't want the 2" versions anyway. So....... 

[John]

I can't see the point in paying for that additional AFoV if it's not well corrected

 

 

 

[Timebandit]

48 minutes ago, John said:

They must be good - they are labelled not just as "Premium" but "Ultra Premium"

 

They missed a bit of a marketing exercise there. Should of put "Turbo" on them 😀

 

 

 

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

I thought 85 degrees would be a tall order for 5 lenses in 3 groups. It seems I was right

[bomberbaz]

As John says if the fov is sloppy as you go out and according to CN thread, this is on a relatively slow ish scope, what's the point. 

The Vixen SSW eyepieces have had some pretty good reviews and seem a far better option at the money your considering spending. 

Also worth considering are the Morpheus but a little less fov so maybe edging away from what your after here.

Or push the budget a little more and get a nagler, you know your buying quality at that price.

Steve

[mikeDnight]

 Other options may have a better edge, and I used to love Vixen's older designs, but the modern incarnations are both ugly and cheap looking, as well as over priced; I've had the superb 17.5mm Morpheus and liked it a lot, but after prolonged sweeping I found it gave me eye strain; and after having pretty much all the Nagler's at some stage or another, I don't want to return to anything Televue. On axis sharpness is far more important than width of field for me, but im just wondering how distracting the edge on the Masuyama would be compared to the 52° version, so may be the only way to find out if they suit me is to buy one and see.

[Alan White]

That's a bold move Mike,
it's like its cloudy outside and you cannot stop yourself!

[paulastro]

Mike.  If you do buy one to see how good they are, I'd be happy to arrange for you  to try my 17.5mm Morpheus so you can compare it directly to see if you have made a mistake or not.  You'll have to wait until social distancing is eased though. And before you ask, no, I can't post it to you.  I may not get it back 🙂.

Edited May 26, 2020 by paulastro

[John]

55 minutes ago, mikeDnight said:

 Other options may have a better edge, and I used to love Vixen's older designs, but the modern incarnations are both ugly and cheap looking, as well as over priced; I've had the superb 17.5mm Morpheus and liked it a lot, but after prolonged sweeping I found it gave me eye strain; and after having pretty much all the Nagler's at some stage or another, I don't want to return to anything Televue.....

You are clearly in search of "something different" Mike

Most people would be very pleased to own and use any of the above though.

 

[mikeDnight]

29 minutes ago, John said:

You are clearly in search of "something different" Mike

Most people would be very pleased to own and use any of the above though.

 

I know I'm odd John. I'm just glad I have psychiatric  help available from SGL!

[bomberbaz]

Something different Mike, try these. Nikon  There are retailers but this is off a quick search.

I own the bigger brothers to these, quite expensive but if they are anything like the HW 17 & 12.5, you won't have to worry about it being well corrected across the fov.

Edited May 26, 2020 by bomberbaz

[bomberbaz]

Found now, 395$ should be around £350 plus postage.

https://www.apm-telescopes.de/en/eyepieces/58-74-wide-angle/other/nikon-nav-sw-10mm-eyepiece.html

[Timebandit]

2 hours ago, mikeDnight said:

I know I'm odd John. I'm just glad I have psychiatric  help available from SGL!

 

No point looking for Psychiatric help on SGL. We will just make your condition worse 😀

 

Sometimes if you have an Itch for something, then you just need to buy it and try it for yourself , only way to find out is with your own eyes.

 

 

 

 

[paulastro]

Have you tried Ramsden eyepieces Mike?  🤣.  

I can remember the time when an Orthoscopic was beyond the means of any astronomers I knew at the time, they cost four guineas each and were highly desirable.

I think  time is best spent appreciating the things we have and enjoying them rather than always looking to replace them with  something 'better' and often more expensive.

 

Edited May 26, 2020 by paulastro

[Louis D]

I think the appeal of these Masuyamas is that they are ultra fine polished, positive only designs.  I've yet to find a negative-positive design that's as sharp in the center as a purely positive only design.  Some come close, but they always seem to give up a little bit to a fine positive only design.

I guess if you're happy with a very sharp 42° image surrounded by another 21° of lesser sharpness on all sides for context, then these eyepieces might be for you.  I would think that a tracking mount would be essential to enjoy these so you wouldn't have to watch your object distort as it made its way across the field of view.

[mikeDnight]

Thanks Louis,

I've just ordered a 5mm Pseudo in the form of an Ultrascopic from ENS Optical, which should sooth the itch for a while. If only these 85° were 50° or even 40°, id have probably bitten long before now. Its interesting what you say about the purely positive design. Im going to have to read up in more depth about these and similar designs. ☺

[johnturley]

16 hours ago, bomberbaz said:

Found now, 395$ should be around £350 plus postage.

https://www.apm-telescopes.de/en/eyepieces/58-74-wide-angle/other/nikon-nav-sw-10mm-eyepiece.html

That's more money than the equivalent Nagler T6, do you think that it will be better.

John 

[bomberbaz]

I have a nagler 26mm and a nikon nav hw 17 and the one my hand always goes to is the nikon.

Also I have read reports of comparisons between the ethos and nikon with the nikon always winning. A lot say just wins but I would say that if it was my eyepiece getting "just" beaten.  I haven't verified this but the Nikon does have better ER, apparently more comfortable to use and have better contrast. I am looking forward to having a shootout at some point. 

[Timebandit]

1 hour ago, mikeDnight said:

Thanks Louis,

I've just ordered a 5mm Pseudo in the form of an Ultrascopic from ENS Optical, which should sooth the itch for a while. If only these 85° were 50° or even 40°, id have probably bitten long before now. Its interesting what you say about the purely positive design. Im going to have to read up in more depth about these and similar designs. ☺

 

That's it Mike, scratch that itch . At least you will know through your own eyes if this eyepiece suits your own individual needs and requirements. And if its been purchased used then its not going to break the bank.